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  • #105282
    Member
    swarfendor437

      So what led me here? I have installed on old D600 Latitudes before disposing (Antix 17 I think). But the real reason for moving away from all the other distributions stems from this enlightening web page: https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2023/03/02/363/
      It wasn’t my first choice as I wanted to explore systems that were not only free of systemd but also Pulse Audio, the inventor of both, surprise, surprise is now employed by Microsoft (who are also now getting their foot in the BSD door by offering OpenBSD on their Azure marketplace!). I have tried Venom Linux to no avail when it comes to installing the DE’s other than the default OpenBox it comes with. I thoroughly enjoyed playing with GhostBSD, which I also enjoyed but could not get the Canon TS-8151 to print (something I still need to sort out in Antix, but hopefully the Canon drivers will sort this out. Have tried Cups having already installed Gutenprint, but getting the same issue as I had with GhostBSD – the printer makes an indication it is going to make the test print, gets to 49% in CUPS web page then dies (screenshot attached). Just got rid of pulse and bluez as no bluetooth on this desktop! Thanks for a great experience so far. Enjoyed installing SoftMaker Office 2021 .deb file by just dragging to the terminal following your advice page on installing applications not available in Antix. Great thread.
      I should add in respect of the printer, CUPS reports that the user is ‘withheld’ – does this indicate I am not a member of the ‘print group’? I made sure I was in GhostBSD but still had the same issue.

      Just installed the Canon Linux driver and all working and all good! Yay!

      • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by swarfendor437.
      • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by swarfendor437.
      Attachments:
      #105236
      Moderator
      Brian Masinick

        Here with our friendly companion, Legacy OS 2023, a reconfigured version of antiX with a distinctly different appearance with the same stable software we all love.

        Information from the inxi tool written by my pal h2:

        inxi -b
        System:
          Host: LegacyOS Kernel: 4.9.0-279-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64
            Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.3 Distro: Legacyos-2023_x64
        Machine:
          Type: Laptop System: Dell product: Inspiron 5558 v: N/A
            serial: <superuser required>
          Mobo: Dell model: 086DKN v: A00 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: Dell
            v: A18 date: 12/30/2019
        Battery:
          ID-1: BAT0 charge: 30.1 Wh (100.0%) condition: 30.1/41.4 Wh (72.6%)
        CPU:
          Info: dual core Intel Core i7-5500U [MT MCP] speed (MHz): avg: 2362
            min/max: 500/3000
        Graphics:
          Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 5500 driver: i915 v: kernel
          Device-2: NVIDIA GK208BM [GeForce 920M] driver: N/A
          Device-3: Suyin Integrated_Webcam_HD type: USB driver: uvcvideo
          Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
            unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: swrast gpu: i915 resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
          API: OpenGL v: 4.5 Mesa 20.3.5 renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 11.0.1 256 bits)
        Network:
          Device-1: Intel Wireless 3160 driver: iwlwifi
          Device-2: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet driver: r8169
          Device-3: Intel Bluetooth wireless interface type: USB driver: btusb
        Drives:
          Local Storage: total: 447.13 GiB used: 10.15 GiB (2.3%)
        Info:
          Processes: 176 Uptime: 2m Memory: 7.77 GiB used: 507.1 MiB (6.4%)
          Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.26

        --
        Brian Masinick

        #105043
        Forum Admin
        rokytnji

          Finally. Finished re-erecting blown down fence.

          Body gonna take few days to get the kinks out. ON the NUC box today.

          harry@scooter:~
          $ curl wttr.in/pecos
          Weather report: pecos
          
                \   /     Sunny
                 .-.      +87(82) °F     
              ― (   ) ―   ↗ 13 mph       
                 

          -’ 9 mi
          / \ 0.0 in `

          harry@scooter:~
          $ inxi -Fxz
          System:
            Kernel: 5.10.153-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
              v: 10.2.1 Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.3 Distro: antiX-22_x64-full Grup Yorum 18
              October 2022 base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
          Machine:
            Type: Desktop Mobo: Intel model: NUC5i3RYB v: H41000-505
              serial: <superuser required> UEFI-[Legacy]: Intel
              v: RYBDWi35.86A.0361.2016.1202.1005 date: 12/02/2016
          CPU:
            Info: dual core model: Intel Core i3-5010U bits: 64 type: MT MCP
              arch: Broadwell rev: 4 cache: L1: 128 KiB L2: 512 KiB L3: 3 MiB
            Speed (MHz): avg: 1995 high: 1997 min/max: 500/2000 cores: 1: 1993 2: 1997
              3: 1996 4: 1996 bogomips: 16760
            Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
          Graphics:
            Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 5500 driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-8
              bus-ID: 00:02.0
            Display: server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
              unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: iris gpu: i915 resolution: 1360x768~60Hz
            API: OpenGL v: 4.6 Mesa 20.3.5 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 5500 (BDW
              GT2) direct-render: Yes
          Audio:
            Device-1: Intel Broadwell-U Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
              bus-ID: 00:03.0
            Device-2: Intel Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio
              driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
            API: ALSA v: k5.10.153-antix.1-amd64-smp status: kernel-api
            Server-1: PulseAudio v: 14.2 status: off
          Network:
            Device-1: Intel Ethernet I218-V driver: e1000e v: kernel port: 2080
              bus-ID: 00:19.0
            IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
            Device-2: Intel Wireless 7265 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus-ID: 02:00.0
            IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
          Bluetooth:
            Device-1: Cambridge Silicon Radio Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode) type: USB
              driver: btusb v: 0.8 bus-ID: 2-4:4
            Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 1 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 2.1
              lmp-v: 4.0
            Device-2: Intel Bluetooth wireless interface type: USB driver: btusb
              v: 0.8 bus-ID: 2-7:6
            Report: ID: hci1 rfk-id: 2 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 2.1
              lmp-v: 4.2
          Drives:
            Local Storage: total: 961.33 GiB used: 323.45 GiB (33.6%)
            ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Transcend model: TS32GMTS800 size: 29.82 GiB
            ID-2: /dev/sdb type: USB vendor: Toshiba model: External USB 3.0
              size: 931.51 GiB
          Partition:
            ID-1: / size: 27.69 GiB used: 6.69 GiB (24.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda3
          Swap:
            ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 1.01 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%)
              dev: /dev/sda2
          Sensors:
            System Temperatures: cpu: 37.5 C mobo: 63.0 C
            Fan Speeds (RPM): fan-1: 0 fan-2: 3443
            Power: 12v: N/A 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.33 vbat: 3.15
          Info:
            Processes: 161 Uptime: 13m Memory: 3.72 GiB used: 1.18 GiB (31.7%)
            Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 Packages: 1603 Shell: Bash
            v: 5.1.4 inxi: 3.3.26
          

          Tired.

          Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
          Not all who Wander are Lost.
          I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

          Linux Registered User # 475019
          How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

          #104904
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick

            re: https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/what-are-you-here-with-today/page/87/#post-104847

            pinxi -Jazy1 --vs
            pinxi 3.3.26-16 (2023-04-16)
            USB:
              Hub-1: 1-0:1
                info: hi-speed hub with single TT
                ports: 4
                rev: 2.0
                  speed: 480 Mb/s
                chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                class-ID: 0900
                Device-1: 1-2:2
                  info: KYE Systems (Mouse Systems) Trackbar Emotion
                  type: mouse
                  driver: hid-generic,usbhid
                  interfaces: 1
                  rev: 1.0
                    speed: 1.5 Mb/s
                  power: 100mA
                  chip-ID: 0458:0007
                  class-ID: 0301
                Device-2: 1-3:3
                  info: Chicony HP TrueVision HD Camera
                  type: video
                  driver: uvcvideo
                  interfaces: 2
                  rev: 2.0
                    speed: 480 Mb/s
                  power: 500mA
                  chip-ID: 04f2:b6f1
                  class-ID: 0e02
                  serial: <filter>
                Device-3: 1-4:4
                  info: Realtek Bluetooth Radio
                  type: bluetooth
                  driver: btusb
                  interfaces: 2
                  rev: 1.0
                    speed: 12 Mb/s
                  power: 500mA
                  chip-ID: 0bda:385a
                  class-ID: e001
                  serial: <filter>
              Hub-2: 2-0:1
                info: super-speed hub
                ports: 2
                rev: 3.1
                  speed: 10 Gb/s
                  lanes: 1
                  mode: 3.2 gen-1x2
                chip-ID: 1d6b:0003
                class-ID: 0900
              Hub-3: 3-0:1
                info: hi-speed hub with single TT
                ports: 4
                rev: 2.0
                  speed: 480 Mb/s
                chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                class-ID: 0900
              Hub-4: 4-0:1
                info: super-speed hub
                ports: 2
                rev: 3.1
                  speed: 10 Gb/s
                  lanes: 1
                  mode: 3.2 gen-1x2
                chip-ID: 1d6b:0003
                class-ID: 0900

            --
            Brian Masinick

            #104730
            Member
            flyingchap

              Hi Punranger, thank you for responding so quickly.

              Re kernel alternatives — no I haven’t, but only because you’re already over my head with that, a little: I’m pretty experienced with Linux in general, and on a range of distros, but I have always “swerved” ‘messing with kernels’ as I’ve always assumed that would take me into deep territory I’m not familiar with and would soon break something.

              **BUT am happy to try it if you can describe how to do it ? By all means please tell me the commands. [ As I mentoned I have Antix 19 on hand on same machine, in case relevant.]

              Re you mentioning experts, any mouse-driver specialist wisdom would also be appreciated — some of the debate in that ARCH forum I mentioned, had very knowledgeable types seeming to be using obscure commands to read real-time event logs of the mouse drivers and the like so see what they’re doing.. quite deep stuff. I don’t know if all distrols handle mice the same way, or if kernel differences can mean whole different driver setups. There seemed to be talk there of default drivers or overriding installer drivers etc and config associated, but as I said they aborted the dialogue before it was resolved. Sounded V similar to what I’m seeing.

              Just to add one bit of detail – at the heart of this effect, seems to be a “lag on mouse command”, in that as well as mouse movement variability, I find the left-click always seems to contain a small but significant, DELAY: if I click to (for example) put cursor on a given row of a document – it will always go there, but about ~~ 0.8 sec AFTER I click, not when I click. It’s so consistent that I’ve now started to autoadjust to it an instinctively “wait a moment” after such a moment before typing. SAME, when clicking to move focus – to move from a Console window to an application window for example. And all this happens on a nice fast i5 (which if i reboot to Antix 19 is PERFECT).

              IN THE MEANWHILE – output from the command you mentioned – thank you for that I’ve not met that command before..:

              $ inxi -zrv7
              System:
                Kernel: 4.9.0-326-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
                  v: 10.2.1 Desktop: IceWM v: 3.0.1 dm: slimski v: 1.5.0
                  Distro: antiX-22_x64-base Grup Yorum 19 October 2022
                  base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
              Machine:
                Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 3680FBG v: ThinkPad X201
                  serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
                Mobo: LENOVO model: 3680FBG serial: <superuser required> BIOS: LENOVO
                  v: 6QET64WW (1.34 ) date: 02/24/2011
              Battery:
                ID-1: BAT0 charge: 2.5 Wh (100.0%) condition: 2.5/62.2 Wh (4.1%)
                  volts: 12.5 min: 11.1 model: SANYO 42T4835 type: Li-ion serial: <filter>
                  status: N/A
              Memory:
                RAM: total: 3.73 GiB used: 980.4 MiB (25.7%)
                RAM Report:
                  permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
              CPU:
                Info: dual core model: Intel Core i5 M 520 bits: 64 type: MT MCP
                  smt: enabled arch: Westmere rev: 5 cache: L1: 128 KiB L2: 512 KiB L3: 3 MiB
                Speed (MHz): avg: 1699 high: 2400 min/max: 1199/2400 boost: enabled
                  cores: 1: 1199 2: 1199 3: 2400 4: 1999 bogomips: 19151
                Flags: acpi aes aperfmperf apic arat arch_perfmon bts clflush cmov
                  constant_tsc cx16 cx8 de ds_cpl dtes64 dtherm dts ept est flexpriority
                  flush_l1d fpu fxsr ht ibpb ibrs ida kaiser lahf_lm lm mca mce mmx monitor
                  msr mtrr nonstop_tsc nopl nx pae pat pbe pcid pclmulqdq pdcm pebs pge pni
                  popcnt pse pse36 rdtscp rep_good sep smx ss ssbd sse sse2 sse4_1 sse4_2
                  ssse3 stibp syscall tm tm2 tpr_shadow tsc vme vmx vnmi vpid xtopology
                  xtpr
              Graphics:
                Device-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics vendor: Lenovo
                  driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen5.75 ports: active: LVDS-1,VGA-1
                  empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1 bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0046 class-ID: 0300
                Device-2: Lenovo Integrated Webcam type: USB driver: uvcvideo
                  bus-ID: 1-1.6:5 chip-ID: 17ef:4816 class-ID: 0e02
                Display: server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: intel gpu: i915
                  display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
                Screen-1: 0 s-res: 3200x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 846x285mm (33.31x11.22")
                  s-diag: 893mm (35.15")
                Monitor-1: LVDS-1 mapped: LVDS1 pos: primary,left model: Lenovo 0x4011
                  res: 1280x800 hz: 60 dpi: 125 size: 261x163mm (10.28x6.42")
                  diag: 308mm (12.1") modes: 1280x800
                Monitor-2: VGA-1 mapped: VGA1 pos: right model: AOC F22 serial: <filter>
                  res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 102 size: 476x268mm (18.74x10.55")
                  diag: 537mm (21.1") modes: max: 1920x1080 min: 640x480
                OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics (ILK) v: 2.1 Mesa 20.3.5
                  direct render: Yes
              Audio:
                Device-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Lenovo 5
                  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:3b56
                  class-ID: 0403
                Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k4.9.0-326-antix.1-amd64-smp running: yes
                Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 14.2 running: no
              Network:
                Device-1: Intel 82577LM Gigabit Network vendor: Lenovo driver: e1000e
                  v: 3.2.6-k port: 1820 bus-ID: 00:19.0 chip-ID: 8086:10ea class-ID: 0200
                IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
                Device-2: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 driver: N/A bus-ID: 02:00.0
                  chip-ID: 8086:4239 class-ID: 0280
                Device-3: TP-Link TL-WN823N v2/v3 [Realtek RTL8192EU] type: USB
                  driver: rtl8192eu bus-ID: 1-1.1:3 chip-ID: 2357:0109 class-ID: 0000
                  serial: <filter>
                IF: wlan1 state: up mac: <filter>
                IP v4: <filter> scope: global broadcast: <filter>
                IP v6: <filter> scope: link
                WAN IP: <filter>
              Bluetooth:
                Message: No bluetooth data found.
              Logical:
                Message: No logical block device data found.
              RAID:
                Message: No RAID data found.
              Drives:
                Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 297.72 GiB (63.9%)
                ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST500LT012-1DG142 size: 465.76 GiB
                  speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter> rev: SDM1 scheme: MBR
                Message: No optical or floppy data found.
              Partition:
                ID-1: / size: 91.11 GiB used: 17.59 GiB (19.3%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda7
                  label: rootantiX22 uuid: 320500d3-4234-46ac-bce0-480f6bd19335
                ID-2: /media/240GB size: 219.9 GiB used: 198.02 GiB (90.1%) fs: ext4
                  dev: /dev/sda4 label: 240GB uuid: dcca6886-267c-4543-be7e-e0ca4fb866a7
                ID-3: /media/Windows size: 83.06 GiB used: 82.11 GiB (98.9%) fs: ntfs
                  dev: /dev/sda2 label: Windows uuid: B272B58272B54C3B
                ID-4: /media/mikeh/dell830_DATA size: 245.59 GiB used: 241.07 GiB (98.2%)
                  fs: cifs dev: /dev/DELLac03_DATA
              Swap:
                ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 1.85 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -1
                  dev: /dev/sda6 label: N/A uuid: e3899b21-925c-4c3d-827a-73b0dab729d5
              Unmounted:
                ID-1: /dev/sda1 size: 5.85 GiB fs: ntfs label: System
                  uuid: ECFCB367FCB32B2A
                ID-2: /dev/sda3 size: 1 KiB fs: <superuser required> label: N/A uuid: N/A
                ID-3: /dev/sda5 size: 58.28 GiB fs: ext4 label: N/A
                  uuid: a279d843-62f3-45a8-ba93-160d71a20732
              USB:
                Hub-1: 1-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 3 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s
                  chip-ID: 1d6b:0002 class-ID: 0900
                Hub-2: 1-1:2 info: Intel Integrated Rate Matching Hub ports: 6 rev: 2.0
                  speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 8087:0020 class-ID: 0900
                Device-1: 1-1.1:3 info: TP-Link TL-WN823N v2/v3 [Realtek RTL8192EU]
                  type: Network driver: rtl8192eu interfaces: 1 rev: 2.1 speed: 480 Mb/s
                  power: 500mA chip-ID: 2357:0109 class-ID: 0000 serial: <filter>
                Device-2: 1-1.3:4
                  info: Upek Biometric Touchchip/Touchstrip Fingerprint Sensor
                  type: <vendor specific> driver: N/A interfaces: 1 rev: 1.0 speed: 12 Mb/s
                  power: 100mA chip-ID: 147e:2016 class-ID: 0000
                Device-3: 1-1.6:5 info: Lenovo Integrated Webcam type: Video
                  driver: uvcvideo interfaces: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s power: 200mA
                  chip-ID: 17ef:4816 class-ID: 0e02
                Hub-3: 2-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 3 rev: 2.0
                  speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002 class-ID: 0900
                Hub-4: 2-1:2 info: Intel Integrated Rate Matching Hub ports: 8 rev: 2.0
                  speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 8087:0020 class-ID: 0900
                Device-1: 2-1.2:3 info: HP HP 1000 USB Optical Mouse type: Mouse
                  driver: hid-generic,usbhid interfaces: 1 rev: 2.0 speed: 1.5 Mb/s
                  power: 100mA chip-ID: 03f0:2a41 class-ID: 0301
              Sensors:
                System Temperatures: cpu: 67.0 C mobo: 0.0 C
                Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 3494
              Repos:
                Packages: apt: 1506
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/alessandro-strada-ubuntu-ppa-bionic.list
                  1: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/alessandro-strada/ppa/ubuntu xenial main
                  2: deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/alessandro-strada/ppa/ubuntu xenial main
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
                  1: deb http://mirrors.rit.edu/mxlinux/mx-packages/antix/bullseye/ bullseye main nosystemd nonfree
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bullseye-backports.list
                  1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-backports main contrib non-free
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
                  1: deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
                  1: deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
                  2: deb http://security.debian.org/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
                  1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
                Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/teams.list
                  1: deb [arch=amd64] https://packages.microsoft.com/repos/ms-teams stable main
                No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
              Info:
                Processes: 181 Uptime: 1h 15m wakeups: 3 Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 runlevel: 5
                default: 5 Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 alt: 10 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.4
                running-in: roxterm inxi: 3.3.19
              
              mikeh@antix22-X201:~

              THANK YOU – ALL ADVICE MUCH APPRECIATED.

              #104722

              In reply to: Window of App Select

              Member
              Robin

                I tried on two PC’s(laptop and desktop).
                But sadnely nothing changed in my system environments.

                This is really strange. For me the ampersand method works on two different hardware machines and two different antiX versions, two different kernels:

                Without ampersand, shot taken after moving around the windows:
                app-select

                Ampersand added, shot taken after moving around the windows:
                app-select with ampersand

                So maybe this is a question of localisation? My testings were done on „de” localised systems, and the ampersand works also on a live system booted to English language. So the question is:

                Does the issue show up for you still when adding the ampersand on an antiX 22 or 23 full, live booted to English language?

                Did you restart app-select after modifying the line in its config?

                Another chance is to modify the line as follows:

                Open in leafpad|coproc leafpad %p
                

                This should be enough already, but:

                Since app-select wouldn’t accept the default bash builtin „coproc” for some strange reason, if it is filed literally instead of the ampersand, you’ll need to apply additionally the following dirty hack:

                Create a text file /usr/lib/app-select/plugins/coproc and enter the following lines. Make sure to have an additional empty line at the end of the file.

                #!/bin/bash
                coproc "$@"
                
                

                Then set it’s permissions the way they are needed:
                sudo chmod 755 '/usr/lib/app-select/plugins/coproc'

                (711 is NOT sufficient, on contrary to what the info text found in app-select.conf reads, the file isn’t executed with 711 for some strange reason)

                This script will simply hand over the coproc instruction to bash, a simple task app-select should have done already on its own.

                Make sure app-select was closed and restarted completely after these modificatons.

                The Ampersand and the literal coproc method do work both for me on the two antiX machines, antiX 22 and antiX 23:

                inxi…

                System:
                  Kernel: 5.19.0-0.deb11.2-686-pae arch: i686 bits: 32 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1
                    parameters: lang=de_DE tz=Europe/Berlin quiet splasht disable=lxF
                  Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.1 wm: Blackbox dm: slimski v: 1.5.0
                    Distro: antiX-21_386-full Grup Yorum 31 October 2021 base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
                Machine:
                  Type: Other-vm? System: Notebook product: RIM2000 v: N/A serial: <superuser required>
                    Chassis: No Enclosure type: 1 serial: <superuser required>
                  Mobo: Notebook model: RIM2000 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: Phoenix v: RIM00F0A
                    date: 05/27/2005
                Battery:
                  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 60.7 Wh (100.0%) condition: 60.7/65.1 Wh (93.2%) volts: 16.7 min: 14.8
                    model: ARIMA LI4403A type: Unknown serial: <filter> status: full
                Memory:
                  RAM: total: 1.96 GiB used: 1.33 GiB (67.7%)
                  RAM Report: permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                PCI Slots:
                  Permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                CPU:
                  Info: model: Intel Pentium M bits: 32 arch: M Dothan built: 2003-05 process: Intel 90nm
                    family: 6 model-id: 0xD (13) stepping: 8 microcode: 0x20
                  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 1 smt: <unsupported> cache: 2 MiB note: check
                  Speed (MHz): 800 min/max: 800/1733 scaling: driver: acpi-cpufreq governor: schedutil core:
                    1: 800 bogomips: 3457
                  Flags: acpi apic bts clflush cmov cpuid cx8 de dts est fpu fxsr mca mce mmx msr mtrr nx pae
                    pbe pge pse pti sep ss sse sse2 tm tm2 tsc vme
                  Vulnerabilities:
                  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
                  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
                  Type: mds status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT disabled
                  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
                  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
                  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
                  Type: spec_store_bypass status: Vulnerable
                  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
                  Type: spectre_v2
                    mitigation: Retpolines, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
                  Type: srbds status: Not affected
                  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
                Graphics:
                  Device-1: NVIDIA NV43M [GeForce Go 6600] vendor: Rioworks driver: nouveau v: kernel non-free:
                    series: 304.xx status: legacy (EOL) last: release: 304.137 kernel: 4.13 xorg: 1.19 arch: Curie
                    process: 90-130nm built: 2003-13 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: LVDS-1
                    empty: TV-1,VGA-1 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0148 class-ID: 0300
                  Display: server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: nouveau unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa
                    alternate: nv gpu: nouveau display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
                  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1440x900 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 380x238mm (14.96x9.37") s-diag: 448mm (17.65")
                  Monitor-1: LVDS-1 model: Seiko Epson 0x3847 built: 2006 res: 1440x900 hz: 60 dpi: 100
                    gamma: 1.2 chroma: red: x: 0.580 y: 0.341 green: x: 0.310 y: 0.549 blue: x: 0.153 y: 0.153
                    white: x: 0.314 y: 0.329 size: 367x230mm (14.45x9.06") diag: 433mm (17.1") ratio: 16:10
                    modes: 1440x900, 1152x864, 1024x768, 800x600, 640x480, 720x400, 640x400, 640x350
                  OpenGL: renderer: NV43 v: 2.1 Mesa 20.3.5 direct render: Yes
                Audio:
                  Device-1: Intel 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW High Definition Audio vendor: Rioworks
                    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:2668 class-ID: 0403
                  Device-2: Philips s SAA7131/SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder vendor: Animation
                    driver: saa7134 v: 0, 2, 17 bus-ID: 06:03.0 chip-ID: 1131:7133 class-ID: 0480
                  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.19.0-0.deb11.2-686-pae running: yes
                Network:
                  Device-1: Marvell 88E8036 PCI-E Fast Ethernet vendor: Rioworks driver: sky2 v: 1.30 pcie: gen: 1
                    speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: 2000 bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 11ab:4351 class-ID: 0200
                  IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
                  Device-2: Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG [Calexico2] Network driver: ipw2200 v: 1.2.2kmprq
                    bus-ID: 06:08.0 chip-ID: 8086:4220 class-ID: 0280
                  IF: eth1 state: up mac: <filter>
                  IP v4: <filter> scope: global broadcast: <filter>
                  IP v6: <filter> scope: link
                  WAN IP: <filter>
                Bluetooth:
                  Message: No bluetooth data found.
                Logical:
                  Message: No logical block device data found.
                RAID:
                  Message: No RAID data found.
                Drives:
                  Local Storage: total: 151.75 GiB used: 83.79 GiB (55.2%)
                  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
                  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Seagate model: ST9100823A size: 93.16 GiB block-size:
                    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: <unknown> type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: 3.02 scheme: MBR
                  ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 type: USB vendor: Generic model: Flash Disk size: 58.59 GiB
                    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 8.01 scheme: MBR
                  SMART Message: Unknown USB bridge. Flash drive/Unsupported enclosure?
                  Optical-1: /dev/sr0 vendor: PBDS model: DVD+-RW DS-8W1P rev: BD1B
                    dev-links: cdrom,cdrw,dvd,dvdrw
                  Features: speed: 24 multisession: yes audio: yes dvd: yes rw: cd-r,cd-rw,dvd-r state: running
                Partition:
                  ID-1: /live/boot-dev raw-size: 58.54 GiB size: 57.54 GiB (98.29%) used: 9.04 GiB (15.7%)
                    fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sdb1 maj-min: 8:17 label: antiX-Live-usb
                    uuid: 862f493d-6951-444f-a3f6-734244b241e7
                  ID-2: /media/ANTIX-UEFI raw-size: 49 MiB size: 48.2 MiB (98.43%) used: 5.4 MiB (11.1%)
                    fs: vfat dev: /dev/sdb2 maj-min: 8:18 label: ANTIX-UEFI uuid: 4389-57D7
                  ID-3: /media/_daten3 raw-size: 42.48 GiB size: 41.64 GiB (98.03%) used: 34.87 GiB (83.7%)
                    fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda7 maj-min: 8:7 label: /daten3 uuid: c1bc867a-ec28-436d-831b-e47f334471ce
                  ID-4: /media/_daten4 raw-size: 3 GiB size: 2.89 GiB (96.20%) used: 2.03 GiB (70.1%) fs: ext3
                    dev: /dev/sda8 maj-min: 8:8 label: /daten4 uuid: 556a43c4-118c-4bb5-baa2-7c997faea6da
                  ID-5: /media/_home raw-size: 20 GiB size: 19.52 GiB (97.58%) used: 16.92 GiB (86.7%) fs: ext3
                    dev: /dev/sda5 maj-min: 8:5 label: /home uuid: 94021be3-c160-4166-a151-92ad72b26f9a
                  ID-6: /media/antiX raw-size: 10 GiB size: 9.74 GiB (97.45%) used: 8.11 GiB (83.3%) fs: ext4
                    dev: /dev/sda6 maj-min: 8:6 label: antiX uuid: a6852dda-0c34-4c4f-8efc-5d458cbaaeec
                  ID-7: /media/antiX-Frugal raw-size: 8 GiB size: 7.79 GiB (97.43%) used: 6.54 GiB (83.9%)
                    fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1 label: antiX-Frugal
                    uuid: 19eaea0e-493b-4007-8eff-f14aca40363f
                  ID-8: /media/sda10 raw-size: 7.51 GiB size: 7.26 GiB (96.61%) used: 5.93 GiB (81.7%) fs: ext4
                    dev: /dev/sda10 maj-min: 8:10 label: N/A uuid: 0eb91a9b-ea52-4f5b-9140-5a06f6f73d1d
                  ID-9: /mnt/192.168.178.24/Arbeitsordner on 192.168.178.24 raw-size: N/A size: 151.78 GiB
                    used: 145.05 GiB (95.6%) fs: cifs dev: /dev/Arbeitsordner
                Swap:
                  Kernel: swappiness: 10 (default 60) cache-pressure: 50 (default 100)
                  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 2.16 GiB used: 367.9 MiB (16.6%) priority: -2
                    dev: /dev/sda9 maj-min: 8:9 label: N/A uuid: 2d151628-e6f1-4e23-a8a6-7820d17b8a14
                Unmounted:
                  ID-1: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2 size: 1 KiB fs: <superuser required> label: N/A uuid: N/A
                USB:
                  Hub-1: 1-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Hub-2: 2-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Device-1: 2-2:7 info: Pixart Imaging Gaming Mouse type: Mouse,Keyboard
                    driver: hid-generic,usbhid interfaces: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 12 Mb/s power: 100mA chip-ID: 093a:2533
                    class-ID: 0300
                  Hub-3: 3-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Hub-4: 4-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 6 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Device-1: 4-3:3 info: Alcor Micro Flash Drive type: Mass Storage driver: usb-storage
                    interfaces: 1 rev: 2.1 speed: 480 Mb/s power: 200mA chip-ID: 058f:6387 class-ID: 0806
                    serial: <filter>
                Sensors:
                  System Temperatures: cpu: 68.2 C mobo: 58.0 C
                  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
                Repos:
                  Packages: apt: 1882 lib: 894
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
                    1: deb http: //ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/antix/bullseye/ bullseye main nosystemd nonfree
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bullseye-backports.list
                    1: deb http: //deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports main contrib non-free
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
                    1: deb http: //ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
                    1: deb http: //ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
                    2: deb http: //security.debian.org/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free
                  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
                Processes:
                  CPU top: 5 of 162
                  1: cpu: 26.0% command: yad pid: 3434 mem: 24.3 MiB (1.2%)
                  2: cpu: 1.5% command: app-select started by: python3 pid: 2396 mem: 47.7 MiB (2.3%)
                  3: cpu: 1.1% command: firefox-esr pid: 12989 mem: 451.1 MiB (22.4%)
                  4: cpu: 0.9% command: xorg pid: 32724 mem: 49.8 MiB (2.4%)
                  5: cpu: 0.8% command: gtkdialog pid: 3089 mem: 24.2 MiB (1.2%)
                  Memory top: 5 of 162
                  1: mem: 451.1 MiB (22.4%) command: firefox-esr pid: 12989 cpu: 1.1%
                  2: mem: 117.2 MiB (5.8%) command: firefox-esr pid: 13088 cpu: 0.0%
                  3: mem: 94.4 MiB (4.6%) command: firefox-esr pid: 15790 cpu: 0.0%
                  4: mem: 88.4 MiB (4.3%) command: firefox-esr pid: 14815 cpu: 0.0%
                  5: mem: 87.5 MiB (4.3%) command: firefox-esr pid: 13125 cpu: 0.0%
                Info:
                  Processes: 162 Uptime: 35d 19h 41m wakeups: 5 Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 runlevel: 5 default: 5
                  tool: service Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 alt: 10 Client: shell wrapper v: 5.1.4-release inxi: 3.3.19
                System:
                  Kernel: 6.1.10-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
                    parameters: lang=de_DE quiet splasht disable=lxF
                  Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.1 dm: slimski v: 1.5.0
                    Distro: antiX-23-runit_x64-full Grup Yorum 3 February 2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid
                Machine:
                  Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: P7P55-M v: Rev X.0x serial: <superuser required>
                    BIOS: American Megatrends v: 0903 date: 07/09/2010
                Battery:
                  Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech MX Keys Wireless Keyboard serial: <filter>
                    charge: Normal status: discharging
                  Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Marathon Mouse/Performance Plus M705
                    serial: <filter> charge: Normal status: discharging
                Memory:
                  RAM: total: 7.76 GiB used: 7.15 GiB (92.1%)
                  RAM Report: permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                PCI Slots:
                  Permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                CPU:
                  Info: model: Intel Core i3 540 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Westmere gen: core 1 built: 2010-11
                    process: Intel 32nm family: 6 model-id: 0x25 (37) stepping: 5 microcode: 0x2
                  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 2 tpc: 2 threads: 4 smt: enabled cache: L1: 128 KiB
                    desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB L3: 4 MiB desc: 1x4 MiB
                  Speed (MHz): avg: 1204 min/max: 1200/3067 scaling: driver: acpi-cpufreq governor: schedutil
                    cores: 1: 1204 2: 1204 3: 1204 4: 1204 bogomips: 24618
                  Flags: acpi aperfmperf apic arat arch_perfmon bts clflush cmov constant_tsc cpuid cx16 cx8 de
                    ds_cpl dtes64 dtherm dts ept est flexpriority fpu fxsr ht lahf_lm lm mca mce mmx monitor msr
                    mtrr nonstop_tsc nopl nx pae pat pbe pcid pdcm pebs pge pni popcnt pse pse36 pti rdtscp
                    rep_good sep sse sse2 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 syscall tm tm2 tpr_shadow tsc vme vmx vnmi vpid
                    xtopology xtpr
                  Vulnerabilities:
                  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled
                  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT vulnerable
                  Type: mds status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT vulnerable
                  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
                  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
                  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
                  Type: spec_store_bypass status: Vulnerable
                  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
                  Type: spectre_v2
                    mitigation: Retpolines, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
                  Type: srbds status: Not affected
                  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
                Graphics:
                  Device-1: AMD Cedar [Radeon HD 5000/6000/7350/8350 Series] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: radeon
                    v: kernel alternate: amdgpu arch: TeraScale 2 code: Evergreen process: TSMC 32-40nm
                    built: 2009-15 pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: HDMI-A-1
                    empty: DVI-I-1,VGA-1 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:68f9 class-ID: 0300
                  Display: server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded: radeon unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa
                    gpu: radeon display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
                  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 2048x1152 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 540x304mm (21.26x11.97") s-diag: 620mm (24.4")
                  Monitor-1: HDMI-A-1 mapped: HDMI-0 model: PMO S321-IQSC serial: <filter> built: 2021
                    res: 2048x1152 hz: 60 dpi: 74 gamma: 1.2 chroma: red: x: 0.655 y: 0.337 green: x: 0.322 y: 0.612
                    blue: x: 0.153 y: 0.059 white: x: 0.314 y: 0.329 size: 700x390mm (27.56x15.35")
                    diag: 801mm (31.5") ratio: 16:9 modes: 2048x1152, 1920x1200, 1920x1080, 1920x1080i, 1600x1200,
                    1680x1050, 1680x945, 1400x1050, 1600x900, 1280x1024, 1440x900, 1280x960, 1366x768, 1360x768,
                    1280x800, 1152x864, 1280x768, 1280x720, 1024x768, 1024x576, 832x624, 800x600, 720x576,
                    848x480, 720x480, 640x480, 720x400
                  OpenGL: renderer: AMD CEDAR (DRM 2.50.0 / 6.1.10-antix.1-amd64-smp LLVM 15.0.6)
                    v: 4.5 Mesa 22.3.3 direct render: Yes
                Audio:
                  Device-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio vendor: ASUSTeK 5
                    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:3b56 class-ID: 0403
                  Device-2: AMD Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300/7300 Series] vendor: ASUSTeK
                    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16 bus-ID: 01:00.1
                    chip-ID: 1002:aa68 class-ID: 0403
                  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k6.1.10-antix.1-amd64-smp running: yes
                  Sound Server-2: JACK v: 1.9.21 running: no
                Network:
                  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK M4A785/P7P55
                    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: c800 bus-ID: 02:00.0
                    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
                  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
                  IP v4: <filter> scope: global broadcast: <filter>
                  IP v6: <filter> scope: link
                  WAN IP: <filter>
                Bluetooth:
                  Message: No bluetooth data found.
                Logical:
                  Message: No logical block device data found.
                RAID:
                  Message: No RAID data found.
                Drives:
                  Local Storage: total: 3.89 TiB used: 687.09 GiB (17.2%)
                  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Maxtor model: STM3250318AS size: 232.89 GiB block-size:
                    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 7200 serial: <filter> rev: CC38
                    scheme: MBR
                  SMART Message: Unknown smartctl error. Unable to generate data.
                  ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 type: USB vendor: SMI (STMicroelectronics) model: USB DISK
                    size: 29.49 GiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: 1100
                    scheme: GPT
                  SMART Message: Unknown USB bridge. Flash drive/Unsupported enclosure?
                  ID-3: /dev/sdc maj-min: 8:32 type: USB vendor: Toshiba model: EXTERNAL USB size: 3.64 TiB
                    block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: 5438 scheme: GPT
                  SMART Message: A mandatory SMART command failed. Various possible causes.
                  Message: No optical or floppy data found.
                Partition:
                  ID-1: /live/boot-dev raw-size: 29.44 GiB size: 28.91 GiB (98.18%) used: 18.47 GiB (63.9%)
                    fs: ext4 block-size: 4096 B dev: /dev/sdb1 maj-min: 8:17 label: antiX-Live-usb
                    uuid: 76ca61e0-47f8-4075-8448-e28989c3b64e
                  ID-2: /media/ANTIX-UEFI raw-size: 49 MiB size: 48.2 MiB (98.43%) used: 12.3 MiB (25.4%)
                    fs: vfat block-size: 512 B dev: /dev/sdb2 maj-min: 8:18 label: ANTIX-UEFI uuid: 2100-8C30
                  ID-3: /media/Robert/sdc1-usb-TOSHIBA_EXTERNAL raw-size: 3.64 TiB size: 3.58 TiB (98.40%)
                    used: 519.48 GiB (14.2%) fs: ext4 block-size: 4096 B dev: /dev/sdc1 maj-min: 8:33 label: N/A
                    uuid: ade4760b-84fb-4bcf-8de6-2071af30fe8d
                  ID-4: /media/homeantiX raw-size: 49.02 GiB size: 47.95 GiB (97.82%) used: 1.38 GiB (2.9%)
                    fs: ext4 block-size: 4096 B dev: /dev/sda3 maj-min: 8:3 label: homeantiX
                    uuid: e1991eba-59bf-4106-8a46-09b3ee0e94af
                  ID-5: /media/rootantiX21 raw-size: 24.43 GiB size: 23.88 GiB (97.74%) used: 6.59 GiB (27.6%)
                    fs: ext4 block-size: 4096 B dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1 label: rootantiX21
                    uuid: 9d2f9bb5-5d2f-4aad-96ed-12c96919bd8d
                  ID-6: /media/sda4 raw-size: 155.27 GiB size: 151.78 GiB (97.75%) used: 137.28 GiB (90.4%)
                    fs: ext4 block-size: 4096 B dev: /dev/sda4 maj-min: 8:4 label: N/A
                    uuid: c48583c1-9e59-4d5b-9114-c6041479f9f7
                Swap:
                  Kernel: swappiness: 10 (default 60) cache-pressure: 50 (default 100)
                  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 3.91 GiB used: 3.87 GiB (99.2%) priority: -2 dev: /dev/sda2
                    maj-min: 8:2 label: swapantiX uuid: 57ab2d2d-e0e9-49e6-b8d0-d8bea277cf7c
                Unmounted:
                  Message: No unmounted partitions found.
                USB:
                  Hub-1: 1-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Hub-2: 1-1:2 info: Intel Integrated Rate Matching Hub ports: 6 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s
                    chip-ID: 8087:0020 class-ID: 0900
                  Device-1: 1-1.1:30 info: Toshiba America MQ04UBF100 type: Mass Storage driver: usb-storage
                    interfaces: 1 rev: 2.1 speed: 480 Mb/s power: 500mA chip-ID: 0480:0900 class-ID: 0806
                    serial: <filter>
                  Hub-3: 2-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                    class-ID: 0900
                  Hub-4: 2-1:2 info: Intel Integrated Rate Matching Hub ports: 8 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s
                    chip-ID: 8087:0020 class-ID: 0900
                  Device-1: 2-1.7:3 info: Logitech Unifying Receiver type: Keyboard,Mouse,HID
                    driver: logitech-djreceiver,usbhid interfaces: 3 rev: 2.0 speed: 12 Mb/s power: 98mA
                    chip-ID: 046d:c52b class-ID: 0300
                  Hub-5: 2-1.8:4 info: Genesys Logic Hub ports: 4 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s power: 100mA
                    chip-ID: 05e3:0608 class-ID: 0900
                  Device-1: 2-1.8.1:5 info: Silicon Motion - Taiwan (formerly Feiya ) USB DISK
                    type: Mass Storage driver: usb-storage interfaces: 1 rev: 2.1 speed: 480 Mb/s power: 500mA
                    chip-ID: 090c:2000 class-ID: 0806 serial: <filter>
                Sensors:
                  System Temperatures: cpu: 47.0 C mobo: 37.0 C gpu: radeon temp: 57.5 C
                  Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 1480 case-1: 1259
                  Power: 12v: 12.26 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.42 vbat: N/A
                Repos:
                  Packages: apt: 2467 lib: 1287
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
                    1: deb http: //repo.antixlinux.com/testing testing main nonfree nosystemd
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bookworm-backports.list
                    1: deb http: //deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
                    1: deb http: //ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
                    1: deb http: //ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                    2: deb http: //security.debian.org/ bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                    3: deb http: //ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                    4: deb http: //security.debian.org/ buster-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
                Processes:
                  CPU top: 5 of 327
                  1: cpu: 100% command: ps pid: 1281386 mem: 3.82 MiB (0.0%)
                  2: cpu: 38.0% command: yad pid: 1281352 mem: 31.2 MiB (0.3%)
                  3: cpu: 18.3% command: mpv pid: 1012863 mem: 514.1 MiB (6.4%)
                  4: cpu: 6.0% command: firefox-esr pid: 409502 mem: 717.1 MiB (9.0%)
                  5: cpu: 5.9% command: xorg pid: 318412 mem: 85.3 MiB (1.0%)
                  Memory top: 5 of 327
                  1: mem: 717.1 MiB (9.0%) command: firefox-esr pid: 409502 cpu: 6.0%
                  2: mem: 514.1 MiB (6.4%) command: mpv pid: 1012863 cpu: 18.3%
                  3: mem: 391.2 MiB (4.9%) command: meld started by: python3 pid: 3926911 cpu: 0.3%
                  4: mem: 293.4 MiB (3.6%) command: zzzfm pid: 3746556 cpu: 0.4%
                  5: mem: 288.5 MiB (3.6%) command: firefox-esr pid: 545557 cpu: 0.1%
                Info:
                  Processes: 327 Uptime: 34d 4h 4m wakeups: 6725 Init: runit v: N/A runlevel: 2 tool: service
                  Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12 Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.19

                Hopefully you succeed also making it work properly on your devices. But in the end I reckon this is something which must be fixed in the app-select application.

                Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                #104456
                Moderator
                Brian Masinick
                  sudo ps_mem.py 
                  [sudo] password for masinick: 
                   Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program
                  
                   96.0 KiB +  11.5 KiB = 107.5 KiB	runit
                  100.0 KiB +  15.5 KiB = 115.5 KiB	runsvdir
                  108.0 KiB +  21.5 KiB = 129.5 KiB	sleep
                  120.0 KiB +  20.5 KiB = 140.5 KiB	run-parts
                  124.0 KiB +  17.5 KiB = 141.5 KiB	svlogd
                   80.0 KiB +  77.5 KiB = 157.5 KiB	sh
                   96.0 KiB +  75.5 KiB = 171.5 KiB	apt-compat
                  204.0 KiB +  25.5 KiB = 229.5 KiB	gpm
                  208.0 KiB +  25.5 KiB = 233.5 KiB	atd
                  216.0 KiB +  31.5 KiB = 247.5 KiB	anacron
                  260.0 KiB +  51.5 KiB = 311.5 KiB	rtkit-daemon
                  288.0 KiB +  25.5 KiB = 313.5 KiB	acpid
                  360.0 KiB +  92.5 KiB = 452.5 KiB	icewm-session
                  400.0 KiB +  86.5 KiB = 486.5 KiB	dbus-launch
                  368.0 KiB + 137.5 KiB = 505.5 KiB	udevil
                  460.0 KiB + 154.5 KiB = 614.5 KiB	rpcbind
                  388.0 KiB + 278.5 KiB = 666.5 KiB	getty (3)
                  644.0 KiB + 373.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB	devmon
                  376.0 KiB + 754.0 KiB =   1.1 MiB	saned (2)
                  924.0 KiB + 364.0 KiB =   1.3 MiB	dbus-daemon (2)
                  836.0 KiB + 457.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	desktop-session
                    1.4 MiB + 345.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB	runsv (21)
                    1.4 MiB + 346.5 KiB =   1.7 MiB	sudo
                    1.3 MiB + 527.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB	console-kit-daemon
                    1.6 MiB + 245.5 KiB =   1.8 MiB	udevd
                    1.5 MiB + 381.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	ntpd
                    1.4 MiB + 640.5 KiB =   2.0 MiB	polkitd
                    1.8 MiB + 234.5 KiB =   2.1 MiB	bluetoothd
                    2.2 MiB +  50.5 KiB =   2.2 MiB	rsyslogd
                    1.8 MiB + 499.5 KiB =   2.3 MiB	bash
                    3.2 MiB +  25.5 KiB =   3.2 MiB	haveged
                    2.5 MiB + 745.5 KiB =   3.3 MiB	dhclient
                    3.5 MiB + 225.5 KiB =   3.7 MiB	connmand
                    3.5 MiB + 788.5 KiB =   4.3 MiB	conky
                    4.0 MiB + 728.5 KiB =   4.7 MiB	slimski
                    4.7 MiB + 767.5 KiB =   5.4 MiB	wpa_supplicant
                    2.7 MiB +   3.2 MiB =   6.0 MiB	volumeicon
                    5.5 MiB +   1.2 MiB =   6.7 MiB	icewm
                    9.1 MiB +   2.0 MiB =  11.1 MiB	pulseaudio
                    7.3 MiB +   5.3 MiB =  12.5 MiB	roxterm
                   37.5 MiB +  22.3 MiB =  59.8 MiB	Xorg
                  787.7 MiB + 128.8 MiB = 916.5 MiB	firefox-bin (14)
                  ---------------------------------
                                            1.0 GiB
                  =================================

                  --
                  Brian Masinick

                  #104392
                  Moderator
                  Brian Masinick

                    No, there’s quite a difference between what pinxi and what ps_mem.py measure. I see between 550-600 MB with pinxi and under 170 MB with ps_mem.py.

                    sudo ps_mem.py
                    [sudo] password for masinick: 
                     Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program
                    
                     92.0 KiB +  16.5 KiB = 108.5 KiB	runit
                    104.0 KiB +  22.5 KiB = 126.5 KiB	runsvdir
                    124.0 KiB +  24.5 KiB = 148.5 KiB	svlogd
                    196.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 231.5 KiB	gpm
                    208.0 KiB +  35.5 KiB = 243.5 KiB	atd
                    284.0 KiB +  44.5 KiB = 328.5 KiB	acpid
                    256.0 KiB +  94.5 KiB = 350.5 KiB	rtkit-daemon
                    408.0 KiB + 141.5 KiB = 549.5 KiB	dbus-launch
                    356.0 KiB + 255.5 KiB = 611.5 KiB	icewm-session
                    372.0 KiB + 314.5 KiB = 686.5 KiB	udevil
                    396.0 KiB + 293.5 KiB = 689.5 KiB	getty (3)
                    488.0 KiB + 224.5 KiB = 712.5 KiB	rpcbind
                    624.0 KiB + 428.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB	devmon
                    796.0 KiB + 509.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	saned
                    848.0 KiB + 471.0 KiB =   1.3 MiB	dbus-daemon (2)
                    836.0 KiB + 516.5 KiB =   1.3 MiB	desktop-session
                      1.4 MiB + 478.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	runsv (21)
                      1.4 MiB + 463.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	sudo
                      1.6 MiB + 288.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	udevd
                      1.4 MiB + 499.5 KiB =   1.9 MiB	ntpd
                      1.7 MiB + 526.5 KiB =   2.2 MiB	bash
                      2.2 MiB +  85.5 KiB =   2.2 MiB	rsyslogd
                      1.9 MiB + 527.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB	bluetoothd
                      2.2 MiB + 728.5 KiB =   2.9 MiB	polkitd
                      3.2 MiB +  38.5 KiB =   3.2 MiB	haveged
                      2.5 MiB + 758.5 KiB =   3.3 MiB	dhclient
                      3.4 MiB + 331.5 KiB =   3.7 MiB	connmand
                      3.7 MiB +   1.2 MiB =   4.9 MiB	conky
                      4.6 MiB + 828.5 KiB =   5.4 MiB	wpa_supplicant
                      4.1 MiB +   1.3 MiB =   5.5 MiB	slimski
                      5.5 MiB +   2.9 MiB =   8.4 MiB	icewm
                      4.2 MiB +   4.3 MiB =   8.6 MiB	volumeicon
                     10.4 MiB +   5.6 MiB =  16.0 MiB	roxterm
                     81.4 MiB +   1.3 MiB =  82.7 MiB	Xorg
                    ---------------------------------
                                            168.5 MiB
                    =================================

                    --
                    Brian Masinick

                    #104346
                    Moderator
                    christophe

                      If you are running live (usb, frugal, cd) with the bootcode “disable=x” this will disable ufw.

                      Look at the antiX FAQs: https://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/docs-antiX-22/FAQ/boot-params.html

                      Note this section:

                      Disable Some SystemV Services

                      This option will disable some startup services for faster booting and less memory consumption.

                      disable=|antiX=|aX=

                      Valid values are a combination of the following letters:

                      L = lean Turn off some services
                      X = Xtralean Turn off even more services
                      M = mean Turn off some networking services
                      D = nodbus Dont’ launch dbus

                      Lean services:

                      acpid acpi-fakekey acpi-support bootlogs bluetooth
                      cpufrequtils cron cups gpm ifplugd
                      irqbalance loadcpufreq nfs-common rpcbind rsync
                      rsyslog saned smartmontools ssh stop-bootlogd
                      sudo wicd

                      Note that acpid and wicd will not be disabled if we detect laptop hardware.

                      Xtralean services:

                      bootlogd cryptdisks cryptdisks-early
                      dns-clean hdparm hwclock.sh
                      hwclockfirst.sh ifupdown-clean lm-sensors
                      mountnfs-bootclean.sh mountoverflowtmp nfs-common
                      pcmciautils policykit pppd-dns
                      ufw urandom

                      Mean services:

                      networking resolvconf

                      confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

                      #104313
                      Moderator
                      Brian Masinick

                        sudo ps_mem.py

                        [sudo] password for masinick:
                        Private + Shared = RAM used Program

                        88.0 KiB + 15.5 KiB = 103.5 KiB runit
                        104.0 KiB + 20.5 KiB = 124.5 KiB runsvdir
                        128.0 KiB + 20.5 KiB = 148.5 KiB svlogd
                        196.0 KiB + 31.5 KiB = 227.5 KiB gpm
                        204.0 KiB + 30.5 KiB = 234.5 KiB atd
                        284.0 KiB + 37.5 KiB = 321.5 KiB acpid
                        264.0 KiB + 77.5 KiB = 341.5 KiB rtkit-daemon
                        368.0 KiB + 224.5 KiB = 592.5 KiB udevil
                        360.0 KiB + 252.5 KiB = 612.5 KiB icewm-session
                        472.0 KiB + 214.5 KiB = 686.5 KiB rpcbind
                        428.0 KiB + 261.5 KiB = 689.5 KiB getty (3)
                        756.0 KiB + 213.0 KiB = 969.0 KiB dbus-launch (2)
                        624.0 KiB + 430.5 KiB = 1.0 MiB devmon
                        796.0 KiB + 499.5 KiB = 1.3 MiB saned
                        860.0 KiB + 477.5 KiB = 1.3 MiB desktop-session
                        960.0 KiB + 684.5 KiB = 1.6 MiB at-spi-bus-launcher
                        1.0 MiB + 612.5 KiB = 1.6 MiB at-spi2-registryd
                        1.4 MiB + 429.5 KiB = 1.8 MiB runsv (21)
                        1.4 MiB + 436.5 KiB = 1.8 MiB sudo
                        1.6 MiB + 272.5 KiB = 1.9 MiB udevd
                        1.3 MiB + 655.5 KiB = 1.9 MiB console-kit-daemon
                        1.5 MiB + 498.5 KiB = 2.0 MiB xscreensaver
                        1.5 MiB + 472.5 KiB = 2.0 MiB ntpd
                        1.4 MiB + 656.0 KiB = 2.0 MiB dbus-daemon (4)
                        1.4 MiB + 762.5 KiB = 2.2 MiB polkitd
                        2.2 MiB + 75.5 KiB = 2.2 MiB rsyslogd
                        1.9 MiB + 463.5 KiB = 2.4 MiB bluetoothd
                        2.4 MiB + 518.5 KiB = 2.9 MiB bash
                        3.2 MiB + 31.5 KiB = 3.2 MiB haveged
                        2.6 MiB + 751.5 KiB = 3.3 MiB dhclient
                        3.4 MiB + 280.5 KiB = 3.7 MiB connmand
                        3.6 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 4.8 MiB conky
                        3.9 MiB + 1.3 MiB = 5.2 MiB slimski
                        4.5 MiB + 809.5 KiB = 5.3 MiB wpa_supplicant
                        4.2 MiB + 4.0 MiB = 8.2 MiB volumeicon
                        5.6 MiB + 2.7 MiB = 8.3 MiB icewm
                        11.0 MiB + 5.4 MiB = 16.4 MiB roxterm
                        82.6 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 83.9 MiB Xorg
                        ———————————
                        177.2 MiB
                        =================================

                        I’m here now with antiX 22. As you can see, it’s reasonably nimble without a Web Browser running; it’ll sometimes jump between 600 MiB and 1.0-1.2 Gib IF I’m running a multi-function Web browser, serving Email, message forums, weather, and time resources. With the HP, this usage is inconsequential, as a 64-bit system this one does use a few more base resources but returns them with very efficient utilization.

                        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Brian Masinick.

                        --
                        Brian Masinick

                        #104269
                        Moderator
                        BobC

                          I had good luck with the alpha on 5 of my different Dell laptops. I’ve now installed the beta to mt Dell E5540 and I did have a lack of sound in Firefox originally, but I ran the update and upgrade, and saw it brought in a newer Firefox, and sound is now working.

                          I also got my bluetooth headphones working. I had to make a couple manual configuration changes to get it working, but I really do like having that capability.

                          One thought. A number of times I’ve made the wrong selection on the install where it says system uses local time, and sometimes I need to check it and other times not. Could we put the actual time values that would be displayed there next to the selection so it would be obvious what the correct choice would be?

                          Thanks anticapitalista! This is the best beta I’ve ever tried 🙂

                          #104168
                          Member
                          Trashthrasher

                            `System:
                            Kernel: 6.1.18-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1
                            parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.18-antix.1-amd64-smp
                            root=UUID=181d69b5-f759-4d14-99e5-e5b97e71ffa4 ro quiet video=1920×1080
                            Desktop: IceWM v: 3.3.2 vt: 7 dm: slimski v: 1.5.0 Distro: antiX-22_x64-full Grup Yorum 18
                            October 2022 base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
                            Machine:
                            Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Z400 Workstation v: N/A
                            serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 6 serial: <superuser required>
                            Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 0B4Ch v: D serial: <superuser required> BIOS: Hewlett-Packard
                            v: 786G3 v03.61 date: 03/05/2018
                            Battery:
                            Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech Wireless Keyboard serial: <filter> charge: N/A
                            status: N/A
                            Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse serial: <filter> charge: Normal
                            status: discharging
                            Memory:
                            RAM: total: 15.61 GiB used: 1.36 GiB (8.7%)
                            RAM Report: permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                            PCI Slots:
                            Permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                            CPU:
                            Info: model: Intel Xeon W3565 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem level: v2 built: 2008-10
                            process: Intel 45nm family: 6 model-id: 0x1A (26) stepping: 5 microcode: 0x1D
                            Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 4 tpc: 2 threads: 8 smt: enabled cache: L1: 256 KiB
                            desc: d-4×32 KiB; i-4×32 KiB L2: 1024 KiB desc: 4×256 KiB L3: 8 MiB desc: 1×8 MiB
                            Speed (MHz): avg: 2682 high: 3337 min/max: 1596/3193 boost: enabled scaling:
                            driver: acpi-cpufreq governor: schedutil cores: 1: 3337 2: 1596 3: 3334 4: 3334 5: 1596 6: 3334
                            7: 3334 8: 1596 bogomips: 51205
                            Flags: acpi aperfmperf apic arch_perfmon bts clflush cmov constant_tsc cpuid cx16 cx8 dca de
                            ds_cpl dtes64 dtherm dts ept est flexpriority flush_l1d fpu fxsr ht ibpb ibrs ida lahf_lm lm
                            mca mce mmx monitor msr mtrr nonstop_tsc nopl nx pae pat pbe pdcm pebs pge pni popcnt pse
                            pse36 pti rdtscp rep_good sep ssbd sse sse2 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 stibp syscall tm tm2
                            tpr_shadow tsc vme vmx vnmi vpid xtopology xtpr
                            Vulnerabilities:
                            Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX disabled
                            Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion; VMX: conditional cache flushes, SMT vulnerable
                            Type: mds status: Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT vulnerable
                            Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
                            Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
                            Type: retbleed status: Not affected
                            Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
                            Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
                            Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: conditional, RSB
                            filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
                            Type: srbds status: Not affected
                            Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
                            Graphics:
                            Device-1: NVIDIA G94GL [Quadro FX 1800] driver: nouveau v: kernel non-free: series: 340.xx
                            status: legacy (EOL) last: release: 340.108 kernel: 5.4 xorg: 1.20 arch: Tesla process: 40-80nm
                            built: 2006-13 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: DP-1 empty: DP-2,DVI-I-1
                            bus-ID: 0f:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0638 class-ID: 0300 temp: 54.0 C
                            Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 compositor: Picom v: 8.2 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
                            unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
                            Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920×1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.00×11.22″) s-diag: 582mm (22.93″)
                            Monitor-1: DP-1 model: HP E221i serial: <filter> built: 2015 res: 1920×1080 hz: 60 dpi: 102
                            gamma: 1.2 chroma: red: x: 0.651 y: 0.337 green: x: 0.318 y: 0.612 blue: x: 0.149 y: 0.063 white:
                            x: 0.314 y: 0.329 size: 477x268mm (18.78×10.55″) diag: 547mm (21.5″) ratio: 16:9
                            modes: 1920×1080, 1680×1050, 1600×900, 1280×1024, 1440×900, 1280×720, 1024×768, 800×600,
                            640×480, 720×400
                            API: OpenGL v: 3.3 Mesa 20.3.5 renderer: NV94 direct-render: Yes
                            Audio:
                            Device-1: Intel 82801JI HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
                            bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:3a3e class-ID: 0403
                            Sound API: ALSA v: k6.1.18-antix.1-amd64-smp running: yes
                            Sound Server-1: PulseAudio v: 14.2 running: no
                            Network:
                            Device-1: Broadcom NetXtreme BCM5764M Gigabit Ethernet PCIe vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: tg3
                            v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: N/A bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 14e4:1684
                            class-ID: 0200
                            IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
                            IP v4: <filter> scope: global broadcast: <filter>
                            IP v6: <filter> scope: global
                            IP v6: <filter> type: dynamic mngtmpaddr scope: global
                            IP v6: <filter> scope: link
                            WAN IP: <filter>
                            Bluetooth:
                            Message: No bluetooth data found.
                            Logical:
                            Message: No logical block device data found.
                            RAID:
                            Hardware-1: Intel SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 port: d0c0 bus-ID: 00:1f.2
                            chip-ID: 8086:2822 rev: class-ID: 0104
                            Drives:
                            Local Storage: total: 3.19 TiB used: 1.37 TiB (43.0%)
                            SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
                            ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Western Digital model: WDS100T2B0A-00SM50 size: 931.51 GiB
                            block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 00WD
                            scheme: MBR
                            ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: A-Data model: SU760 size: 476.94 GiB block-size:
                            physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 4R23 scheme: MBR
                            ID-3: /dev/sdc maj-min: 8:32 type: USB vendor: Western Digital model: WD My Passport 0820
                            size: 1.82 TiB block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B type: N/A serial: <filter> rev: 1007
                            scheme: MBR
                            Optical-1: /dev/sr0 vendor: hp model: DVD A DH16ABLH rev: 3HD9 dev-links: cdrom,cdrw,dvd,dvdrw
                            Features: speed: 40 multisession: yes audio: yes dvd: yes rw: cd-r,cd-rw,dvd-r,dvd-ram
                            state: running
                            Partition:
                            ID-1: / raw-size: 923.5 GiB size: 907.93 GiB (98.31%) used: 22.39 GiB (2.5%) fs: ext4
                            dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1 label: rootantiX22 uuid: 181d69b5-f759-4d14-99e5-e5b97e71ffa4
                            ID-2: /home/<filter>/pCloudDrive raw-size: N/A size: 2 TiB used: 1.26 TiB (63.0%) fs: fuse
                            source: ERR-102
                            ID-3: /media/dank/sdc1-usb-WD_My_Passport_0 raw-size: 1.82 TiB size: 1.82 TiB (100.00%)
                            used: 122.7 MiB (0.0%) fs: ntfs dev: /dev/sdc1 maj-min: 8:33 label: N/A uuid: 3E5BB57B043F4587
                            ID-4: /run/timeshift/backup raw-size: 476.94 GiB size: 468.39 GiB (98.21%)
                            used: 94.05 GiB (20.1%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sdb1 maj-min: 8:17 label: Timeshift
                            uuid: 3a83843b-21f9-4bcd-9125-053d9248bf39
                            Swap:
                            Kernel: swappiness: 10 (default 60) cache-pressure: 50 (default 100)
                            ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 8 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 dev: /dev/sda2
                            maj-min: 8:2 label: N/A uuid: 6a81be70-9c09-4f92-972b-4487a29e2d56
                            Unmounted:
                            Message: No unmounted partitions found.
                            USB:
                            Hub-1: 1-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 6 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-2: 2-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 6 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-3: 3-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-4: 4-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-5: 5-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Device-1: 5-1:2 info: Logitech Unifying Receiver type: Keyboard,Mouse
                            driver: logitech-djreceiver,usbhid interfaces: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 12 Mb/s power: 98mA
                            chip-ID: 046d:c534 class-ID: 0301
                            Hub-6: 6-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-7: 7-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-8: 8-0:1 info: Full speed or root hub ports: 2 rev: 1.1 speed: 12 Mb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0001
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-9: 9-0:1 info: Hi-speed hub with single TT ports: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s
                            chip-ID: 1d6b:0002 class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-10: 9-2:2 info: VIA Labs USB2.0 Hub ports: 4 rev: 2.1 speed: 480 Mb/s chip-ID: 2109:2822
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-11: 10-0:1 info: Super-speed hub ports: 2 rev: 3.1 speed: 10 Gb/s chip-ID: 1d6b:0003
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Hub-12: 10-2:2 info: VIA Labs USB3.1 Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.2 speed: 10 Gb/s chip-ID: 2109:0822
                            class-ID: 0900
                            Device-1: 10-2.2:3 info: Western Digital My Passport Ultra (WDBMWV WDBZFP) type: Mass Storage
                            driver: usb-storage interfaces: 1 rev: 3.0 speed: 5 Gb/s power: 896mA chip-ID: 1058:0820
                            class-ID: 0806 serial: <filter>
                            Sensors:
                            System Temperatures: cpu: 52.2 C mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 55.0 C
                            Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 1731 fan-2: 0 fan-3: 0
                            Power: 12v: N/A 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.29 vbat: N/A gpu: nouveau V: 1.05
                            Repos:
                            Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2312 libs: 1126 tools: apt,apt-get,nala,synaptic
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
                            1: deb http: //ftp.osuosl.org/pub/mxlinux/antix/bullseye/ bullseye main nosystemd nonfree
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bullseye-backports.list
                            1: deb http: //deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports main contrib non-free
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
                            1: deb http: //debian.osuosl.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
                            1: deb http: //debian.osuosl.org/debian/ bullseye main contrib non-free
                            2: deb http: //security.debian.org/ bullseye-security main contrib non-free
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/nicotine-team-ubuntu-stable-lunar.list
                            1: deb http: //ppa.launchpad.net/nicotine-team/stable/ubuntu lunar main
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
                            1: deb http: //repository.spotify.com stable non-free
                            No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list
                            Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/volian-archive-scar-unstable.list
                            1: deb [arch=amd64,arm64,armhf] http: //deb.volian.org/volian/ scar main
                            Processes:
                            CPU top: 5 of 210
                            1: cpu: 100% command: pcloud pid: 4177 mem: 203.5 MiB (1.2%)
                            2: cpu: 99.4% command: pcloud pid: 10617 mem: 185.1 MiB (1.1%)
                            3: cpu: 14.0% command: pcloud pid: 2758 mem: 325.6 MiB (2.0%)
                            4: cpu: 11.1% command: [kworker/u16:1-events_unbound] pid: 8510 mem: 0.00 MiB (0.0%)
                            5: cpu: 5.6% command: [kworker/u16:3-events_unbound] pid: 9658 mem: 0.00 MiB (0.0%)
                            Memory top: 5 of 210
                            1: mem: 325.6 MiB (2.0%) command: pcloud pid: 2758 cpu: 14.0%
                            2: mem: 203.5 MiB (1.2%) command: pcloud pid: 4177 cpu: 100%
                            3: mem: 185.1 MiB (1.1%) command: pcloud pid: 10617 cpu: 99.4%
                            4: mem: 96.2 MiB (0.6%) command: mariadbd pid: 2519 cpu: 0.0%
                            5: mem: 88.0 MiB (0.5%) command: pcloud pid: 2880 cpu: 0.0%
                            Info:
                            Processes: 210 Uptime: 3h 2m wakeups: 36 Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 runlevel: 5 default: 5
                            tool: service Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 alt: 10 Client: IceWM v: 3.3.2 inxi: 3.3.25

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                            Member
                            giuzeta

                              THANK YOU very much to ALL users of this forum, for your reply and for your kindness. A lot of replies, you are really a community 🙂 I appreciate the time you give to me, interesting in my first linux experience.
                              SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST, it was my error, i will continue in THIS POST, so please reply me here. I want to say thank you also to @Xunzi_23 and the moderator @Brian Masinick but i don’t know how to tag theese peoples in this post from the other.

                              In the past days i had read yours messages and your advices, i am replying late caused for my work and home’s problems and i was very busy.
                              Now i had read some guide’s parts and i am understanding some news notions about this kind of OS, new for me. I tried also using the TERMINAL linux shell and tried some basic commands, also downloading a file from the terminal.. like test.. i tried install updates and apps from the apposite app from the control centre, i tested some times the speed and performances of this old pc (comparing to performances with Windows XP) in whatching streaming movies and using the browsers, they aren’t very good, but aceptables, i need to try some improvements and adjust with your help, like you can read after.
                              Now i installed the 64 BIT VERSION, like yours very precious advices, and it works, so i will use the 64 for more compatibility and for all theese reasons. But some graphics visual bugs persist, sometimes, when use the system, can read in the following quotes to understand better.
                              I want to continue use this antix OS to improve my skills and i will try to improve laptops performances with your help, because i think when you have old or bad hardware, you will learn more trying to adjust it.

                              Hello Giuzeta.

                              Welcome to Antix Linux and the Forum.

                              I don’t know how to write in English and send my texts translated by the internet translator. I hope you can understand everything. If your native language is not English, please translate my original Portuguese language text in Brazil directly into your language with the help of internet translators that you will get a much better result.

                              Regardless of your level of knowledge about GNU/Linux, I recommend you read these excellent tutorials created by @PPC:

                              What is antiX and how to try it out or install it.
                              Short essential how-to list for the complete Linux newbie.
                              How-to install applications – 2020 version.
                              How to: correctly use antiX forum.

                              When I started using Antix, I read the tutorials that the PPC created, these readings spared me a lot of my time and I think it saves the time of any new Antix user. Your time will not be lost with these readings, it will seem to be much easier than you could imagine. You will not waste your time with internet searches or even create new topics, on the contrary, you will earn a lot of time from these readings. I recommend you try the work areas that have “ZZZ” in your name. I usually use the “ZZZ-Icewm” or “ZZZ-JWM” or “ZZZ-Fluxbox” (each of these work areas have their own characteristics and consume more or less resources). ZZZFM will be the default file manager in your desktop, it is very similar to other file managers from other GNU/Linux distributions and Windows XP. To access the other Antix work areas, click the Antix menu (or right -click), desktop, switch between desktops and click on the work area name, instantly to desktop will be loaded.

                              Whenever you need to request technical help or support in this forum, explain in detail what is happening, do not save the words, be thorough when writing, enter the characteristics of your computer, such as the brand and the model. If possible, post the result of the command $ Inxi -zv7 of the terminal, copy and paste here in the message of the topic you create in this forum.

                              When you start a topic or participate with a post, remember to check the option “Notify Me of Follow-Up Replies via email”, marking this option, you will receive a message in your email box whenever there are answers from topic in question.

                              (additional question: its an old computer with 2gb ram, its better for me 32bit or 64bit version of ANTIX ?)

                              Always give preference to the 64-bit operating system, you will only have to use the 32-bit operating system if your processor is 32-bit. The punranger already explained why.

                              I maintain computers older than yours with antiX.

                              marcelocripe
                              (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)

                              thank you, i tried your advices, read come guide’s parts and tried some desktops, had a tour in this wonderful OS 🙂 i will try to adjust theese software problem with your help, if you can. look at the end of the post in $ inxi -Fz infos. 😉

                              Just noticed this: “(additional question: its an old computer with 2gb ram, its better for me 32bit or 64bit version of ANTIX ?)

                              If you have a 64-bit processor, use the 64-bit version. In my experience, there are no practical differences in speed and efficiency between 32 or 64 bit antiX. But many developers no longer offer 32-bit versions of their software, so you may run into problems finding updated versions of your favorite apps. Also, DRM protected streaming sites like Netflix won’t work on 32-bit systems.

                              and

                              Antix 22 32bit

                              If your computer has a 32bits CPU, you can’t install a 64bits OS, and you can’t probably use any chromium derived browser (at least not an up to date one). In my experience, Youtube is optimized to be streamed in Chromium or it’s derived browsers (Chrome, Edge, Brave, etc).
                              To play youtube videos, try Smtube and select a video resolution that plays well on your device – 360p should look good and play well on most existing computers.
                              You can try also using SeaMonkey browser – it sometimes gives better results on low powered computers than firefox-esr…

                              To improved performance, you can try, like stated in previous posts, install drivers for your hardware or even different kernels. From experience, since I still have a 32bits laptop- it works great, I use Seamonkey and an old version of Min Browser (it’s chromium derived) for browsing and Smtube to stream youtube. A very well configured mpv or vlc will probably allow you to watch even HD videos, but Xine media player, if it runs well on your device will probably provide the best results to play video files.

                              P.

                              thank you very much both, for it now i installed the 64gb version and its work, i have the impression (but can be only a impression) that it was smoother whit the 32bit version, but its ok, i will use the 64 for now… i will test the 32bit version only in the future for a test to compare eventually. I tried video players whit the direct web link, and they works good. I tried and installed Cromium and Mozilla, boths works but, in the entire system and in theese browser i notice a PROBLEM with graphics, in some moment the text become confused, bugged and pixeled when you pass on it with mouse, in some cases when change windows in the sistem you noticed a strange graphic effect, it’s difficult to explain, it’s like when in MS Windows you have problems with graphics drivers.

                              Sometimes the easiest way to get computer more powerful, is to clean all ventilation channels. If command sensors brings over 70 decrees Celsius, computer runs too hot.

                              thank you i cleaned a little, its ok 🙂

                              And change the thermal paste.

                              thank you, for the moment i think is not necessary. i had to adjust many other things in software settings, with your team help, if you can 🙂

                              At the beginning please show us your hardware
                              inxi -Fz
                              The easiest way to improve such a system is to install a SSD

                              thank you, at the end i will insert system information. for it in theese days i was buying something in Aliexpress and i had the idea to add the SSD for this old notebook, in this chinese shop they sell cheaps SSD (obviously and probably not quality items for this cheap price), and i think i want to try it, on of this for 10-15euros, 64gb is good the same for me, but i dont know what the model or the connection for this specific laptop… how to understand witch model to buy?
                              EXTRA QUESTION you think installing an ssd in a very old laptop (referred to the reduced maximum speed of somes mainboard features) will improve performances like for example buffering of a streaming whatching movies from the browser, speed opening web pages in the browser? or it will improve only the read writing speed ?? (obviously it will improve startup speed and trasfer files speed, but the general processor/ram power will improve in some ways? or it will suffer the bad limits of an old motherboards? Thank you

                              1) Since you mentioned drivers, installing some firmware-related packages (i.e. packages more suitable to your HW/system, such as ‘linux-firmware-nonfree’ etc) may help.
                              E.g. you can open terminal and run the following command:
                              apt-cache search firmware > FIRMWARE.txt
                              ‘apt’ is a packaging utility in Debian-based systems (antiX is based on Debian), you search the cache (database) for ‘firmware’ and ‘>’ redirects the (standard) output to a file named ‘FIRMWARE.txt’.
                              You may open the file with editor of your preference and examine its content.
                              Similarly, you may search for ‘radeon’.
                              Beware: installing drivers may sometimes lead to undesired effects.

                              Search for intel suggests ‘intel-microcode’ might be worth a try if not already installed.
                              apt-cache search intel | grep -i intel > INTEL.txt

                              2) Streaming videos in modern browsers simply is CPU heavy; you can do the following to reduce the load:
                              2.A) Use add-ons to block some scripts, adds etc. which should reduce the clutter that would normally be eating up both CPU and RAM.
                              2.B) Try other browsers; e.g. some sites may be optimised for chromium-based browsers since Microsoft [MS Edge] and Google [Chrome], two big players, use those.
                              2.C) Tweak the browser settings.

                              Also, some people state that using another program/app, such as ‘mpv’ to stream from youtube, improves performance and their experience as @punranger has indicated by his advice.

                              3) You could consider upgrading CPU and/or RAM by buying a compatible second hand CPU/RAM-modules on some online outlets for a reasonable price.
                              Not sure what requirements and max. supported RAM is in case of your motherboard.
                              Unfortunately, it seems that 2GB RAM is max. you can get.
                              https://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showthread.php?t=1336090
                              https://www.datamemorysystems.com/dms-memory/asustek-computer/a7cc-7005m.htm

                              4) I have never done the below and I mention this for the sake of completeness only.
                              If you are willing to dive deep into Linux and invest a *lot* of time, you can — at least in theory — re-compile some of the resource-heavy programs specifically on your HW. This could lead to a performance improvement since you compile on your specific 32-bit HW instead of on a more general 32-bit architecture (for which the packages you installed were built) where less optimisations can be made for the compiled program to work on all the target 32-bit systems.
                              The downsides are that you would have to do that whenever a package is upgraded, some packages are re-packed or built specifically for antiX without systemd and I have no idea what modifications were necessary.

                              tank you very much, i tried this way, whit terminal i created like output these 2 files FIRMWARE.txt and INTEL.txt with its list of drivers/software inside, but HOW TO INSTALL the one i choice?????
                              for example i think i can test some i found in that list, like for example in FIRMWARE.txt i am giving attention like yours advices, to “firmware-linux-nonfree”, “intel-microcode”, “firmware-amd-graphics” (that should be the driver to try for my video card ATI MOBILITY RADEON X1450, no?); and from the INTEL.txt file i see probably many kernels or software for kernels, i dont understand very well, “intel-microcode”, and many others… please can you give me a support in that? thank you 🙂
                              EDIT: now i searched for that, i did apt update, so i controlled in the synaptic pack panel and intel microcode and firmware amd graphic are already installed.. so i dont know what pack exactly i can try to install…

                              $ inxi -Fz
                              System:
                                Kernel: 5.10.142-antix.2-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: IceWM
                                  v: 3.0.1 Distro: antiX-22_x64-full Grup Yorum 18 October 2022
                              Machine:
                                Type: Laptop System: ASUSTeK product: A7C v: 1.0
                                  serial: <superuser required>
                                Mobo: ASUSTeK model: A7C v: 1.0 serial: <superuser required>
                                  BIOS: American Megatrends v: 205 date: 02/13/2007
                              Battery:
                                ID-1: BAT0 charge: 36.6 Wh (81.5%) condition: 44.9/69.9 Wh (64.2%)
                                  volts: 14.9 min: 14.8
                              CPU:
                                Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 T5600 bits: 64 type: MCP cache:
                                  L2: 2 MiB
                                Speed (MHz): avg: 1434 min/max: 996/1826 cores: 1: 1815 2: 1053
                              Graphics:
                                Device-1: AMD RV516/M64 [Mobility Radeon X1450] driver: radeon v: kernel
                                Display: server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: radeon
                                  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa gpu: radeon resolution: 1440x900~60Hz
                                OpenGL: renderer: ATI RV515 v: 2.1 Mesa 20.3.5
                              Audio:
                                Device-1: Intel NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio
                                  driver: snd_hda_intel
                                Device-2: Philips s SAA7131/SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder
                                  driver: saa7134
                                Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.10.142-antix.2-amd64-smp running: yes
                              Network:
                                Device-1: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network driver: iwl3945
                                IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
                                Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
                                  driver: r8169
                                IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
                              Bluetooth:
                                Device-1: ASUSTek BT-183 Bluetooth 2.0+EDR adapter type: USB driver: btusb
                                Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 1 state: down bt-service: running
                                  rfk-block: hardware: no software: yes address: <filter>
                              Drives:
                                Local Storage: total: 93.16 GiB used: 5.4 GiB (5.8%)
                                ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HTS541610J9SA00 size: 93.16 GiB
                              Partition:
                                ID-1: / size: 29.36 GiB used: 5.4 GiB (18.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2
                              Swap:
                                ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 1000 MiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%)
                                  dev: /dev/sda4
                              Sensors:
                                System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0 C mobo: N/A
                                Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
                              Info:
                                Processes: 141 Uptime: 9m Memory: 1.94 GiB used: 771.4 MiB (38.9%)
                                Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.19
                              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by giuzeta.
                              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by giuzeta.

                              Trying for the first time linux on an old laptop.
                              I think working to improve performances on old machines is the best way to learn something new, and improve ourself.

                              #103885

                              In reply to: cmst-Critical Error

                              Member
                              ravacrafts

                                @ravacrafts – you are free to use whatever software you prefer. You may use antiX if you wish, (but it seems it may not be a good fit for your interests). Others have suggested MX Linux. It’s a good distribution too.

                                A few other “good distributions”, depending on exactly what you want:
                                Slackware – clean, old classic .tgz format packages
                                Endeavour OS – cutting edge, yet surprisingly solid Arch Linux variation.
                                Debian Linux – the original distribution that created the package format we use – .deb packages, changed default init from sysvinit to systemd
                                MidnightBSD is a desktop-oriented operating system derived from FreeBSD.
                                Linux Lite is a beginner-friendly Linux distribution based on Ubuntu’s long-term support (LTS) release and featuring the Xfce desktop.

                                I copied a few descriptions from https://distrowatch.com/ and that’s a good site for checking out a variety of distributions.
                                It seems as if you are looking for something else, so I thought I’d make sure you’re aware there are plenty of other distributions to choose from.

                                —-
                                thank you Brian , indeed, seems you are the only one who understands frustration over faulty system, and “whinning” of unhappy linux tester/explorer, I am just trying to find a decent and reliable alternative to Mr.Gates’s monopoly , something that can be good for Zoom conferencing ( using bluetooth headphones), and Antix was a best choice, with some bugs as well, for which I held hope since Antix-17, that with new releases there will be no cmst critical errors, no pulseaudio conflict with blueman and snaps supported ( which are working even on old zorin12 and linux mint) , but imho, antix developers keep rolling same bugs from version to version whereas MX developers are working on enhancing their product, and what surprises me more is they are the same team? ….most likely such team divided on lazy part and working part… and I am sorry, if i somehow, made some proud and lazy developers feel bad about my whinning, but hey, the fact is, Antix is becoming less and less usable with missing snapd support for youtube, spotify , netflix and many more modern apps that can employ on old hardware..I tried various flavors of linux distros, Elive, MInt, Elementary, Kali, and will keep exploring further, thank you very much for you suggestions.

                                Moderator
                                Brian Masinick

                                  I guess you didn’t know that the antiX developers are also a lot of the MX developers.

                                  Good luck over there.

                                  i knew it from the start, which makes me puzzled..why devs chose to have snapd support (systemd) on MX and refused to employ the same on Antix? if the same given team collaborates both projects, why excel one system and diminish the other? there must be a reason for just that…..installed MX21 , no dropping connman wifi so far, wifi performs great and there is no hassle with critical cmst errors, snapd installed without errors, conky even fancier that text mode on antix, youtube, iptv just flies….but yet bluetooth still sucks…

                                  The history between antiX and MX Linux has always been close.
                                  The first version of antiX was an offshoot of the predecessor to MX Linux – Simply MEPIS.
                                  Once the early antiX were built, anticapitalista redesigned the environment and emphasis.

                                  When MEPIS ceased development, anticapitalista assisted the MEPIS Lovers developers to create MX Linux, and there has always been cooperation and sharing between the two teams; they are distinct, but they also collaborate and share software.

                                  --
                                  Brian Masinick

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