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I did a presentation for my local user group meeting about the Live USB features of Antix/MX. Many thanks to DolphinOracle for his AWESOME videos. I used them in my presentation đ
I have here, a kinda friendly “Devil’s Advocate” question regarding Antix and Live USB from one of the LUG members. I’m going to post it here but would GREATLY appreciate any responses. So here it is! Many thanks for any responses!
—You asked me for a my question in writing too. Let me prefix this with
stating, that I’m simply trying to understand the “why” here. Why would
I want to use Antix (or MX) and particular why would I want to use this
method for USB based Linux vs. the other LiveUSB solutions out there?
When it comes to desktop use, I am most likely way outside the typical
end-user so I may be seeing challenges that aren’t there provided the
use-case for this.OSTREE based OSes have existed for 10+ years. It’s a rather proven
technology that’s in use for not only embedded devices but it’s how
Fedora’s Silverblue is done, but you’ll find a very similar but scaled
down version for LiveUSB images, a system I see duplicated on lots of
embedded devices: R/O system file system (usually an img file) that some
system call “firmware” – this image is a full rootfs, often bootable etc
so the image can be positioned on a usual boot devices. Once the system
boots a separate volume/file system is added a COW system, it turns the
system image in to full R/O and any change done to temporary files or
permanent configuration files are written to this new system. When you
get an update of the “firmware” it’s simply rolled into the partition
where the other image was (or you have support for more than one image
so failures don’t brick your system), and when the system boots the COW
is added on top again. This is targeted towards systems where you don’t
“dnf update” – all updates comes from a new image, and the COW is for
dynamic files, log files, configuration files etc. that you want to
preserve across upgrades. This makes making embedded devices using Linux
simple – and it doesn’t have any distro-dependencies.SilverBlue https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/download is Fedora’s
attempt to move this idea into the desktop. It is NOT created with
little memory in mind – it’s a full Fedora setup that defaults to GNOME
after all, but it is created with the idea of easy management and setup.
It’s OSTREE based and created/configured with running containers and
flatpaks in mind. In other words, users are not allowed to change system
files – they are managed through replacing the “system file” that OSTREE
mounts. Instead users install/instantiate containers where they can
change/set whatever they want – even older and conflicting versions of
system libraries in the system. The update is a single command that
replaces the system image.As to LiveUSBs I loved seeing a very different angle from what I’m used
to. If you look at (1) you’ll see what I mean by different. “Fedora
Media Writer” is all that is needed. I cannot remember what the same
type of tool is called on the Ubuntu side, but gone are the days of
needing to DD anything. WORSE, you had to use sudo to run your installer
– that raised alarms for me, we can definitely do better as it comes to
end-user tools. The Media Writer is a download, validate and write to
USB in one. As you can see from the attached screendump you pick “what
you want” and hit the “create live USB” button. The rest is automatic.
It will download (if you don’t have it already) and write to the USB all
without needing root rights. You can pick from all the spins available.
Or, when you become an advanced user, you can create your own “Live ISO”
that has the content you want, the configurations you want, to be
available out of the box. Provide that as a URL and others can now use
it too. I say all of this to make this question easier to understand:* What/who is targeted with MX and Antix’s many questions during
install? Understanding concepts like rootfs, file systems,
partitions/volumes etc. are all concepts non IT people will have issues
with, so if this is targeted towards IT users under what conditions does
this make sense? What’s the use-case for something this complex?Recall we’re talking USB based systems – so why would I need to save USB
images with customizations over and over again? Once the USB is created,
I can keep using it? Of course USB based OSes – something that only
exists and runs from the USB – are slow as molasses. USBs are not meant
to handle the writes needed to support a modern OS. So if you instead
move it all to RAM, what’s the point of talking how little RAM is used
by the OS running when the FS is all located in RAM too?* It’s been many years since I saw USB sticks with 4GB or less. What is
the use-case trying to make it all fit into 2MB? With Fedora’s Live
Image, if there’s enough space you get the option to setup a part of the
USB as a large COW for /home and other changes. In some cases I’ve had
/home mounting a local file system while the USB itself is
self-contained. This is something I can setup once I have installed the
USB – or the user can choose FUSE land to add user-only file systems later.* The desktops I use have VMs and/or containers running on them. The
idea of having to rsync these files on a regular basis scares me. Again,
from a use-case perspective is there a limited scope here? My general
fear is that “grandma” won’t have a clue how to use the features you
outlined, so even as a low-level user-workstations it seems you’ll need
regular IT help to keep it updated/managed? I get the feeling that the
use-case is not for permanent use, but something that you can easily
instantiate “in the field” and take down again when done, not something
you leave behind? And if that’s true, I don’t understand the “only a
few hundred MB of RAM” requirement – even the motel6 computer in the
lobby has more than 2GB of RAM – most likely 4 or 8GB.You mentioned mass installation at one point. I would definitely not use
LiveUSBs as a system admin in charge of hundreds or thousands of
workstations. That would be old fashioned PXE and a local repository,
with a management access to control each workstations with centralized
settings/configurations etc. To make something others can use, see my
comment about creating a custom ISO and making it available for
download. That’s not as hard as it may sound (2). And yeah, all the
spins provide their “source” in this manner – so if you like the
Electronics Workstation but want to add your own twist on it, it’s
really simple.Sorry, this became much longer than I wanted. The short version: Help me
understand the use-case for MX and Antix?1) https://silverblue.fedoraproject.org/download
2)
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-and-using-a-live-installation-image/- This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Danathar.
- This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Danathar.
Topic: Hello
Hi! I’m not new to Linux, but I’m a new user of AntiX. I’d suffered HD crashes on 3 different machines, using Debian 10, and decided “never again” for D10. I eventually bought a 32/64 “Core Duo” Dell Precision M6300 Windows laptop. A friend recommended AntiX, so I dl’d the AntiX 19.3 ISO’s for both 32 & 64 bit, dl’d Rufus for making bootable ISO USB’s, set up 2 USB’s, and tried them out. (32-bit, also used on my old XP desktop machine.)
I installed 32-bit Antix, & 32-bit Debian 11 onto the new used Precision’s HD in a dual-boot configuration. (I thought, maybe they’d fixed the D10 problems, in issuing D11?) 32-bit AntiX worked beautifully. 32-bit Debian 11 (“Bullseye”) crashed repeatedly, locking up the system. Every time I was forced to do a hard shut down via press & hold of the power button, it also crashed my external TrueCrypt-encrypted HD’s. The lockups were connected with opening text files in Pluma, as a triggering event. The mouse pointer continued to move, but the system didn’t react to mouse clicks, or to the keyboard. I quit using bullseye.
It was only after installing 32-bit AntiX onto the new Precision’s HD, that I discovered via the AntiX system info utility, that the Core Duo could also run in 64-bit mode. So, I replaced the 32-bit AntiX installation with a 64-bit installation – and, so far it hasn’t crashed even once. I also tried the 64-bit version of Bullseye – and, it crashed during the very first usage. Same failure as in the 32-bit version, with mouse pointer mobile, but the system incapable of reacting to clicks or keyboard. I quit using D11 on the spot, and haven’t gone back. AntiX is working beautifully, with only a few glitches.
The currently unresolved glitches in my 64-bit HD AntiX v19.3 installation include:
1) It’s skipping the login screen, during boot-up.
2) It’s not retaining the modified resolution setting, forcing me to reset the resolution during every boot. A side effect of this, is that all my desktop launchers get moved & shuffled every time I reset the resolution. I’ve finally stopped trying to keep them in a rational order…
You see, the Precision’s native mode is 1920×1200 pixels. In that mode, the mouse pointer and text cursor become almost invisible via being so tiny & thin. However, when I switch to 1440×900, the mouse pointer becomes almost easy to find on the screen, and the cursor in LibreOffice Writer becomes wide & tall enough to see. (I think LOW is defining the cursor size as an absolute # of pixels.)
3) All of the launchers I’ve placed on the Space-icewm (my favorite) desktop are either directories or files I use frequently. But, I haven’t figured out how to make a desktop launcher to trigger the VeraCrypt I found on the web, dl’d, & installed.
4) As an alternative to #3, I haven’t figured out yet, how to program the boot sequence to include launching VeraCrypt at startup.
Although it’s got its shortcomings, I’m quite grateful that I have AntiX to work with. Thank you!
- This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by scruffyeagle. Reason: Adding info