- This topic has 15 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated Aug 27-4:12 pm by AK-47.
March 31, 2018 at 3:48 am #8519Forum Adminanticapitalista
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.March 31, 2018 at 4:32 am #8523Membersuttercane
“We want to get on their social media, with passwords,” Mr. Kelly told members of the House Homeland Security Committee. “If they don’t want to cooperate, then you don’t come in.”
F*** them. I will spend my holiday somewhere else. They think they’re doing us a favour. There are far more interesting countries than US.
March 31, 2018 at 11:37 am #8556MemberX180A
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by suttercane.
Citizens of roughly 40 countries to which the United States ordinarily grants visa-free travel will not be affected by the requirement. Those countries include major allies like Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and South KoreaMarch 31, 2018 at 2:41 pm #8559Memberohh
Try going to Mecca if your not a believer.
Every matter requires prior knowledge.
- Du Mu
The Art of WarAugust 25, 2019 at 3:49 am #26304MemberModdIt
As far as I am aware this is not a forum for racial or religerous intolerance. If it was I would not be here.
I have been far worse treated by so called christians from USA. They put a death on judgement day code on my house and have threatened me several times.
I am White blond blue eyed. Have visited mosques been to Muslim festivals as a guest including one at the sultans palace in Selangor. Friends who are Buddhist have been to Mecca Privately, I have had no had no problems, be open, be straight explain why you are not considered unclean. Dońt be a bigot and you will find new friends. Certain extremist areas excepted but if you are there you should know about that
The thread was about entry to USA, my friend was refused because he would not open his business phone. He would be sacked isf he did, that device tracks all transactions and sends opening and closing codes. H works for a US computer industry giant. So much for exemptions.August 26, 2019 at 7:56 am #26366Forum Adminrokytnji
Yep. China won’t screen stuff. Been there. Done that. < insert sarcasm here >
But this is USA inform thread.
Good to know,
Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
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How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problemsAugust 26, 2019 at 8:39 am #26374MemberAK-47
I can appreciate their efforts to improve their national security, and a country has the right to decide who does and who doesn’t enter, but this is just plain idiotic and unnecessarily intrusive. What better way to start your holiday than to be automatically treated as a crook.
“This attempt to collect a massive amount of information on the social media activity of millions of visa applicants is yet another ineffective and deeply problematic Trump administration plan,” said Hina Shamsi, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project.
I agree it’s problematic, but I disagree with this reasoning. If they want to collect that information they have more than enough intelligence resources to do so. This screening measure just seems like security theater which is often done in some attempt to look like everything is under control. Much inconvenience in exchange for negligible security gains.August 26, 2019 at 4:01 pm #26391Memberolsztyn
With my great respect to anticapitalista who started this discussion I would like to point out that every sovereign nation has the right to defend security of own country and national identity with means available under circumstances. Whether the questioned means happens to be effective or not is a different story but the intent is there and perhaps no stronger measures were available or acceptable considering anti-american media in US and fifth column of ‘liberal’ anti-american politicians in Congress.
Just want to bring forth the historical example of why Greece (remember the founders of core European culture) who thanks to their strong national identity and pride were able to preserve this national identity under Ottoman empire, being in close proximity to Istambul, while much more remote areas such as Bosnia and Albania submitted completely.
I think than (greatly respected) anticapitalista had his own reason to bring up this topic for discussion but: Does not the US have the right to use available means (although limited by corrupt fifth column of traitors in the government and hostile mass media) to protect their country, facing a lesson that Western Europe (Germany, France) fell already victim to destruction of their nation’s fabric?
My question to the originator of this thread is: Have we forgotten the national pride of 300 Spartans to die for Greece, as well as Marathon and survival of national identity under Ottoman empire, etc.?
Would such subtle means be questioned in those times when Greece was under siege by invading enemy forces?August 26, 2019 at 4:34 pm #26392Forum Adminanticapitalista
@olsztyn – the link is about tourists/visitors, so there is no ‘threat’ to any ‘national identity’ (whatever that means).
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.August 26, 2019 at 5:16 pm #26393Memberolsztyn
@anticapitalista – Thank you for clarifying the focus. Admittedly I took this topic too far perhaps and I apologize for taking such liberty… Narrowing this topic to the core: It is important to prevent hostile ideology that aims to destruct your nation. In US case such sensitivity is augmented by the fact that many visitors have represented hostile ideology and therefore such monitoring means (whether proven effective or nor not much) are excused.
Greece was my just illustration of national pride to follow…August 26, 2019 at 7:21 pm #26399MemberAK-47
@olsztyn I think the term your looking for is about threats to national security rather than national identity.
I believe what Anti was trying to get across here is the intrusive nature of such a measure. They are requiring tourists and visitors to submit usernames and passwords, and it really isn’t excusable especially if there’s negligible security benefit.
I agree with much of your post, but first impressions are very important especially for tourists. This measure is really no different than being asked to hand the keys to your house so they can go to your home country search it. I appreciate proactive national security measures, but for negligible security gain they’re inconveniencing tourists unnecessarily and leaving them with a sour first impression.August 27, 2019 at 6:00 am #26411Memberolsztyn
Thank you AK-47 for correcting my terminology, carried too far…
I do agree such measure is painful from privacy perspective but I understand it is not applied for all and every country of origin. I do not think such measure is inexcusable under circumstances, considering not all tourists travel for sightseeing… I have seen with my own eyes (being at that time next to it) the destruction of the World Trade Center and killing 3,000 innocent people. This was not carried out by some peaceful local citizens but by ‘tourists’ who certainly did not come for sightseeing. Perhaps better scrutiny of background for hostile ideology could have prevented such a disaster and could have saved those 3,000 lives…August 27, 2019 at 6:34 am #26413MemberAK-47
I mostly agree with those sentiments @olsztyn and I remember hearing about 9/11 on television on the day it occurred back in 2001, as well as some other terrorist attacks and witnessing miscellaneous rotten behaviour myself, all of which resulted in significant and preventable loss of life. I’m not denying that there is a very good reason for the US to implement good measures to protect the sovereignty and security of the nation, but sometimes security theater can be a dangerous thing that breeds complacency.
To that end I wouldn’t have a problem with them vetting their social media for issues, however there are some flaws that need to be addressed:
1. Farcebook, Twatter, Youtube (henceforth known as YouTwitFace), are all based in the USA with US-owned companies. If the US gov really wants to vet visa applicants, there’s nothing stopping them from providing requests for data, no need to ask for usernames and passwords. This is the bit that leads me to believe this is all just security theater. A nefarious individual who doesn’t disclose usernames and passwords can slip past the radar.
2. It’s not like potential terrorists all use social media like that anyway, they often use other channels. Some use sites like 4chan, good luck getting usernames and passwords for a site where everyone is anonymous!
3. Some people like myself don’t have any YouTwitFace accounts. So if I was going to go to the US and not declare anything, there is possibility that they will not let me enter because they think I’m lying, when in reality I don’t use YouTwitFace.
4. Let’s take another means of exploiting this system: a nefarious individual goes to an allied country where they don’t have that requirement, gets a citizenship in that country, then goes to America to commit some terrorist act, all without having to declare social media credentials.
5. A case where there was enough intelligence but no action: the Boston Marathon bombings.
If they were to just scour the web for publicly-accessible posts that can be attributed to that individual, then I wouldn’t have any issue at all, this is definitely worth doing.
Having seen my fair share of shithole enclaves and nefarious individuals, I wholly support strict immigration laws and measures to improve the national security of a country, however care must be taken to ensure there’s an actual security benefit and not just intrusive/inconvenient security theater.
Realistically, any measure that relies on an individual disclosing or declaring things is essentially a liar magnet (i doubt a lot of terrorists are going to bother telling the truth), and should be used sparingly.
August 27, 2019 at 7:22 am #26420Memberolsztyn
- This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by AK-47.
Excellent points AK-47… There are many avenues to circumvent security measures and many holes in their implementation. Some of cases you brought up, such as Boston Marathon were a painful lesson and now there is more attention in result.
By the way, I do not use those YouTwitFace accounts either…August 27, 2019 at 2:20 pm #26431Memberolsztyn
I have had no had no problems, be open, be straight explain why you are not considered unclean. Dońt be a bigot
Please excuse me… I actually was glad this problematic topic has ended but I could not resist answering this point…
Infidels are required to explain they are not unclean to visit holy sites… Please take into account that such thing is not required when visiting Christian sites… So who is bigot here?
Strict requirements – I respect them profoundly. But we do not need fanatics on either side. We should be respectful of each other’s faith, however they should not include cutting off heads of infidels if they do not convert…
My predecessors (King Jan Sobieski’s army of 20,000) defeated Grand Vezier Kara Mustafa’s army of 300,000 at Vienna on September 11, 1683 and prevented taking over the entire Europe. However I also appreciate the mutual respect that followed…Integrity of your own and respect other’s faith…
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