A few easy suggestions from watching video reviews

[Moderator BobC]

A lot of video reviews are done by computer folks that don’t use antiX every day. I’m going to throw out a few of the things that caused trouble for them. I’m mostly looking for things that would be real easy to do that would make it more comfortable for them to adapt without even needing to think. I think these same comments would apply for normal people trying antiX for the first time as well.

1. We have “Software Installer” on the toolbar, but its called “Package Installer” on the Control Centre, App Select and System menu. I like that we have quick access to it from the toolbar. I see the titlebar says Package Installer when I run it. Could we call it “Package Installer” and change the tooltip to say “Install Software Packages and Applications”, and add it to the right click and main menus maybe underneath Control Centre? It seems pretty important.

2. The reviewer was very happy to find that Ctrl+Alt+T brought up the Terminal 🙂

3. He did not open any applications that needed a password. That was a shame because things like the package installer were not shown at all as a result. He wondered why he didn’t find GIMP on the Graphics menu for example, but would have found a wealth of packages he was familiar with had he opened the package installer. Would there be some easy way to recognize that we are running without a user id/password and just pop up a box to say that and provide the password for the user to enter?

4. We could provide better videos for antiX 21 in terms of explaining the more commonly used options. I see Dolphin Oracle didn’t make one, but maybe he is busy. I am thinking of making something, and can see where things could be improved technically, but wish I was better at making videos.

• This topic was modified 1 year ago by BobC.

[Member PPC]

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I agree with your first suggestion – tooltips are great, and applications should always be called the same, no matter where you run them from. There’s also an option so display the description on icewm’s menu – Xecure talked about that many moons back – it’s great to help people find out that an application does

On your 3rd point – I always thought that any kind of “app store” should only ask for password only when installing/removing stuff- after all it’s the way apt works in the terminal – “apt search” does not require password… Why do users have to type a password when searching for applications on Package Installer?

These are tiny usability tweaks that can go a long way for newbies…

Edit: I saw some “reviewers” stating that you can’t add new icons to the toolbar – that misconception would be available simply by having the Toolbar Icon Manager’s icon on the toolbar – of course the first place someone looks for an option to a new icon to something (a dock or a toolbar) is inside that thing… If it’s not there, most users don’t search anywhere else…
Also, a group of translators made available a group of fully localized .desktop files on some languages – if they are included in antiX, it would be easier to use in other languages other than english – most of the work is already done, it’s just a matter of incorporating those files in the correct packages

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by PPC.

[Moderator BobC]

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PPC, Yes, but I looked at the package installer code, and it expects to have root access all the time. That was why I suggested just giving the user the password they would need when they are just playing on a non-permanent system.

I am investigating the menu tooltip idea, now. I think that would be a friendly change, but would need to see the impact on older machines. Maybe it would slow the menu display and movement too much?

[Moderator BobC]

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And yes, I saw the one where they complained about not being able to add icons to the toolbar, too. If the icon to maintain it was ON the toolbar, that misconception would be eliminated.

[Moderator BobC]

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PPC, where did you see the discussion on the menu with Xecure?

I looked, and the menu doesn’t look to have tooltip capability, and it wouldn’t be so easy to add because the menu syntax would need to change to include it. It would be possible to include the GenericName and/or Comment field from the .desktop file in the menu text, but it might cause the menu lines to get pretty long.

Ideas? The desktop-menu program is written in python, BTW.

maybe the menu syntax could have the tooltip optionally included on the prog line somehow with a delimiter separating it from the menu text itself inside the same string? Just thinking allowed.

[Member PPC]

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BobC wrote:

It would be possible to include the GenericName and/or Comment field from the .desktop file in the menu text, but it might cause the menu lines to get pretty long.

Sorry if I didn’t express myself correctly – I was talking about included GenericName and/or Comment field in the menus, not menu “tooltips”- but I think that the toolbar tooltips should be 100% clear (they are generated from the app’s .desktop field- so that info should match the description shown in the menus)
For example on thing I like and make use of in FT10’s jgmenu is that, by default it shows the GenericName, if it’s different from the Name – it’s a smart way the dev came up with to have a menu that is easy to use, if you don’t know what an app does simply by looking at it’s “Name”).

[Moderator BobC]

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See request at IceWM https://github.com/bbidulock/icewm/issues/646

Yes, the GenericName could be added by desktop-menu. Perhaps that could be a setting in desktop-session.conf. To add a tooltip with the Comment would need code changes in IceWM.

Yes, names like Arandr and Geany on a menu don’t tell people much about what they are clicking. The one reviewer didn’t know what arandr was.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Hello BobC and PPC.

This topic brings me back to something I’ve been writing for almost two years here on this forum, that antiX needs to be more didactic. At the time, still someone made fun of me.

Come on…

Recently, a newcomer to the forum and antiX tried to remove (or uninstall) antiX by clicking the “antiX autoremove” menu. Is this user a native English speaker by any chance? I don’t know if the antiX texts are clear enough and understandable to ALL natives of the English language.

Galculator, would that be a typo?
What is Leafpad, ConnMan, Ceni, SearchMonkey, CherryTree, Mirage, Dillo, ROX Filer, SpaceFM or zzzFM, etc?

Does the user need to be a fortune teller or do they need to search the internet for what each of these names mean?

I managed to solve a part of this “communication problem or failure” in adapting the Brazilian Portuguese language in several translations that I reviewed on Transifex, some examples we have in antiX 21 are: packageinstaller, icewm-toolbar-icon-manager, mx- samba-config (from MX Linux), etc.

BobC, for you to read the automatic translation of the text models that I built in Brazilian Portuguese, you will need to have access to the official Transifex and contribs. If you read the automatic translation of my texts into your language, if most of the texts are understandable in your language, even with machine translation, then it means that the communication was successful.

I wrote in another topic “I make an even bigger appeal, we (antiX community) urgently need the natives of the languages ​​“en_US” and “en_GB” to review the Transifex texts, especially in the programs where the English language texts were written by non-native English speakers.”

So far I have not seen native speakers of “en_US” and “en_GB” revising or improving the original texts to make them more didactic and understandable for anyone to read and understand easily. (This is not a criticism, it’s a warning about how communication can be improved.)

“A small example where the texts can be improved are the texts of entries 19 and 88 of the official Transifex iso-snapshot file.

(Original text in English language)
“Resetting accounts (for distribution to others)”

I understand today (2022-03-08) that it is equivalent to “Resetting the accounts and passwords of the root and demo users (to distribute the ISO image to other people).”, that is, how a translator manages to guess what in fact an action will be taken if it is not written in the text?”

Another work in progress is the Brazilian Portuguese language revision of all files .desktop that are on GitLab and Transifex contribs. English language texts could be revised or improved by native speakers of “en_US” and “en_GB” languages. How many people would benefit from this important work on .desktop files?

Why is it that the anticapitalist found himself “forced” to include the CMST (Graphic Interface of ConnMan) in the boot of antiX 19.4, 19.54 and 21?

The names of the programs and what they do are only obvious to veterans, for beginners it’s kind of a guessing game.

What does “Chroot Rescue Scan” or “Feh” do?

Reading the topics I linked in this text complements my arguments about how to make antiX Linux more didactic/educational.

– – – – –

Olá BobC e PPC.

Este tópico me remete a algo que eu venho escrevendo há quase dois anos aqui neste fórum, que o antiX precisa ser mais didático. Na época, ainda alguém tirou sarro de mim.

Vamos lá…

Recentemente, um recém chegado aqui no fórum e no antiX tentou remover (ou desinstalar) o antiX com o clique no menu “antiX autoremove”. Por acaso este usuário é nativo do idioma Inglês? Eu não sei se os textos do antiX são suficientemente claros e compreensíveis a TODOS os nativos do idioma Inglês.

Galculator, por acaso seria um erro de digitação?
O que é Leafpad, ConnMan, Ceni, SearchMonkey, CherryTree, Mirage, Dillo, ROX Filer, SpaceFM ou zzzFM, etc?

O usuário precisa ser um adivinho ou precisa ficar buscando na internet o que cada um deste nomes significam?

Eu consegui resolver uma parte deste “problema ou falha de comunicação” na adaptação do idioma Português do Brasil em várias traduções que eu revisei no Transifex, alguns exemplos que temos no antiX 21 são: packageinstaller, icewm-toolbar-icon-manager, mx-samba-config (do MX Linux), etc.

BobC, para você ler a tradução automática dos modelos de textos que eu construí em idioma Português do Brasil, você precisará ter aceso ao Transifex oficial e ao contribs. Se você ler a tradução automática dos meus textos para o seu idioma, se a maioria dos textos estiverem compreensíveis em seu idioma, mesmo com a tradução de uma máquina, então significa que a comunicação ocorreu com sucesso.

Eu escrevi no outro tópico “Eu faço um apelo ainda maior, nós (comunidade antiX) precisamos urgentemente de que os nativos dos idiomas “en_US” e “en_GB” revisem os textos do Transifex, em especial nos programas onde os textos em idioma Inglês foram escritos por pessoas não nativas do idioma Inglês.”

Até agora eu não vi os nativos dos idiomas “en_US” e “en_GB” revisando ou melhorando os textos originais para se tornarem mais didáticos e compreensíveis para qualquer pessoa poder ler e compreender facilmente. (Isto não é uma crítica, é um alerta sobre como a comunicação pode ser melhorada.)

“Um pequeno exemplo onde os textos podem ser melhorados, são os textos das entradas 19 e 88 do arquivo iso-snapshot do Transifex oficial.

(Texto original em idioma Inglês)
“Resetting accounts (for distribution to others)”

Eu compreendo hoje (08-03-2022) que equivale a “Redefinindo as contas e as senhas dos usuários root e demo (para distribuir a imagem ISO para outras pessoas).”, ou seja, como um tradutor consegue adivinhar o que de fato uma ação será feita se não está escrito no texto?”

Outro trabalho que está em andamento é a revisão em idioma Português do Brasil de todos os arquivos .desktop que estão no GitLab e no Transifex contribs. Os textos em idioma Inglês poderiam ser revisados ou melhorados pelos nativos dos idiomas “en_US” e “en_GB”. Quantas pessoas seriam beneficiadas com este importante trabalho nos arquivos .desktop?

Por que será que o anticapitalista se viu “obrigado” incluir o CMST (Interface Gráfica do ConnMan) na inicialização do antiX 19.4, 19.54 e no 21?

Os nomes dos programas e o que eles fazem, só são óbvios para os veteranos, para os inciantes é uma espécie de jogo de adivinhação.

O que será que o “Chroot Rescue Scan” ou o “Feh” fazem?

A leitura dos tópicos que eu vinculei neste texto complementam as minhas argumentações sobre como tornar o antiX Linux mais didático/educacional.

[Member ModdIt]

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Hi Marcelo,
in part new users, applies to windows too need a bit of time to get used to what a system offers and how to use it.If one of my users says he does not knw what Galculator is I may well tell him to ask his mom. Knowing he will get some lip from her.

Take a look how many users posting in English show any signs of manners or simple gratitude. Try to fix simplest problems themselves, no. they write long bitching posts on the forum.

I am honestly worried about the future, what happens when the total spoon feeding continues. Humans are generaly lazy, if they can get someone else to think for them they will. I do not say RTFM is the answer but I do expect users to figure out how to use the system others created in countless hours of hard work, for free

And I am Intensly grateful for all antiX and hard working supporters and devs provide.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Why don’t these names cause issues?
Chrome, firefox, thunderbird

So far I have not seen native speakers of “en_US” and “en_GB” revising or improving the original texts to make them more didactic and understandable for anyone to read and understand easily. (This is not a criticism, it’s a warning about how communication can be improved.)

Because that’s the way programmers work. For example, the writer of cherrytree wanted to call it cherrytree so who are we to change it?

Actually this has gone way off topic from the original post.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by anticapitalista.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member PPC]

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anticapitalista wrote:

this has gone way off topic from the original post.

Allow me to respectfully disagree- I consider that the main point of the OP was suggestions to improve antiX’s usability (from problems perceived when watching YouTubers review it) – Bob mentions that one reviewer didn’t seem to know what arand even was…
Marcelo’s point does make sense – but not in the sense of changing the application’s name- I think the main suggestion here was to include app’s description in the menu – so non Linux geeks know what something called “cherrytree” does… In an ideal world new users would just launch app-select and explore every single one of the entries listed there, reading it’s description, learning about all the options (in order to be able to do this, the .desktop files should be fully localized)… But we live in the world were many people try to assemble ikea furniture without even looking at the instructions, so… Having a “in your face” short description of every app listed in the menu would probably be the best way to make (both new and old) users more aware of what menu entries do…

EDIT: this suggestion can be considered off topic, yes, but it’s linked to my suggestion of using app-select to learn about what applications do – I never noticed app-select (one of the best antiX only apps) has one missing feature! It does not search in (or display) the GenericName of apps – end result – if I search for “screen” in an app that looks into GenericName (such as jgmenu)- I get arandr (that has the GenericName “Screen Settings”), but if I search for “Screen” in app-select I get nothing (well, in my case I get Flameshot, that is installed in my system and has “Screen” in it’s description, but you get the point).

Ex: What does GRsync do? Sync a gyroscope? Nope.. I’m glad it has a more friendly name (that comes up on jgmenu) – that lets users know that’s a tool to sync files…

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by PPC.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Sorry, I was looking at a wrong post – the one about ytfzf and thumbnails.

Ignore my off-topic comment.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member ModdIt]

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autoremove and deb installer were considered questionable, now we know about them,
by my only available and fairly experienced user.
We are quarantined so I can not just grab a neighbours kid.

My personal preference for new users has always been a cheat sheet.
First line is.
You can, Du Kannst
Also have a few bash aliases for assisting with package management.

If the menus get more complicated with further tool tips I bet that will trigger
the bloat clowns. Next part is a cultural factor, persons from some parts of the world are
afraid to try new things others who have always used tech gadgets just try things.

Biggest real world example an android phone, like being thrown in to deep water. Crazy app names,
no handbook worth reading. And we all manage.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Why don’t these names cause issues?
Chrome, firefox, thunderbird

I’ve adapted all the texts, without exception. From those with world-renowned names to those created by the antiX community. The intention is to guarantee the communication and understanding of most Brazilians.

Because that’s the way programmers work. For example, the writer of cherrytree wanted to call it cherrytree so who are we to change it?

I understand that the “father of the child” (whoever created it) can name it whatever he wants, no matter how weird the name may be. But if we can make it easy, then why complicate it.

What is the cherrytree for? Or, what does cherrytree do?

I don’t know what the ideal structure of the English language looks like, so I don’t know if the automatic translator is showing me correctly. I can quote the text template in my language. In the same way that I adapt the machine translation text from English to Brazilian Portuguese, the adaptation from Brazilian Portuguese to English may be necessary, but has to be reviewed by a native English speaker.

They originate in English language:

Name=CherryTree
Comment=Hierarchical Note Taking

Brazilian Portuguese adaptation:

Name[pt_BR]=Organizador de Notas CherryTree
Comment[pt_BR]=Organizador de notas hierárquicas com recursos de texto rico, destaque de sintaxe e armazenamento de dados em um único arquivo XML ou SQLite.

Suggestion for English language (native English proofreading required):

Name=CherryTree Hierarchical Note Taking
Comment=Hierarchical note organizer with rich text capabilities, syntax highlighting and data storage in a single XML or SQLite file.

The original English name has been kept, I have included two or three words before or after the name, this feature can make a lot of difference when a user looks at the menu and reads what CherryTree does or proposes to do.

The comment needs to have more information, it needs to have more details and information. If any information in the text is wrong, all necessary improvements would be very welcome, I built this text with research I did on the internet, it could be that the comment is wrong.

Has anyone read the topics I mentioned in my previous text #81555 https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/a-few-easy-suggestions-from-watching-video-reviews/#post-81555?

Have you seen the .desktop files? In GitLab you don’t need authentication (username and password) to read the files like in Transifex.

And I am Intensly grateful for all antiX and hard working supporters and devs provide.

ModdIt, I am also extremely grateful to the creator of antiX and all the people who donate their time and knowledge towards the constant improvement of antiX.

As antiX is different in many aspects, it is better than many GNU/Linux distributions, so I think antiX can be better even in the communication (which is done through texts) between the operating system and the end user.

If I mastered the English language, the communication between us would be much easier, it would be easier for me to explain my suggestions to you. I hope that the automatic translation will not destroy my good intention.

– – – – –

Why don’t these names cause issues?
Chrome, firefox, thunderbird

Eu adaptei todos os textos, sem exceção. Desde dos programas que possuem nomes conhecidos mundialmente até os que programas criados pela comunidade antiX. A intenção é garantir a comunicação e a compreensão da maioria dos Brasileiros.

Because that’s the way programmers work. For example, the writer of cherrytree wanted to call it cherrytree so who are we to change it?

Eu compreendo que o “pai da criança” (quem criou) pode dar o nome que quiser, por mais esquisito que possa ser o nome. Mas se podemos facilitar, então porque complicar.

Para que serve o cherrytree? Ou, o que o cherrytree faz?

Eu não sei como é a estrutura ideal do idioma Inglês, então, eu não sei se o tradutor automático está me mostrando corretamente. Eu posso citar o modelo do texto em meu idioma. Da mesma forma que eu adapto o texto da tradução automática do idioma Inglês para o idioma Português do Brasil, a adaptação do idioma Português do Brasil para idioma Inglês pode ser necessária, mas tem que ser revisada por um nativo do idioma Inglês.

Originam em idioma Inglês:

Name=CherryTree
Comment=Hierarchical Note Taking

Adaptação para o idioma Português do Brasil:

Name[pt_BR]=Organizador de Notas CherryTree
Comment[pt_BR]=Organizador de notas hierárquicas com recursos de texto rico, destaque de sintaxe e armazenamento de dados em um único arquivo XML ou SQLite.

Sugestão para idioma Inglês (é necessário a revisão do texto por um nativo do idioma Inglês):

Name=CherryTree Hierarchical Note Taking
Comment=Hierarchical note organizer with rich text capabilities, syntax highlighting and data storage in a single XML or SQLite file.

O nome original em Inglês foi mantido, eu incluí duas ou três palavras antes ou depois do nome, este recurso pode fazer muita diferença quando um usuário olha o menu e lê o que o CherryTree faz ou se propõe a fazer.

O comentário precisa ter mais informações, precisa ter mais detalhes e informações. Se alguma informação do texto estiver errada, será muito bem-vinda todas as melhorias necessárias, eu construí este texto com pesquisas que eu fiz na internet, pode ser que esteja errado o comentário.

Alguém leu os tópicos que eu mencionei na meu texto anterior #81555 https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/a-few-easy-suggestions-from-watching-video-reviews/#post-81555?

Vocês viram os arquivos .desktop? No GitLab não precisa de autenticação (usuário e senha) para ler os arquivos como ocorre no Transifex.

And I am Intensly grateful for all antiX and hard working supporters and devs provide.

ModdIt, eu também sou extremamente grato ao criador do antiX e a todas as pessoas que doam o seu tempo e conhecimento em prol da melhoria constante do antiX.

Como o antiX é diferente em diversos aspectros, é melhor do que diversas distribuições GNU/Linux, então eu penso que o antiX pode ser melhor inclusive na comunicação (que é feita por meio dos textos) entre o sistema operacional e o usuário final.

Se eu dominasse o idioma Inglês, a comunicação entre nós seria muito mais fácil, seria mais fácil para eu explicar para vocês as minhas sugestões. Eu espero que a tradução automática não destrua a minha boa intenção.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Application names, no matter what they are, should remain the same. The DESCRIPTION of what they do may be freely translated.

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Brian Masinick

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