A few easy suggestions from watching video reviews

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Another thing – antiX policy is to not install anything or make any changes to the user’s home directory.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member Robin]

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As far as I know apt packages should never touch the users home folder directly. (It is said not to be welcome in debian packages). So there is no established method to do this in the package structure itself (apt itself will never copy something in this place). Nevertheless, if it is really needed (like e.g. in case of a hexchat python script which would only get started by hexchat in case it is present in hexchat config dir within the users home folder) you can do it anyway in the postinstall script. But as said, debian people consider this kind if illegitim.

edit:
@anticapitalista you typed way faster than me 🙂 Thanks for this confirmation.

Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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anticapitalista wrote:

Another thing – antiX policy is to not install anything or make any changes to the user’s home directory.

Yes, this is a good and important point: while one one hand any user has the right to do whatever they want to do, either to their system or to their own directory, it’s important for the system itself to confine itself to “system” related activities. The only thing the system can do on the user’s behalf, but only at the direction of either the user themselves or the appointed systems administrator, is to create the user account and the initial user directory along with any initialization that the user themselves has specified (or requested on their behalf). Otherwise the delineation between “system” and “user” becomes distorted and doesn’t properly represent the overall system design.

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Brian Masinick

[Moderator BobC]

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The idea was that for antiX controlled packages, we could just improve the Name field of the .desktop file in the antiX package, and for non-antiX desktop entries needing improvement, the enhanced version would be put in the antiX controlled subfolder /usr/share/applications/antix that is on the search path in front of /usr/share/applications so the enhanced version would be the one used to build the menu entry.

Packages added by the user would get whatever .desktop entry and Name came with the package.

I tested building the menu with it structured that way.

anti, If that (or whatever method you like better) will work and you need someone to assist getting the apps that are included on the menu in the distro improved, let me know and I do whatever I can to help.

If not, well, we tried…

[Forum Admin SamK]

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Basing future changes to the distro on the superficial opinions of self appointed reviewers is highly questionable. Such reviewers are not interested in the distro. Their primary focus is on producing content. The easy way to do that is to work to a preconceived idea of what a distro should be and what it should contain. Anything beyond those preconceptions makes their task more difficult, which in turn means more work and research and ultimately less time to produce other content. The easy way to work around their ignorance is to make lazy off-hand criticisms expressing a personal opinions.

One should also question the value to any given user who places trust in such superficial opinions. If they expect only apps they are already familiar with, there are other OSs that more closely meet such an expectation. If they are unwilling to do some basic research this distro is not for them. Any user who wants to be spoon fed about things they find unfamiliar will not remain a user of this distro. Adding a short description to a launcher will not satisfy them as they will still need to do some exploration/research. If a user relies upon others to do research for them they are highly unlikely to stay with antiX.

For existing antiX users, having descriptions each time an app is launched will become extremely tedious very quickly.

Any individual or group of antiX users are free to do whatever they wish with their own systems, after all it is your distro, do it your way. Discussing an idea is OK, provided there is not an expectation it is to become part of the distro, especially when it is based on a questionable concept.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Anticapitalista, can the folder containing the .desktop files that will be used as a template be stored in the /usr/share/antiX folder?

Both the /usr/share/antiX folder, the /usr/share/applications or /usr/share/applications/antix folders require root permissions, this way it would not interfere with the user’s folder and would be under the control of the administrators. antiX.

Thank you all very much for understanding the importance of the menu texts that are generated by the .desktop files.

Note: Calciumsodium, the file /usr/share/antiX/equivalents.html has a list containing the name of some antiX programs, a description and a name of an equivalent Windows XP program. I found this file by accident and it helped me a lot in the transition from Windows to antiX.

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Anticapitalista, a pasta contendo os arquivos .desktop que serão utilizados como modelo podem ser armazenadas na pasta /usr/share/antiX?

Tanto a pasta /usr/share/antiX, quanto as pastas /usr/share/applications ou /usr/share/applications/antix necessitam de permissões de root, desta forma não iria interferir na pasta do usuário e estará sob controle dos administradores do antiX.

Muito obrigado a todos por compreenderem a importância dos textos dos menus que são gerados pelos arquivos .desktop.

Obs.: Calciumsodium, o arquivo /usr/share/antiX/equivalents.html possui uma lista contendo o nome de alguns programas do antiX, uma descrição e um nome de um programa equivalente do Windows XP. Este arquivo eu econtrei sem querer e me ajudou muito na transição do Windows para o antiX.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@samk:

Bravo!

Very concise; thank you for setting us all straight on this matter.

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Brian Masinick

[Member PPC]

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samk – you made excellent points, But I think there are several ideas in this thread:
– youtubers reviewing antiX will probably reflect what most people think of when they try out antiX, Any “difficulties” they encounter, will be faced by most people too. I’m not ashamed to once again state here that for a couple of months or so I suffered with using rox without ever really getting the hang of it, when I first began using antiX. I even installed another FM that I was used to, only to later find out antiX already included Spacefm. A bit more of time went by before I noticed I could make Spacefm the default FM (before that, every time I popped a USB thumb-drive in my pc’s I closed the rox window that appeared and opened Spacefm). A veryyy long time went by before I realized that antiX did not perform any automatic updates too. All that happened even considering that I was a long time Linux user (for over 10 – 15 years) when I began using this OS- that was used to the terminal, to editing config files, etc…

Most people are not dumb, but most people won’t read long manuals before starting to use an OS. Most people won’t open, one by one, every single application available in a menu just to check out what it does. To some extent an OS expects that people do have to learn how to use it… But at the end of the day, a computer, it’s just a tool, and tools were invented to save work, not force people to learn what otherwise is “useless” info in their lives. People have enough to worry about on their day to day lives, they don’t need to stress out learning the command line if they don’t want to. True that they *should* have a basic grasp of the command line, but they should not be *forced* into it. People want to waste time clicking away a dozen mouse clicks when a single line of commands in the terminals would be enough? fine by me. A recent study showed that about 90% of computer users only know how to do very basic tasks...

-There are some ideas I think are good here – for example – making sure that the 90 or so .desktop files in the antiX applications subfolder do have Names that identify the program but also a short Generic name too, not a full blown description, if the name is not clear enough – extreme example: recently someone posted here, trying to get help to “uninstall antiX” – that person assumed that an OS was just a regular application that could be uninstalled and also assumed that “antiX autoremove” would say what it seems to say- automatically remove antiX from the hard drive – So if the name was something like “antiX autoremove (remove leftover packages)” or something similar, it would be clear at first sight what that app does… Like I said, an extreme example- but that user made a perfectly rational interpretation of the app’s name! 2 or 3 words more on the .desktop’s would make life way simpler for newbies, while making not dent on old time users – I’ve been using FirefoX since it’s single digit versions- I do not care if it’s identified as “Firefox” or “Firefox web browser”, etc… What I would feel would be “stupid” would be something like “Firefox – Left click here once to open a Web Browser. A Web browser is an application that renders Web Pages, [add explanation of what a web page is to make it even more ridiculous}-

Edit : a very good example of what difference the name displayed in the menu makes would be the Persistence menu entries, recently revamped to be clearer – I used antiX persistence for years, and I’m also not ashamed to say that every time I click ta Persistence menu entry, some 90% of the time I clicked the wrong option – now the name’s of each entry is absolutely clear (at least in Portuguese)

P.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by PPC.
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by PPC.
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by PPC.

[Member blur13]

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SamK,

Well said! You captured my sentiments exactly. It’s a slippery slope because no matter how much explanation you provide you could always provide more. “HexChat IRC online chat” begs the question, whats IRC? “Transmission BitTorrent client”, whats a BitTorrent client? And so forth. Catering to the lowest common denominator makes sense when you’re selling a mass market product, ie Windows or MacOS. It makes no sense for a niche linux distribution. One reason for switching to linux/antiX is to get away from the “one size fits all” mainstream madness. When everything is customizable that adds complexity. That requires some initial effort to learn the basics.

[Member ModdIt]

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Thanks Samk and blur13, IMHO very balanced and sensible posts.

During my covid quarantine I have looked at every you tube review of antiX
(and a few of MX I could find), the majority hastily thrown together clickbait.

What I do understand is the problem troubling MarcelloCripe. but staying out of
the further discussion.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by ModdIt.

[Member calciumsodium]

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marcelocripe wrote:

the file /usr/share/antiX/equivalents.html has a list containing the name of some antiX programs, a description and a name of an equivalent Windows XP program. I found this file by accident and it helped me a lot in the transition from Windows to antiX.

In my opinion, the file /usr/share/antiX/installed-packages.txt in that same directory contains the information that is discussed in this thread. It has the list of all the programs installed in the system in alphabetical order. And also just as important, it has the description of their functions. I had to maximize the window for this file in order to see the descriptions. But they are there. This file is very educational. The contents of the equivalents.html file are not alphabetical, unfortunately.

Perhaps this installed-packages.txt file can also be copied to a more easily accessible location, like the help menu? Users can find out the function of an installed program from the help menu. Just a thought.

[Member marcelocripe]

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PPC, thank you very much for clarifying once again the intentions of the need for improvement in the texts of the .desktop files.

“HexChat IRC online chat” begs the question, whats IRC?

For an average user, the part of the text that matters is “online chat”, for the user, it doesn’t matter if it’s HexChat or any other program, the important thing is that it works and preferably it’s fast. But you have to keep the name of the program.

“Transmission BitTorrent client”

That’s why I believe it is necessary for several natives of the same language to make their suggestions and improvements in the texts. It is not interesting that just one person does everything alone. The more people who present their considerations, the better the construction of the text that pleases most people or can be understood by most people of the respective language. I, for example, always put the texts to be translated or adapted to Brazilian Portuguese under discussion in the Telegram and WhatsApp groups of antiX users in Brazil, sometimes we make video conference calls to discuss antiX translations in a group and MX Linux.

And so forth. Catering to the lowest common denominator makes sense when you’re selling a mass market product, ie Windows or MacOS.

These big companies offer “comfort” and “practicality” with a few clicks, the user feels in his “comfort zone”. Given this reality, why can’t antiX be made more understandable? What’s wrong with having written “zzzFM Filer Manager” or “ROX Filer Manager”? For people who already know what these programs are, it won’t change anything, it won’t make any difference, but for those who have never heard about zzzFM or ROX Filer, it will be extremely important information. This is nothing more than clarity in communication between developers/programmers and the end user.

The translations open the borders of the antiX operating system to the entire planet Earth, the constant improvements of the antiX texts will make it much easier to use. antiX evolves all the time, every month we have new programs that are developed by different people from here in the antiX community. Not all programmers are native speakers of English, so it makes sense to review and improve texts by native English speakers. We still have to remember the English language variants, therefore, if there are proofreaders of texts in en_GB, en_US, etc., antiX and antiX users gain the most from this.

I wish I could review the ridiculous translations that have been made to Brazilian Portuguese from Google Chrome Internet Browsers, Chromium, etc. But, that doesn’t just depend on my will.

Calciumsodium, I would very much like everyone to have free time (which I don’t) and patience to read manuals and basic instruction files (I have some patience, but I lack free time). But this is not the reality for everyone, most people do not have free time, the responsibilities of life with family and work take this time away from people. What I notice with the contact I have with several different types of users is that people want to click, read, understand and execute what the program proposes to do, when they don’t know what the program does, it just becomes more a program in the unused menu.

There are several options:
– keep everything the way it is.
-always improve.
-stop in time.
-lose users.
-have more users.
-the community grow.
-the community decrease (this option is very dangerous, the distribution may end and we don’t want that).
-etc.

I prefer the options: always improving, having more users and the community growing. One of the ways we can do this is by translating as much as possible into as many languages ​​as possible and having texts that are understandable and easy to understand. Besides, of course, having antiX stable, cohesive as it already is.

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PPC, muito obrigado por esclarecer mais uma vez as intenções das necessidade de melhoria nos textos dos arquivos .desktop.

“HexChat IRC online chat” begs the question, whats IRC?

Para um usuário comum, a parte do texto que interessa é “online chat”, para o usuário, pouco importa se é o HexChat ou qualquer outro programa, o importante é que funcione e de preferência seja rápido. Mas é preciso manter o nome do programa.

“Transmission BitTorrent client”

É por isso que eu acredito que seja necessário que vários nativos do mesmo idioma façam as suas sugestões e melhorias nos textos. Não é interessante que apenas uma pessoa faça tudo sozinho. Quanto mais pessoas apresentarem as suas considerações, melhor será a construção do texto que agrade a maioria das pessoas ou que possa ser compreendido pela maioria das pessoas do respectivo idioma. Eu, por exemplo, sempre coloco os textos a serem traduzidos ou adaptados para o idioma Português do Brasil em discussão nos grupos de Telegram e WhatsApp de usuários do antiX do Brasil, as vezes fazemos chamadas de vídeo conferência para tratar em grupo as traduções do antiX e do MX Linux.

And so forth. Catering to the lowest common denominator makes sense when you’re selling a mass market product, ie Windows or MacOS.

Estas grandes empresas oferecem “conforto” e “praticidade” com poucos cliques, o usuário se sente na sua “zona de conforto”. Diante desta realidade, por que o antiX não pode ser tornar mais compreensível? Qual será o mal de ter escrito “zzzFM Filer Manager” ou “ROX Filer Manager”? Para as pessoas que já sabem o que são estes programas, não mudará nada, não fará diferença alguma, mas para quem nunca ouviu falar sobre o zzzFM ou o ROX Filer, será uma informação de extrema importância. Isso nada mais é do que a clareza na comunicação entre os desenvolvedores/programadores e o usuário final.

As traduções abrem as fronteiras do sistema operacional antiX para todo o planeta Terra, as melhorias constantes dos textos do antiX o tornarão muito mais fácil de ser utilizado. O antiX evolui o tempo todo, todos os meses temos programas novos que são desenvolvidos por diversas pessoas daqui da comunidade antiX. Nem todos os programadores são nativos do idioma Inglês, por tanto, faz sentido a revisão e a melhoria dos textos por nativos do idioma Inglês. Temos que nos lembrar ainda das variantes do idioma Inglês, por tanto, se houver revisores dos textos em en_GB, en_US, etc., quem mais ganha com isso é o antiX e os usuários do antiX.

Eu gostaria de poder revisar as traduções ridículoas que foram feitas para o idioma Português do Brasil dos Navegadores de Internet Google Chrome, do Chromium, etc. Mas, isso não depende apenas da minha vontade.

Calciumsodium, eu gostaria muito que todas as pessoas tivessem tempo livre (o que eu não tenho) e paciência para ler manuais e aquivos de instruções básicas (eu tenho alguma paciência, mas me falta tempo livre). Mas esta não é a realidade de todos, a maioria das pessoas não possuem tempo livre, as responsabilidades da vida com a família e o trabalho tiram este tempo das pessoas. O que eu percebo com o contato que eu tenho com vários tipos de usuários diferentes, é que as pessoas querem clicar, ler, compreender e executar o que o programa se propõe a fazer, quando não sabem o que o programa faz, vira apenas mais um programa no menu sem utilização.

Exitem várias opções:
-manter tudo do jeito que está.
-melhorar sempre.
-parar no tempo.
-perder usuários.
-ter mais usuários.
-a comunidade crescer.
-a comunidade diminuir (esta opção é muito perigosa, pode ocorrer o fim da distribuição e não queremos isso).
-etc.

Eu prefiro as opções: melhorar sempre, ter mais usuários e a comunidade crescer. Uma das formas de podermos fazer isso é traduzir o máximo possível para o maior número de idiomas e ter textos compreensíveis e fáceis de entender. Além, é claro, ter o antiX estável, coeso do jeito que ele já é.

[Moderator BobC]

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I have given up on the original topic. I guess asking Zebras to change their stripes is just too much!

OT:

Marcelo, I will try to come up with a tweaked version of the menu generator. When the comment needs to be included, how many characters should it be limited to? It seems to me that we could truncate it and end the line with “…” to let the user know that the text to display was too long.

Logic as follows:
If Name < 3 words
If generic name not contained in name
Name = Name – GenericName
else
Name = Name – Comment truncated [if truncated …]

Let me know if that logic looks reasonable 🙂

[Member marcelocripe]

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I have given up on the original topic. I guess asking Zebras to change their stripes is just too much!

I laughed a lot… But I prefer to keep believing that everything can be improved and it’s only not improved when people don’t want to.

Marcelo, I will try to come up with a tweaked version of the menu generator. When the comment needs to be included, how many characters should it be limited to? It seems to me that we could truncate it and end the line with “…” to let the user know that the text to display was too long.

I tested the biggest menu containing Portuguese language text of all (space-fluxbox.desktop and iso-snapshot.desktop) on an 800×600 monitor and still not truncated. The submenus move to the side with the most screen space available. I don’t know who programmed it, but this person is a genius!

Let me know if that logic looks reasonable

Therefore, I believe that this programming may not be necessary. Could anyone else help simulate a menu with a gigantic text just for testing purposes in a resolution of 800×660. If necessary, even today I’ll send you a screen capture by private message simulating this test at a resolution of 800×660.

– – – – –

I have given up on the original topic. I guess asking Zebras to change their stripes is just too much!

Eu ri muito… Mas eu prefiro continuar acreditando que tudo pode ser melhorado e só não é melhorado quando as pessoas não querem.

Marcelo, I will try to come up with a tweaked version of the menu generator. When the comment needs to be included, how many characters should it be limited to? It seems to me that we could truncate it and end the line with “…” to let the user know that the text to display was too long.

Eu testei os maiores menu contendo texto em idioma Português de todos (space-fluxbox.desktop e iso-snapshot.desktop) em um monitor de 800×600 e mesmo assim não ficaram truncados. Os submenus se deslocam para o lado que estiver mais espaço disponível na tela. Eu não sei quem é que programou, mas esta pessoa é um gênio!

Let me know if that logic looks reasonable

Por isso, eu acredito que talvez não seja necessário esta programação. Será que mais alguém poderia ajudar a simular um menu com um textos gigantesco só para efeito de teste em uma resolução 800×660. Se for necessário, ainda hoje eu te envio por mensagem particular uma captura de tela simulando este teste uma resolução 800×660.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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“Some day” this might become a good “unofficial side project” for an interested person who has the curiosity to experiment and the willingness to share their idea and effort with others, but for now, I think some of our helpful minds are “seeing stripes”, tired, or otherwise occupied. Thank you all for maintaining a good conversation here; if there is future interest this thread would be a good place to “reference” for some good ideas.

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Brian Masinick

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