Antix 19.2 ctrl+ alt not working in IceWM with FR keymap

Forum Forums General Hardware Antix 19.2 ctrl+ alt not working in IceWM with FR keymap

  • This topic has 52 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated May 15-9:06 pm by Robin.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 53 total)
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  • #106731
    Member
    Wallon

      There is an Algerian Azerty keyboard in Debian 12.

      Attachments:
      #106733
      Member
      Wallon

        There is a Mali Azerty keyboard in Debian 12.

        Attachments:
        #106735
        Member
        Wallon

          There is an Azerty Morocco keyboard in Debian 12.

          Attachments:
          #106740
          Member
          Wallon

            There is an Azerty keyboard for the Democratic Republic of Congo in Debian 12.

            Attachments:
            #106742
            Member
            Wallon

              There is an Azerty keyboard for Togo in Debian 12.

              Attachments:
              #106744
              Member
              Wallon

                60% of the Belgian population speaks Dutch.
                Installation Dutch_Belgium nl_BE with the Belgian azerty keyboard.

                #106745
                Member
                Wallon

                  Here is the list of Gnome shortcuts.
                  Gnome shortcuts
                  I tested on my Debian 12 Gnome Wayland installation.
                  Everything works on my Belgian azerty keyboard.
                  As it is a desktop environment, there are far fewer keyboard shortcuts.
                  The shortcuts are very different from window managers like Fluxbox, IceWM and JWM.

                  #106746
                  Member
                  Wallon

                    Here are the keyboard shortcuts for MX Linux 21.3 XFCE.
                    I made a capture of all the shortcuts.
                    Most of them are linked to keys on my keyboard.
                    Everything works with my Belgian azerty keyboard.
                    There are really a lot less shortcuts in this desktop environment.
                    The keyboard shortcuts are simpler than in the FluxBox, IceWM and JW window managers.

                    Attachments:
                    #106751
                    Member
                    Robin

                      There are more keys on an azerty keyboard than on a querty keyboard.

                      At least one of my good old cherry keyboards with physical qwerty layout has 105 keys physically already, the same count as the more recent qwertz keyboard I use for everyday work. Unfortunately I don’t own a physical azerty layout keyboard.

                      I’m sorry, I don’t know German and it will be difficult for me to follow the screens for the installation.

                      No need for installation, please just check it out from a Live USB… It will boot you straight up to the desktop. I have managed this test in Belgian French language also 🙂
                      Btw, I guess, when opening the antiX control center’s system wide keyboard change entry you’ll have to type “de?o” instead of „demo” as password on your physical Belgian/French azerty keyboard as long the German qwertz layout is selected. (Just like I have to type „deöo” instead of „demo” on my physical German qwertz keyboard as long the Belgian/French azerty layout is selected) Just look up the proper key in the layout diagram of the current language to get an idea where a needed key is physically mapped, and press this key, whatever it reads on your physical keyboard. (This is very similar to what you have to do in BIOS on non-US keyboards, on a qwertz keyboard you’d have to press the „z” key when you actually want to key in “y” for “yes”.) As soon you have switched to the french azerty layout in the German version of the antiX control center then, you’ll have back the keyboard layout as printed on your physical keys. Check whether any characters are missing, and whether now the ctrl+alt control sequences do actually work.

                      What we need to know from this test is: Does the azerty keyboard work for you properly with all characters of French alphabet PLUS the control keys when you activate it as described only after booting to the German desktop in antiX and adding the Belgian and French keyboard layout from within antiX control center, on a Live USB? If this actually works for you also, we are one step closer to scent out what actually causes all the control keys being replaced on Belgian/French antiX desktop.

                      Yours
                      Robin

                      P.S.:

                      As it is a desktop environment, there are far fewer keyboard shortcuts.

                      Then this doesn’t count. The core issue is that something blocks all the ctrl+alt key combinations from being properly recognised.

                      There are really a lot less shortcuts in this desktop environment.
                      The keyboard shortcuts are simpler than in the FluxBox, IceWM and JW window managers.

                      As said, this does not help for all the other professional programs making extensive use of ctrl+alt shortcuts for speeding up the workflow. They need to be able to rely on proper ctrl+alt control sequences sent from any keyboard layout as well.

                      Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                      #106755
                      Member
                      Wallon

                        I found the explanation for the strange behaviour of the keyboard shortcuts by changing the language with the same keyboard.
                        It is explained on the wikipedia page in French! Be careful, you have to take the French page because the English page does not give the same explanations.
                        Ask Google to translate the French page into German.
                        It is written “Contrary to what one might think, on GNU/Linux, the behaviour of dead keys is not defined by the keyboard layout, but by the regional settings of the system (which may cause some portability problems)”

                        “There are many combinations of dead keys. On Unix systems, the list can be extracted in detail from the X.Org configuration files in the /usr/share/X11/locale directory”

                        Dead keys

                        I think full desktop environments like Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE , Mate, … only use international shortcuts which are not numerous.

                        Even if you edit the file, there is a problem with some direct keys that don’t exist on a keyboard. BobC used the “Grave” key in a shortcut. This key does not exist on the azerty keyboards in France and Belgium.
                        I have seen that the keyboard used in Switzerland and Canada for French is Querty. There are no accents on these keyboards and they have to customise their installations to have all the letters of the French alphabet. There are many Windows, Mac, Linux forums for these Querty keyboards. For me, it’s an idiocy to have imposed Querty with French which is a protected language in those countries. It’s normal if it goes less well.

                        #106759
                        Member
                        Wallon

                          Thank you for drawing my attention to the “demo” password that is always bugging us. There should be an ISO without a password for translators like you and me. We have more to do than look for keyboard masks for testing…

                          #106760
                          Member
                          Wallon

                            I’m on antiX 22 fr_FR with a real French azerty keyboard. There are 2 keys Windows/Penguin as on the keyboard picture.

                            These keyboard shortcuts do not work;
                            Alt+Ctrl+2″ wingrid-right.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+3″ wingrid-top.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+4″ wingrid-bottom.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+5″ key wingrid-topleft.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+6″ key wingrid-topright.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+7″ key wingrid-bottomleft.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+8″ key wingrid-bottomright.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+9″ key wingrid-maximize.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+0″ key wingrid-close.sh
                            Alt+Ctrl+grave” key wingrid-center.sh

                            
                            $ locale
                            LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LANGUAGE=fr_FR
                            LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_MESSAGES="fr_FR.UTF-8"
                            LC_PAPER=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_NAME=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_ADDRESS=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_TELEPHONE=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8
                            LC_IDENTIFICATION="fr_FR.UTF-8"
                            LC_ALL=
                            
                            #106768
                            Member
                            Robin

                              I did another testing on the Belgian/French antiX desktop:

                              – Added the en_US international keyboard layout
                              us anglais (US) Anglais (US, variant international)
                              – Removed the en_US (no variant) keyboard layout.

                              On this layout one should expect the control+alt key codes to be functional again. But they do fail here also on the en_US kayboard layout.

                              Then I repeated the test with
                              us anglais (US) Anglais (US, variant international, combinatoire Unicode via AltGr)
                              us anglais (US) Anglais (US, variant international)
                              us anglais (US) Anglais (US, variant international, avec touches mortes)

                              None of them brings back the ctrl+alt key functionality.

                              “Contrary to what one might think, on GNU/Linux, the behaviour of dead keys is not defined by the keyboard layout, but by the regional settings of the system (which may cause some portability problems)”

                              This is a really interesting finding, Wallon! But it refers to the dead keys. But obviously the issue is not linked to the dead keys (Since neither the « avec touches mortes » nor the other variants make any difference), and also not to the keyboard layout itself as we know now. There must be still another secret blocking all the ctrl+alt key combinations in Belgian/French antiX desktop, even when an US American keyboard layout is selected from antiX control center later.

                              The most strange thing is: All the ctrl+alt+whatever combinations don’t seem to do anything on the Belgian/French desktop, in no keyboard layout. They even don’t produce any character, e.g. in geany. They simply don’t work, while they give back some codes in xev. It looks to me that these key combinations return one single code to xev, while on a German desktop the same test results in different code output in xev. Not sure what could cause this misbehaviour for the Belgian/French desktop.

                              xev readout on antiX, booted to German desktop for
                              Ctrl+Alt+1
                              Ctrl+Alt+2
                              Ctrl+Alt+3
                              Ctrl+Alt+…

                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  68  0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  1   0   4   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  4294967249 0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   32  0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 39, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  0   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 

                              Same xev readout on antiX booted to Belgian/French desktop:
                              Ctrl+Alt+1
                              Ctrl+Alt+2
                              Ctrl+Alt+3
                              Ctrl+Alt+…

                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 
                              KeymapNotify event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
                                  keys:  2   0   0   0   32  0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   
                                         0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0 

                              So obviously all the keys are not mapped properly at all as soon ctrl+alt+something is pressed on the Belgian/French desktop.

                              I’d call this a bug, not a feature 🙂

                              Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                              #106771
                              Member
                              Wallon

                                I totally agree with you.
                                These keyboard shortcuts are dead and never work.
                                The only solution is an “azerantiX” respin.

                                #106772
                                Moderator
                                Brian Masinick

                                  The problem area, now that we have the necessary information, is likely either in the locales package or in a related localization or internationalization package. Could be a keyboard setting depending on the specific way it’s packaged but it sounds like a locale issue.

                                  Now to dig that up and get it resolved.

                                  --
                                  Brian Masinick

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