Antix 19.2 ctrl+ alt not working in IceWM with FR keymap

Forum Forums General Hardware Antix 19.2 ctrl+ alt not working in IceWM with FR keymap

  • This topic has 52 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated May 15-9:06 pm by Robin.
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  • #106774
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick

      Thank you for drawing my attention to the “demo” password that is always bugging us. There should be an ISO without a password for translators like you and me. We have more to do than look for keyboard masks for testing…

      The file /etc/passwd contains the password fields; to remove the passwd, of course you have to obtain root access, but then it’s a simple matter of removing the contents of the second field and save the file.

      So if someone can do that and remaster an image, that’s about all it takes – at least for a hack…

      PASSWD(5) File Formats and Conversions PASSWD(5)

      NAME
      passwd – the password file

      DESCRIPTION
      /etc/passwd contains one line for each user account, with seven fields delimited by colons (“:”).
      These fields are:

      • login name

      • optional encrypted password

      • numerical user ID

      • numerical group ID

      • user name or comment field

      • user home directory

      • optional user command interpreter

      --
      Brian Masinick

      #106775
      Moderator
      Brian Masinick

        IF you have a shadow password, you may have to modify that too, but once you hack it; maybe that can be easily changed too.
        As root, running the passwd program and modifying it would also work – hopefully

        PASSWD(5) File Formats and Conversions PASSWD(5)

        NAME
        passwd – the password file

        DESCRIPTION
        /etc/passwd contains one line for each user account, with seven fields delimited by colons (“:”).
        These fields are:

        • login name

        • optional encrypted password

        • numerical user ID

        • numerical group ID

        • user name or comment field

        • user home directory

        • optional user command interpreter

        --
        Brian Masinick

        #106784
        Member
        Wallon

          Thank you Brian for your explanations.

          Here is the equation to find the origin of the problem.
          IceWM failure = (French) + (shortcut Ctrl+Alt+digit with Azerty keyboard)
          1) Is this from French?
          2) Is the shortcut Ctrl+Alt+digit with azerty keyboard?

          1) The French test but without the Azerty keyboard to remove one element from the equation.
          For this, I tested Canadian French and Swiss French.
          1.1) Swiss French with Swiss-France Quertz keyboard = All works = test validated
          1.2) Canadian French with standard multilingual Qwerty keyboard (105 keys) = All works = test validated.

          2) The test of the shortcut Ctrl+Alt+digit with azerty keyboard.
          2.1) I customize JWM’s wingrid shortcuts to force it to use Ctrl+Alt+digit with the Azerty keyboard
          <!–Wingrid Ctrl+Alt+digit–>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”1″>exec:wingrid-left.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”2″>exec:wingrid-right.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”3″>exec:wingrid-top.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”4″>exec:wingrid-bottom.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”5″>exec:wingrid-topleft.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”6″>exec:wingrid-topright.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”7″>exec:wingrid-bottomleft.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”8″>exec:wingrid-bottomright.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”9″>exec:wingrid-maximize.sh</Key>
          <Key mask=”CA” key=”0″>exec:wingrid-close.sh</Key>

          All working = test validated

          2.2) I customize the Fluxbox wingrid shortcuts to force it to use Ctrl+Alt+digit with the Azerty keyboard
          !wingrid
          Control Mod1 1 :ExecCommand wingrid-left.sh
          Control Mod1 2 :ExecCommand wingrid-right.sh
          Control Mod1 3 :ExecCommand wingrid-top.sh
          Control Mod1 4 :ExecCommand wingrid-bottom.sh
          Control Mod1 5 :ExecCommand wingrid-topleft.sh
          Control Mod1 6 :ExecCommand wingrid-topright.sh
          Control Mod1 7 :ExecCommand wingrid-bottomleft.sh
          Control Mod1 8 :ExecCommand wingrid-bottomright.sh
          Control Mod1 9 :ExecCommand wingrid-maximize.sh
          Control Mod1 0 :ExecCommand wingrid-close.sh

          All working = test validated.

          Conclusion
          —————
          The problem does not come from the French language nor from the shortcut (Ctrl+Alt+digit) of the azerty keyboard.
          The problem comes from IceWM!

          #106785
          Member
          Wallon

            Analysis of the IceWM window manager

            Different tests by modifying the wingrid shortcuts Ctrl+Alt+digit with the azerty keyboard.

            ### BobC 06/15/19 – all setting same as std antiX 19b1 except the following:
            # Wingrid on Ctrl+ 1 thru 0 on number row

            # key “Alt+Ctrl+1” wingrid-left.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+2” wingrid-right.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+3” wingrid-top.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+4” wingrid-bottom.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+5” wingrid-topleft.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+6” wingrid-topright.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+7” wingrid-bottomleft.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+8” wingrid-bottomright.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+9” wingrid-maximize.sh
            # key “Alt+Ctrl+0” wingrid-close.sh
            Nothing works = Total failure.

            # key “Ctrl+Alt+1” wingrid-left.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+2” wingrid-right.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+3” wingrid-top.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+4” wingrid-bottom.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+5” wingrid-topleft.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+6” wingrid-topright.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+7” wingrid-bottomleft.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+8” wingrid-bottomright.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+9” wingrid-maximize.sh
            # key “Ctrl+Alt+0” wingrid-close.sh
            Nothing works = Total failure.

            # key “Ctrl+1” wingrid-left.sh
            # key “Ctrl+2” wingrid-right.sh
            # key “Ctrl+3” wingrid-top.sh
            # key “Ctrl+4” wingrid-bottom.sh
            # key “Ctrl+5” wingrid-topleft.sh
            # key “Ctrl+6” wingrid-topright.sh
            # key “Ctrl+7” wingrid-bottomleft.sh
            # key “Ctrl+8” wingrid-bottomright.sh
            # key “Ctrl+9” wingrid-maximize.sh
            # key “Ctrl+0” wingrid-close.sh
            Nothing works = Total failure.

            key “Ctrl+Shift+1” wingrid-left.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+2” wingrid-right.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+3” wingrid-top.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+4” wingrid-bottom.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+5” wingrid-topleft.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+6” wingrid-topright.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+7” wingrid-bottomleft.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+8” wingrid-bottomright.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+9” wingrid-maximize.sh
            key “Ctrl+Shift+0” wingrid-close.sh
            Nothing works = Total failure.

            Conclusion
            ———-
            IceWM forgot to integrate azerty keyboards in its code.

            #106796
            Member
            Robin

              IceWM forgot to integrate azerty keyboards in its code.

              Simply no (according to my findings I have already described some postings above). Did you do the testing I had proposed? Here the step-by-step path to follow to check it out:

              – Start the antiX full Live USB to German. (boot to e.g. zzz-Icewm)
              – Use all settings as found in the default antiX ISO Don’t customise any settings.
              – Go straight to antiX Control Center („Kontrollzentrum”) and add the Belgian French azerty layout. (Use the entry „Systemweite Tastaturbelegung festlegen” in the Tab „System”)
              – Click „apply”.
              – Open the leafpad Text editor from the antiX menu („Anwendungen → Zubehör”). Key in at least one key (to make the language change mechanism in the system tray work).
              – Klick with left mouse button on the Flag in the antiX System tray until it shows the Belgian Flag.
              – Check in leafpad by typing some text whether the azerty layout works properly for you now. (for me it looks as if it works, but you are the one who can definitely tell)
              – Check the ctrl+alt+1234567890 combinations to put the active window somewhere in the grid. (for me they do all work here, even on Belgian azerty keyboard layout)

              As said, if this works for you also (please check this!), you can conclude that IceWM generally does work fine on azerty. There must be something wrong deeper in system which prevents at least some of the ctrl+alt keys from working when the system is booted directly to Belgian/French azerty from antiX boot screen instead of booting to e.g. German first and switch to Belgian/French azerty later after desktop was completely loaded.

              I found meanwhile that some of the ctrl+alt combinations actually work even when booting directly to Belgian/French from antiX boot screen:

              ctrl+alt+h
              ctrl+alt+d

              do their job perfectly fine always.

              So what we need to find out is: What is the true showstopper here? It doesn’t make much sense to modify all the shortcut tables in all programs as a really dirty workaround for this nasty bug. The block for the ctrl+alt key combinations in Belgian/French antiX needs to be released, wherever it hooks, that will solve the issue for all programs affected, including the wingrid scripts, without changing the shortcut table for each language individually.

              Best regards
              Robin

              Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

              #106847
              Member
              Wallon

                Dear Robin,

                I’m going to disappoint you but I’ve made the decision to stop all testing with antiX.
                There are fundamental things that need to work properly with window managers.
                I have already mentioned this on the forum and no developer has taken any interest in my remarks.

                1) A window manager must place the window in the right place on screen 1 or screen 2 or screen 3.
                All scripts used with wingrid should be reviewed even for Fluxbox or JWM.
                – the wingrid-left function : on my installation it becomes maximize on screen 1
                – the wingrid-right function : on my installation it becomes maximize on screen 2
                etcaetera…
                So even if the keyboard shortcut gives something, the windows are not placed in the right place.

                2) I haven’t naturally tested all the shortcuts in the 3 window managers but I can tell you that even JWM which is the easiest for me has problems with the shortcuts.
                I have two examples with JWM at hand
                2.1) <Key mask=”CA” key=”Return”>maximize</Key> in my case, I get ejected from antiX.
                2.2) <Key mask=”C4″ key=”Return”>minimize</Key> in my case, this shortcut is inactive.

                I use antiX with icons in my taskbar because I don’t know how to do otherwise.
                I have given in the “Tips and Tricks” section the only shortcuts that really work well with azerty keyboards for the 3 window managers.
                It’s the Windows key + arrow pad. It works well even with a multi-screen installation.

                As I’m not a developer and I don’t understand how window managers work with an azerty keyboard, I give up testing.

                Cordialement,
                Wallon

                #106850
                Moderator
                Brian Masinick

                  @Wallon: I’m sorry that you are unable to continue testing. I still appreciate everything you’ve done to participate in our efforts and I wish you well.

                  For what it’s worth, it is possible to install Xfce on antiX, though I’m not certain that it would preserve every aspect of our “nonsystemD” approach.
                  Since our neighbor, MX Linux, does offer Xfce out of the box, plus Fluxbox and KDE Plasma as other alternatives, perhaps either this or Debian 12 would end up being more of a “plug in” approach, without having to make other changes in your regular usage habits.

                  Still, I’m sorry this didn’t work out for you; your contributions have been valuable to our forum. Best wishes on your journey.

                  --
                  Brian Masinick

                  #106889
                  Member
                  Robin

                    Dear Wallon,

                    As I’m not a developer and I don’t understand how window managers work with an azerty keyboard, I give up testing.

                    please consider this a misconception. Me also don’t understand anything about window managers’ internal programming structures. The idea of systematic testing is simply to provide the developers with all data needed they can locate the true core of the issue in the end. The more we can narrow down the true source of a bug the more probably it can be fixed soon by the developers. So all the testing you did is really valuable. For this they don’t need to comment each of our steps, please keep in mind they have multiple other construction areas in antiX the same time. This is what linux makes great: Everybody provides what he is able to. So you and me can merely provide the testing data in this case. And as you can learn from the postings in this thread above: You have already changed the direction of investigation away from the azerty layout design as such, to something different we don’t know by now exactly what it could be.

                    Software testing is a really hard and time consuming task. So you need to be very patient when doing it. I can understand your disappointment not to see any immediate result, but tenaciously following the scented out trail is the single way to succeed in the end.

                    I’m really sorry to read you can’t exercise this kind of patience. But be assured, all the testings you’ve done by now were highly valuable. Many thanks!

                    Yours
                    Robin

                    Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

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