antiX-21-base versions

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-21-base versions

  • This topic has 48 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated Sep 8-12:14 pm by ModdIt.
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  • #66396
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista

    Once again, antiX-21-base, using exact same apps as antiX-19.4, no longer fits on a cd (antiX-19.4-base is under 700MB).
    It is about 780MB.
    So it’s time to decide its fate.

    1. Make it the same as 19.4-base even if it no longer fits on a cd.
    2. Since stripping it to what is included on 19.4 in order for it to fit on a cd no longer works, add back apps removed between 19.3-base and 19.4-base.
    This will probably make the iso about 900MB (IIRC).
    3. Make it libre – no contribs/non-free apps on the iso. This mostly removes non-free firmware. (User can always add them if they wish). However, this means that many wireless devices will not work out of the box. It may also mean some amd boxes needing amd-firmware might fail to boot.
    I can get the iso to well below 700MB if this option is chosen.
    4. Install some firmware that we know is needed for many/most boxes and sacrifice others. eg include firmware-iwlwifi, but not broadcom-sta-dkms.
    With some clever cherry-picking, we might be able to keep the iso below 700MB.

    Other ideas? Thoughts?

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #66397
    Moderator
    christophe
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    I think option 4.

    Whatever must be sacrificed to get the antiX X-environment up, with wifi, for the oldest of computers.

    Perhaps some helpful tips on what to do to add missing things.

    Perhaps offer a single archive & script to install the ‘missing’ packages, as a fast-track to build up to the classic antiX-base state, if the user desires.

    confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2018

    #66398
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    I’m curious to know how many people boot from CD, DVD, and USB. The more people that work from either DVD or USB, the less important it is to have small image sizes. I do suspect that some regions, such as Brazil and other countries where owning equipment less than ten years old is difficult or impossible, still make it important to consider frugal space considerations.

    Brian Masinick

    #66399
    Member
    r_chase
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    I booted antiX from a USB and installed it on to my old ThinkPad X140e. So, yeah, I boot from a USB usually.

    Though, if you guys want to boot from a CD, then option 4 might work because some older computers don’t use Broadcom at the very least. However, I installed antiX-Full 19.4 on my computer, so I wouldn’t really know tbh.

    #66400
    Member
    Xecure
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    If the firmware packages are the biggest group, how big would antix21-core be?

    Once again, antiX-21-base, using exact same apps as antiX-19.4, no longer fits on a cd (antiX-19.4-base is under 700MB).
    It is about 780MB.

    Is this the same packages listed in the current Build-iso repo for a21 (COMMON + base + base-AND-full)? If so, I think I could provide statistics for:
    * Group A: Percentage in ISO that is only firmware packages (free and non-free).
    * Group B: Percentage of xserver-xorg and xorg-video-modules
    * Group C: Percentage that is web-browsers (seamonkey+dillo+links2) and internet related clients (torrent, email, shares).
    * Group D: Percentage that is WMs (and defaults and themes) + FMs (and defaults) + desktop-session (and complements, like menu-manager, desktop-menu-antix, etc.) + decorations (icon themes, system fonts, gtk themes).
    * Group E: Other graphical related apps
    The percentage left would be core and cli programs + indispensable + dependencies.

    I Think this could give us an idea of what each group weighs in the total and maybe find a place where to reduce (please confirm this list is the same and I will make the statistics).

    Firmware is indispensable (as core also includes the firmware, base would make no sense without the same firmware packages).
    Would it make a difference if it was only 1 Window Manager and 1 File Manager (and only leafpad and no geany) without any web browser (maybe only dillo and links)?
    The same script that is being developed for installing localized packages could be used for selecting an “upgrade” path to antix21-full with a bit more control on what packages (WM, editor, web browser, etc.) to add/remove.

    This way, antix-base is an antix-core + graphical interface (only one WM and FM) + minimal desktop-session control (the biggest problem for people trying to start from core) without the GUI installer (or any QT5 dependent app, like repo-manager, antix-viewer or smtube to reduce dependencies) and only cli-installer (now that it supports EFI install). The yad script could be launched from the desktop to install stuff to “upgrade to full” on live before installing or after installing on next reboot.

    Note: I am not saying this as “some great idea for the dev team to follow”. If the effort is appreciated, I can also spend some free time to make this script (and path) possible and give the list of packages to remove from base-and-full (so that they can be moved to the list for the “full” Template in build-iso).

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Xecure. Reason: Edit to add some qt5 examples

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #66403
    Member
    Xecure
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    Is this base ISO multi-kernel or only 1 kernel (4.9)?

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #66405
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    1 kernel.

    There is a script that gives some idea of size of apps (installed) called sort_by_size.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #66406
    Moderator
    christophe
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    How about base = core + script to download a mega-package, which installs the rest. This package being showcased and available on cli-aptiX.

    confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2018

    #66407
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    As long as we have a full version, it sounds like there are a few choices to move from Core to Base.

    How about offering a Core distribution with firmware and networking support.
    Then include a script for those who want the Base; that script updates from Core to Base.

    With the Full and Core starting points plus a tool to achieve the Base, it could save having to construct 3 styles for multiple 32 and 64 bit configurations.

    Thoughts? Too little? Too much?

    Brian Masinick

    #66408
    Member
    linuxdaddy
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    Would stripping X video drivers to intel, ati, noveau, and vesa. leaving out the rest save a
    lot of space too?

    Normal == 🙂
    depends on the surrounding crowd ?!

    #66411
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    tjhSM
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    * Group C: Percentage that is web-browsers (seamonkey+dillo+links2) and internet related clients (torrent, email, shares).
    Firmware is indispensable (as core also includes the firmware, base would make no sense without the same firmware packages).

    I like the above suggested solution, if possible: keep all firmware (+WMs&FMs) to get base installed successfully and looking good on as many systems as possible, while removing as much internet-centric software as needed to get down to 700MB. If a user does not have good internet access then they won’t (generally) miss internet clients, but if they do have decent connectivity then they can get them easily.

    I’ve noticed recently (I’ve been shopping around) that not a lot of distros have a base install <700MB anymore, and those that do generally have a skimpy set of installed software. So I think people would understand if the installed packages were a bit thin as long as the system installs easily, connects, looks great and is flexible. Maybe put a package-installer shortcut on the desktop to emphasize that additional software is just a few clicks away.

    #66412
    Forum Admin
    rokytnji
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    A PLOP floppy disc and cd usually gets me t0 boot on usb 1.1 so I have no dog in this hunt.

    Link for making a Floppy
    Link for making a cd.

    Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
    Not all who Wander are Lost.
    I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

    Linux Registered User # 475019
    How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

    #66435
    Member
    Xecure
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    Starting with antix21-b2-runit (live) and removing packages based on the TEMPLATE lists for full (and adding the ones for base), after remaster and reboot, I get these statistics (using sort_by_size) [NOTE: wordpress says I am posting something naughty, so I have attached the file instead]

    FIRMWARE:     13.38%
    xorg:          1.13%
    DESKTOP:       1.51%
    ICONS-THEMES:  1.89%
    INTERNET:      7.15%
    MULTIMEDIA:    1.41%
    
    gcc-10 and dkms:  4.24%
    qt5 apps:         1.90%

    Apart from firmware, the biggest group is internet (see attachments)
    And set the auto-connect script to launch ceni if connman is not installed.

    After that, if we remove gcc-10 and the dkms packages (losing broadcom and exfat compatibility), we could also reduce some more MBs in the ISO (see attachments).

    NOTE: I am probably missing many packages (and dependencies) related to each category, but this is as good a statistic I can come up with right now.

    EDIT: Removing geany saves 0.51%

    8692	geany-common
    3878	geany
    12570  (0.51%)
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Xecure. Reason: Trying to place code
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Xecure. Reason: removing geany
    Attachments:

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #66442
    Forum Admin
    Dave
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    I would say option #3.
    However as that makes it difficulty to setup networking and such maybe we could have a nonfree-firmware iso that could be downloaded and added to the sources.list? I think this is just a pool of deb files with a RELEASES file for indexing.

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #66444
    Moderator
    BobC
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    I replaced the CD-ROM with a DVD on my Pentium II. My favorite Pentium III, is gone, left for the crows.

    I would thing the ones in trouble are laptops where substituting a DVD drive is not an easy option.

    Is this necessary for 64 bit? I would think all 64 bit have DVD or USB.

    I think brian and christophe’s suggestion is the best one. Without Wifi working, there will be too many troubles and many older machine have the oddball wifi setups.

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