antiX-21-base versions

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-21-base versions

  • This topic has 48 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated Sep 8-12:14 pm by ModdIt.
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  • #66448
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    PPC
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    I don’t use the base version- but I would suggestion option 3, with a call back, on the download page, to how to create a plop boot cd (roky provided the correct links in a previous post)
    Plop served me well on a now defunct desktop- it was the way I installed antiX 16 full on that device.

    P.

    #66449
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    seaken64
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    I like anti’s #3. But I also like Roky’s use of Plop for booting from USB. But both choices are a little technical and some folks just struggle with that stuff.

    Brian and Christophe seem to have a good idea and it may be less technical, especially if there can be an icon on the first screen that says “Upgrade your Base install with the non-free Firmware and Internet applications”. That will lead to instructions about how to get the missing bits installed. I used to do this years ago with Slackware. I had to use a floppy drive to move the firmware drivers onto the old machine and then “install” from the command line. After that the wifi was working and I could then download the updates from the repos. Still a little technical but if one can follow along with a written set of instructions it works.

    How many old computers do not have a USB? All my oldest computers have a USB. On some I use a Floppy PLOP disk. Others support CD Plop disk.

    I also like the idea of upgrading to a DVD drive. I also do that on many old desktops.

    Seaken64

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by seaken64.
    #66450
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    Brian Masinick
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    We have a number of good ideas here. I’d like to see something that is straightforward and is not too much to understand for newcomers. As a few people agree that Christophe and Brian have a good idea, and a few people have suggested a script with an icon, and another suggestion mentioned the package installer, something that incorporates these ideas, if it is not too complicated, sounds optimal.

    I still say that we’re offering our ideas and suggestions; whatever the development team chooses is acceptable to me. I’m thankful for the opportunity to discuss our ideas.

    Brian Masinick

    #66461
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    SamK
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    If we want to continue with CD size ISO how about using the old idea of 2 CDS?

    ISO-1 would be an installation set only. It can contain only xvesa as everything can boot with it. No bells or whistles, no heavyweight web browsers, no drivers, one WM etc. Only the minimum software to obtain a GUI to conduct an installation.

    ISO-2 would contain everything else deemed wanted in the release and be installable from the environment created and booted via ISO-1.

    Once the two stages have been done the resulting system will work and update/ugrade as any other antiX.

    #66464
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    seaken64
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    If we want to continue with CD size ISO how about using the old idea of 2 CDS?

    ISO-1 would be an installation set only. It can contain only xvesa as everything can boot with it. No bells or whistles, no heavyweight web browsers, no drivers, one WM etc. Only the minimum software to obtain a GUI to conduct an installation.

    ISO-2 would contain everything else deemed wanted in the release and be installable from the environment created and booted via ISO-1.

    Once the two stages have been done the resulting system will work and update/ugrade as any other antiX.

    Yes, I like this. One vote for SamK’s idea.

    Seaken64

    #66467
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    anticapitalista
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    Trouble is SamK, I don’t know how to do that. Our iso’s are not built like standard Debian cds

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #66469
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    Brian Masinick
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    Perhaps a valid question is whether we need three forms: Core, Base, and Full?

    If yes, that’s fine. I’m just concerned about putting too much time and complexity for anti and anyone else who may be helping out.

    Brian Masinick

    #66470
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    SamK
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    Trouble is SamK, I don’t know how to do that. Our iso’s are not built like standard Debian cds

    I’ll get in touch with a few ideas.

    #66471
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    Xecure
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    Perhaps a valid question is whether we need three forms: Core, Base, and Full?

    There are FOUR editions:
    – Net (no xorg, no wireless firmware, no ceni, etc.)
    – Core (no xorg, yes wireless firmware)
    – Base (yes xorg, no Libreoffice, no Firefox, etc.).
    – Full (complete, platinum rated)

    Trouble is SamK, I don’t know how to do that. Our iso’s are not built like standard Debian cds

    Could the second CD be used as a local repo? If the CD contains all extra packages + a Packages.gz file containing the list of available packages (in the CD), then an installed script (or the same script inside the CD) includes an adaptation of the my-offline-repo to add this CD to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/local.list (as it does now), then they can install the missing packages (and a bit more) without the need for network connection.

    Is this extra effort worth it? Anyway, I think we are going too far away from the original idea. Do people still want a antiX-base or would they prefer to start from antiX core? I wouldn’t mind creating a video on how to go from antiX core to full, (with and without an “upgrade script”) as soon as a core version is available.

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #66472
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    marcelocripe
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    Out of context, my public thanks:

    After anticapitalista gifted us through the update that occurred this first week of September 2021, several shortcut icons were fixed/updated the texts in pt-BR (thanks LucK Dia, felipecardope and everyone from the Telegram and WhatsApp groups) and in pt (thanks Zeh, for your long tireless work), besides the corrections of about 90% of the menu (first level), personal, toolbar or tray for the pt-BR language.

    This Saturday and part of this Sunday was a lot of action, replacing the new menus of all computers that are close to me, besides helping several people through the Telegram and WhatsApp groups to get the menus updated. I even managed to prepare a tutorial to help users who have minimal computer knowledge https://archive.org/details/menus-para-o-antix. AntiX is getting more and more “beautiful” in my language, it is already a little more “Brazilian”.

    THANK YOU, anticapitalista.

    Now yes on this topic.

    I’m curious to know how many people boot from CD, DVD, and USB. The more people that work from either DVD or USB, the less important it is to have small image sizes. I do suspect that some regions, such as Brazil and other countries where owning equipment less than ten years old is difficult or impossible, still make it important to consider frugal space considerations.

    Mr. Brian, I will express my personal opinion, so I am not writing on behalf of millions of people. I do use DVD media, both for using it to install the antiX operating system and for data storage. I no longer consider using CD media even for installing an operating system due to the increasing size of programs and operating systems. I do use the USB stick for the installation of one or more operating systems thanks to the facilities offered by Ventoy.

    The idea of having antiX on one or two CDs seems to be a very good one, but my question is: for which audience are these two ISOs intended?

    The net and core versions are still very far from being realities for me, I have a lot to learn to make them minimally functional.
    The base version for me is already a big challenge, to make it close to the full version is already something for few.
    The full version is the best for me and for most newcomers to antiX or the GNU Linux world.

    I still don’t have the skills to install drivers in antiX, compared to Windows, after all, it has been years studying and learning the other operating system, antiX is about 1 year and 3 months studying and learning with the teachers and masters here in this forum (thank you all for sharing your knowledge).

    I think I would only be able to use this version on 1 or 2 CDs if there was a program that could identify all the devices on the computer and install them automatically, and if it was even possible, download all the drivers and allow copying them for future use. This program would be useful even in the other net, core, base and full ISOs (something like my-offline-repo-0118.zip). In the process of installing this ISO with a size of 700 MB, I imagine it would require the user to choose window manager + file manager they want to install, it doesn’t make sense to offer all the options available in antiX full.

    I am all for including as many drivers as possible in antiX, this increases the compatibility of antiX on most devices. If increasing the amount of drivers in the full ISO would increase to 1.5GB or 2GB, it doesn’t matter, as it is not easy to do driver installation in antiX.

    I will follow the development of this topic, this subject interests me, even though I know I am not ready to use this CD version.

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    – – – – –

    Fora do contexto, os meus agradecimentos públicos:

    Após o anticapitalista nos presentear através da atualização que ocorreu nesta primeira semana de setembro de 2021, vários ícones de atalho foram corrigidos/atualizados os textos em pt-BR (obrigado LucK Dia, felipecardope e a todos dos grupos de Telegram e WhatsApp) e em pt (obrigado Zeh, por seu longo trabalho incansável), além das correções de cerca de 90% do menu (primeiro nível), personal, toolbar ou tray para o idioma pt-BR.

    Este sábado e parte deste domingo foi de muita ação substituindo os novos menus de todos os computadores que estão próximos de mim, além de ajudar várias pessoas através dos grupos de Telegram e WhatsApp a conseguirem fazer a atualização dos menus. Eu ainda consegui preparar um tutorial para ajudar os usuários que possuem conhecimentos mínimos em informática https://archive.org/details/menus-para-o-antix. Cada vez mais o antiX está ficando mais “bonito” em meu idioma, já está um pouco mais “Brasileiro”.

    MUITO OBRIGADO, anticapitalista.

    Agora sim sobre este tópico.

    I’m curious to know how many people boot from CD, DVD, and USB. The more people that work from either DVD or USB, the less important it is to have small image sizes. I do suspect that some regions, such as Brazil and other countries where owning equipment less than ten years old is difficult or impossible, still make it important to consider frugal space considerations.

    Senhor Brian, eu irei expressar a minha opinião pessoal, por tanto não estou escrevendo em nome de milhões de pessoas. A mídia de DVD eu a utilizo sim, tanto para usar para a instalação do sistema operacional antiX quando para armazenamento de dados. Eu não considero mais a utilização de mídia de CD, sequer para a instalação de um sistema operacional devido o tamanho crescente dos programas e dos sistemas operacionais. Eu utilizo sim o dispositivo USB para a instalação de um ou mais sistemas operacionais graças as facilidades oferecidas pelo Ventoy.

    A ideia de ter o antiX em um ou dois CDs parece ser muito boa, mas a minha pergunta é: para qual público esta duas ISOs serão destinadas?

    As versões net e core ainda estão muito longe de serem realidades para mim, eu tenho muito o que aprender para torná-las minimamente funcionais.
    A versão base para mim, já é um grande desafio, torná-la próxima a versão full já é algo para poucos.
    A versão full é a melhor para mim e para a maioria dos iniciantes no antiX ou no mundo GNU Linux.

    Eu ainda não possuo habilidades para a instalação de controladores no antiX, se comparado a que possuo no Windows, afinal, foram anos estudando e aprendendo o outro sistema operacional, o antiX são cerca de 1 ano e 3 meses estudando e aprendendo com os professores e mestres daqui deste fórum (muito obrigado a todos por compartilharem os seus conhecimentos).

    Eu acho que só conseguira utilizar esta versão em 1 ou 2 CDs se existisse um programa que identificasse todos os dispositivos do computador e fizesse a instalação automaticamente, se fosse possível ainda, baixasse todos os controladores e permitisse copiá-los para uso futuro. Este programa seria útil inclusive nas outras ISOs net, core, base e full (algo semelhante ao my-offline-repo-0118.zip). No processo de instalação desta ISO com tamanho de 700 MB, eu imagino que seria necessário o usuário escolher qual gerenciador de janelas + gerenciador de arquivos quer instalar, não faz sentido oferecer todas as opções disponíveis no antiX full.

    Eu sou totalmente a favor da inclusão da maior quantidade possível de controladores no antiX, isso aumenta a compatibilidade do antiX na maioria dos dispositivos. Se aumentar a quantidade de controladores na ISO full aumentaria para 1,5 GB ou 2 GB, isso não importa, pois não é fácil fazer a instalação de controladores no antiX.

    Eu vou acompanhar o desenvolvimento deste tópico, este assunto me interessa, mesmo eu sabendo que não estou preparado para utilizar esta versão em CD.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em Português do Brasil)

    #66474
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    @marcelocripe: Thank you for your opinion and insight. While you are not the only one that might be using the images, what you are saying could make a difference. How many people are taking advantage of the Base installation?
    I’ve been one that has often used it, but I am not resource constrained in any way. Moreover, I could use either Core or Full instead of Base, if there is anything I want or need from either of them.

    Of those who DO regularly use Base, is anyone restricted in any way to using only CD? If not, I’m not sure we even need to produce CD-sized images any more, except in Core form, and that’s why I keep asking various questions. Those who DO use Base and WILL benefit from a CD-sized image should identify themselves; otherwise the existence of a Net or Core image are sufficient for the minimal-sized image, and the Full image is still arguably modest enough in size for the majority of users.

    I’m not the decision maker; I’m just stating what seems to be obvious…

    Brian Masinick

    #66477
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    SamK
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    Could the second CD be used as a local repo? If the CD contains all extra packages + a Packages.gz file containing the list of available packages (in the CD), then an installed script (or the same script inside the CD) includes an adaptation of the my-offline-repo to add this CD to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/local.list (as it does now), then they can install the missing packages (and a bit more) without the need for network connection.

    Thanks Xecure, that’s one of the possibilities I have in mind.

    #66478
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    skidoo
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    a multi-CD scenario would be contrary to (would ruleout) use of liveboot+persistence?

    consider: How many/few potential “Base Edition” users are (dis)affected by “too large to fit on a CD”?
    We can expect the antiX19 Base Edition ISO (+debian10 repos) will continue to be available another 2yrs.
    The affected segment of potential new users could be directed to use antiX19Base as a starting point then perform dist-upgrade.

    Even if Base Edition ISO is further shaved to fit on CD, folks hoping to “further trim, tweak, personalize” then employ isosnapshot >> LiveUSBMaker… will likely wind up with a “slimmed” ISO having a “too large for CD” filesize (by default, isosnapshot applies less aggressive compression than build-iso)

    Perhaps the intended purpose of “Base Edition” must now be re-imagined, redefined.
    It could be presented as a barebones onboarding alternative, providing a graphical O/S installer (and inbuilt liveboot + persist/frugal capability) but not much else, in terms of pre-installed programs. Omitting seamonkey package frees 42MB…

    The barebones approach probably begs placement of a desktop icon leading to a [yad checkboxes] program installer utility, listing the programs which had been omitted due to the “CD-size” constraint.

    #66479
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    skidoo
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    How many people are taking advantage of the Base installation?

    sourceforge is not the only download source for the ISO, but it’s the only source I have found which displays download statistics.
    I see a ratio of 10:1 ~~ Full Ediition of antiX19 has been downloaded ten times as often as the Base Edition, but a significant number of downloads have been Base Edition (both 64bit and 32bit)
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix-linux/files/Final/antiX-19/
    (a consistent trend, vis the graphical charts presented on that page)

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by skidoo.
    #66480
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    @skidoo: Good points.
    @Xecure: With a 10:1 Full:Base download ratio (the people in this discussion probably account for most of the “:1”, is it worth continuing to offer Base?

    What needs does it service that we can’t accomplish via other means?

    Brian Masinick

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