antiX-21-base versions

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-21-base versions

  • This topic has 48 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated Sep 8-12:14 pm by ModdIt.
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  • #66482
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    skidoo
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    is it worth continuing to offer Base?

    revised my earlier post to clarify:
    Notwithstanding the “ratio”, yes, still seems “worth it” ~~ based on the significant number of Base Edition cumulative downloads.

    What needs does it service that we can’t accomplish via other means?

    It would serve as a means of onboarding folks who would be intimidated by the prospect of dealing with a non-graphical installer.

    #66484
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    is it worth continuing to offer Base?

    revised my earlier post to clarify:
    Notwithstanding the “ratio”, yes, still seems “worth it” ~~ based on the significant number of Base Edition cumulative downloads.

    OK, if it’s still used often, that’s fine. You also make good points regarding mechanisms to create a sized constrained implementation.

    Brian Masinick

    #66485
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    christophe
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    Xecure wrote:

    Is this extra effort worth it? Anyway, I think we are going too far away from the original idea. Do people still want a antiX-base or would they prefer to start from antiX core? I wouldn’t mind creating a video on how to go from antiX core to full, (with and without an “upgrade script”) as soon as a core version is available.

    Xecure, Please do a text tutorial as well. Plus I think this will work nicely for a person who “needs” to install antiX-21 from a 700 MB CD. I’ve been amazed at what I can do when I “have to” learn something…

    Regarding the base iso availability going forward – I think it’s biggest “need” would be to get a taste whether antiX will work (well) on a person’s oldest & most limited hardware. skidoo’s thought on using antiX-19 for the short term for that, might just be the best, to gauge the degree of need. I’ve downloaded base & liked it, because I don’t use libreoffice. But I will remove it myself from full, going forward. So, if none of the other ideas seem good, then consider not making one for now, and see if there is still a need. (Just an additional thought… )

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by christophe. Reason: clarified point
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by christophe.

    confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2018

    #66490
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    Thanks for all the feedback.

    Trouble is we don’t know why people prefer the base to full (or core/net).

    * It might be because it fits on a cd and comes with a graphical installer plus some common/useful apps (ie not barebones).
    * It might also be because it offers more flexibility than full in what else to add after installation eg libreoffice v other or none. ie fitting on a cd is not the issue.
    * It might be because running it frugal/live is faster/less RAM intensive than full – which suits user needs better. ie iso size may be an issue
    * It might be that user can only (easily) install it that way (via cd) on an old box.
    * It is perceived or can be easily made to be less ‘bloated’.

    So is there anyone out there who installs antiX via cd on their particular box?
    If there isn’t, then there is no real need to keep the iso below 700MB.
    Instead we try to keep it as small as possible.

    BTW – It is possible for a user to use core version, install xorg, antix-installer and a windows manager eg jwm
    https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/cli-installer-not-letting-me-install-to-emmc/#post-34046

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #66492
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    linuxdaddy
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    I use cd-r for core and dvd-r/usb for full. don’t use base much at all except
    to test others questions.

    Normal == 🙂
    depends on the surrounding crowd ?!

    #66496
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    linuxdaddy
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    How about do 1 core cd version and 1 full version in 32 and 64-bit to lessen overhead?
    the full featuring both kernels core with the 4.9 only.
    the idea of 2 iso is a good if it’s viable for base. one install and one extra

    like if the cd is
    disk 1: core install
    disk 2: base upgrade

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by linuxdaddy. Reason: added to it

    Normal == 🙂
    depends on the surrounding crowd ?!

    #66500
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    olsztyn
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    * It might be because running it frugal/live is faster/less RAM intensive than full

    This is about my most important preference of Base option.
    Reasons for base:
    – #1 – As stated above. On 19.4, for some reason when I start from Base and build my version of ‘personalized Full’ I get significantly better memory footprint of end-result antiX than starting from Full and removing various stuff. No idea why this happens, as I previously thought I should arrive at the same footprint with the same composition. Apparently something is left over redundant from trimming Full, that eats that memory. And to be clear I mean user memory of running system, not size. I am aware that ps_mem.py should show the same composition of running components, so will try to identify what happens…
    – #2 – It provides more flexibility of software composition and saves time of removing various unneeded bloated packages, such as LibreOffice, etc…

    Whether Base fits on CD is not material. Even my Thinkpad T23, dated about year 2000 had DVD reader by default. USB though was 1.1 slow. So Plop was one option or install Frugal on HD. But in any case it was not CD size limitation.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by olsztyn.
    #66501
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    marcelocripe
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    How many people are taking advantage of the Base installation?

    That is so hard to say. The number of people who downloaded the Source Forge ISO represent absolutely nothing. I, for example, download only once and with one ISO install antiX on several computers.

    I’ve been one that has often used it, but I am not resource constrained in any way. Moreover, I could use either Core or Full instead of Base, if there is anything I want or need from either of them.

    The Base ISO I learned to use was Xecure’s gift “antiX-19-legacy-bet2_386-base.iso”, certainly the Base version is much more user friendly for the common user than the Core or Net versions that require advanced knowledge to build a fully customized antiX system. I hope one day I can have enough knowledge to use either option and learn to take advantage of them.

    Of those who DO regularly use Base, is anyone restricted in any way to using only CD?

    It would be really important for people who need antiX on CD to speak up, especially people who use the computers that can’t boot from the USB device.

    If there isn’t, then there is no real need to keep the iso below 700MB.

    I wonder how hard it is to build an operating system with as many features as antiX has on a CD, the programs increasingly have more MB.
    I imagine you would have to use Tiny Core Plus as a reference. What I remember testing Tiny Core Plus 11.0 comes with a GUI, terminal, text editor, Apps (something equivalent to a mix between Synaptic and Package Installer), settings manager (time, keyboard, etc.), I don’t know how, but most LAN or Wi-Fi network cards worked and to my dismay it didn’t have a file manager.

    Considering what was described about the Core and Net ISOs, I guess it would be something like the Core ISO of antiX with the items I mentioned above, but then it ends up becoming the Base ISO?

    According to the research I did, Debian has a multi-DVD option, where the first one is for installing and the others are for repository, but I don’t know if this is true.

    It is really a challenge to put antiX on one CD. Would it have to have only CLI (text interface) programs?

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    – – – – –

    How many people are taking advantage of the Base installation?

    Isso é tão difícil dizer. O número de pessoas que baixou a ISO do Source Forge não representam absolutamente nada. Eu, por exemplo, baixo apenas uma única vez e com uma ISO instalo o antiX em vários computadores.

    I’ve been one that has often used it, but I am not resource constrained in any way. Moreover, I could use either Core or Full instead of Base, if there is anything I want or need from either of them.

    A ISO Base que eu aprendi a utilizar foi o presente do Xecure “antiX-19-legacy-bet2_386-base.iso”, certamente a versão Base é muito mais amigável para o usuário comum do que a versão Core ou Net que exigem conhecimentos avançados para construir um sistema antiX totalmente personalizado. Eu espero um dia poder ter conhecimentos suficientes para usar uma das duas opções e aprender aproveitá-las.

    Of those who DO regularly use Base, is anyone restricted in any way to using only CD?

    Seria realmente importante que as pessoas que necessitam do antiX em CD se manifestassem, em especial as pessoas que utilizam os computadores que não conseguem inicializar a partir do dispositivo USB.

    If there isn’t, then there is no real need to keep the iso below 700MB.

    Eu fico imaginando como é difícil construir um sistema operacional com tantos recursos que o antiX possui em um CD, os programas cada vez mais possuem mais MB.
    Eu imagino que seria preciso usar como referência o Tiny Core Plus. O que eu me lembro de ter testado o Tiny Core Plus 11.0, vem com uma interface gráfica, terminal, editor de texto, Apps (algo equivalente a uma mistura entre o Synaptic e o Package Installer), gerenciador de configurações (hora, teclado, etc.), eu não sei como, mas a maioria das placas de rede LAN ou Wi-Fi funcionavam e para o meu desespero não tinha um gerenciador de arquivos.

    Considerando o que foi descrito sobre as ISOs Core e Net, eu acho que seria algo como a ISO Core do antiX com os itens que citei acima, mas assim acaba virando a ISO Base?

    Segundo a pesquisa que eu fiz, o Debian possui uma opção de vários DVDs, onde o primeiro serve para instalar e os outros como repositório, mas eu não sei se isso é verdade.

    É realmente um desafio colocar o antiX em um CD. Será que teria que ter apenas programas CLI (interface de texto)?

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em Português do Brasil)

    #66508
    Moderator
    BobC
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    I didn’t see anyone here that NEEDED the 700 mb CD version, or did I miss something?

    I think likely many of the downloads are from people looking for a “lighter” install, not necessarily because they MUST boot/install from a CD-ROM.

    What if you just don’t create the base version? Maybe the easy answer is to make LibreOffice optional on the install and offer Net, Core and Full. If people need a way to install from CD, give them a way to install Core and add a package with Base or Full equivalency.

    #66515
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    seaken64
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    I have several computers that are about 20 years old. None of them NEED a CD to boot. With the advent of Plop on Floppy or CD it is no longer necessary. All of my Pentium 4’s allow booting from USB or have a DVD. It’s not likely that many folks NEED a CD to boot. And for those that do they can learn how to use the Core system. If they are using that ancient of equipment maybe they will be motivated to learn how to start with Core. Or maybe someone can make a “spin” that boots the Base system in 700MB or less.

    Seaken64

    #66536
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    Robin
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    Well, maybe I’m mistaken, but I presumed the base edition to be meant as something like a fallback in case the full version couldn’t run on a specific PC for some reason (From this thread I’ve learned there are some other legitimate reasons). But as stated by others already, this job could be done by using the core version as well. This is true especially when people who have the knowledge needed are providing scripts or tutorials for the transformation process from the core version to something like a base version. So for me personally there is no pressing need to have a base version at all. If it is kept, I would reckon the drivers and firmware for any type of hardware shouldn’t get removed, since this is the most difficult part for unexperienced users, and these are what is needed most to boot up to a basic functionality. Whether It needs to fit on a CD or not — this is something not easy to determine. From my experience, merely personal again: Even when my athlon-XP needs a CD/DVD for booting for some reason, using the from=USB cheatcode to use an USB device (The board is capable to boot from USB directly, but antiX stops with panic after some seconds when booting from USB, not immediately, but after the splash screen which lets you select languages, time zone and other settings). I don’t need a base version for this anyway. Full antiX runs like a charm on this 20 years old device, so I’m fine with any decision you will take. And If I come across a machine not able to handle full edition, there will be a way to set it up from core version, I’m sure of this. And now, to anticapitalista and all the antiX developers: I’ll seize the opportunity to say thank you very much for the great work you are doing here for all of us, turning this antiX-OS to reality and keeping it alive, for the benefit of our elderly machines.
    Robin

    #66554
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    Good feedback! The final decision will, of course, come from our excellent founder anticapitalista.

    Brian Masinick

    #66557
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

    For antiX-21 release, I’ve decided not to attempt to get base less than 700MB.
    I’ll keep it as small as possible (it is c770MB).
    It will ship with seamonkey browser, 1 legacy kernel and whatever else antiX-base usually ships with.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #66562
    Forum Admin
    Dave
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    anti, another thought.
    I know that you can load an antiX cd and select boot from usb/hard disk. Maybe there could be a cd with only the bootloader or advise people / have a manual on how to use net to boot from usb?

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #66573
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    Robin
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    I’ll keep it as small as possible (it is c770MB).

    Possibly we should add a hint right to the download section, that there exist recordable CDs with a nominal capacity of 800MB (and even 900MB, but less common) which do work fine in many default CD drives and writers, so this is a chance for PCs not able to boot from USB and without an explicit DVD device to still use the antiX base edition.

    If you never have used that type of CD you will possibly need some testing until you get the result you are looking for. On the same physical burning device some CD burning software is able to create fully usable 800 and 900 MB CDs, and other software (like e.G. Nero) is known to create unreadable CDs under some conditions, always under the assumption you have set the correct overburning options and use the DAO mode (disc at once). So don’t give up, just try another software. So it’s a bit tricky, kind of try and error, until you can burn successfully your first fully functioning 800 or 900 MB CD on a specific hardware, but if you really need it, this works in most cases. Even older hardware models are capable of this, and once you’ve blazed the trail it is nothing different from burning an ordinary 700MB CD.

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