antiX-22 being worked on

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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@stevesr0

1. depends on what you have installed.
2. Pulseaudio is already systemd/elogind free. Pipewire needs one or the other.
3. yes

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member stevesr0]

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@ anticapitalista,

Thanks for response.

Currently, running a simulated removal of libelogind0 calls apt removes at-spi2-core, gir1.2-wp-0.4, libapt-inst2.0, libapt-pkg5.0, libspa-0.2-bluetooth, libspa-0.2-modules, vlc and vlc-plugin-base (version 3.0.17.4-3) in addition to pipewire packages.

I guess I will wait a bit and see if I find a way to render pipewire free of libelogind0, or if someone else provides this.

I believe you have said that vlc really doesn’t depend upon libelogind0; I believe that is likely because I allowed a newer version to get installed instead of the available 3.0.17.4-2.0nosystemd1 version. When I have some time, I will try installing the nosystemd version and repeating my simulated removal of libelogind0.

** I note that libapt-pkg5.0 has libelogind0 as a dependency. Although it is involved in package management, it is listed as “optional” so perhaps its removal is OK?

From what you say, I assume that one could install elogind/libelogind0 into antiX-22 if they have packages that they wish to keep that do require elogind/libelogind0?

stevesr0

[Member olsztyn]

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BobC wrote:

I did however find a post from olstxyn that it would reduce the memory footprint, which would be a tremendous plus on the older machines where bigger and slower programs are perpetually a growing problem.

Just to put these things in perspective:
– I did notice a slight reduction of memory footprint on my machines I tested, after elimination of *elogind* and replacing with seatd. However the memory footprint reduction was not that significant to make a difference in antiX’ capability to run on old machines. Machines I tested this were core2duo and i5 based Thinkpads from circa 2008-2010.
– I am not familiar with technical details to explain exact differences of architecture between *elogind* way and seatd. Hopefully someone knowledgeable will provide more useful explanation.
My understanding is that *elogind* is basically architected in a similar fashion as systemd, just without the init part. So this similarity is in effect after the system is fully initialized, rather than during the init phase, where *elogind* behaves just like systemd, namely enforcing control over variety of processes and tasks it should have no business to be in control of. This is not in the spirit of Unix, and should not be in the spirit of Linux. The idea is to be free from such tyranny, which tries to take away the individual freedom of components to be on their own and make them subject to the whim of such artificial control or oppressive ‘government’.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@olsztyn: said: “This is not in the spirit of Unix, and should not be in the spirit of Linux.”

The original UNIX had one function, one input and one output. Pipes and filters to group multiple procedures together to perform a complex task.

While you can still do that with some programs, many others have grown so big that it takes pages just to list their options and features. A lot of features are in the typical command today. Bash is absolutely huge compared to the original UNIX shell. Zsh is even bigger.

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Brian Masinick

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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We all have a tendency to do a few more things and ask for a few more.

Though it is tempting, keeping antiX as close to the Base as possible is a good idea for lean efficient operations and keeping as close as possible to the original lean design.

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Brian Masinick

[Member oops]

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anticapitalista wrote:

This is just to let you know that antiX-22 is being worked on.

I have decided to up the version to 22 rather than 21.1 because antiX-22 will be completely free of elogind/libelogind0.
It will use seatd instead.

I have been running antiX-21 like this for months (installed and frugal) without issue.

Is an antiX procedure already exist to switch easily between elogind/libelogind0 and seatd ? (and the opposite way too)

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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oops wrote:

Is an antiX procedure already exist to switch easily between elogind/libelogind0 and seatd ? (and the opposite way too)

https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/removing-libelogind0-testers-needed/

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member oops]

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… Thank you again anticapitalista.

[Member marcelocripe]

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Hello anticapitalista.

I thank you for creating and maintaining antiX, and for allowing us to express our suggestions and requests. I was very happy with the previous suggestions and requests, I hope at least Wallon’s idea can be implemented, because those who don’t need the translations can delete the /usr/share/locale/ folders from their antiX with a few clicks. My suggestions are mixed with requests, please check the possibility and feasibility of them being implemented or not.

Requests and suggestions:

-Use all the latest translations available from the official Transifex and Transifex contribs.
-Use all the latest translations available in Transifex contribs/GitLab for the .desktop files, especially the .desktop files that are native antiX programs.
-Use the latest version of the desktop-menu script which is very close to perfect (Dave is working on getting the desktop-menu completed).
-Use for reference the report I sent you of the programs that are not translated in antiX 21 that were translated in antiX 19. Please look at the private conversations which are titled “Programs used in antiX to be translated” from December 2021 to May 2022.
-Use Debinstaller as GUI for installing .deb packages in antiX 22. I have noticed a significant amount of people looking for GDeb in antiX 21 to install packages and these people have been told that GDeb has problems and to use the terminal with the command $ sudo apt install followed by a space and to drag the package in the terminal window. However, PPC has already done this with Debinstaller. Thanks to Robin’s teachings via HexChat, I tried to create the .deb package of Debinstaller.deb, but I still couldn’t get the package to work.

Suggestions:

-Use in antiX 22 the wallpapers from previous antiX versions.
-Make the zzz-IceWM desktop the default. People meeting antiX for the first time do not know that there are several desktop options (window manager + file manager), plus it is more difficult for a newcomer to antiX to use Rox-IceWM, due to ROX-Filer having very different features to most other file managers.
-The FT10 available in ISO full. (I know this idea was already presented in this thread and the intention was very well justified)
-The possibility to use the antixscreenshot.sh that is being updated by BobC and Robin, because this version has several very interesting features.
-The base ISO still fits in a CD. I just don’t know how this will be possible with the ever increasing size of programs and drivers.

My main request:

Please create ways for antiX Linux to live on, even when we are no longer here. Unfortunately, people will inevitably get sick and die one day, antiX Linux can live on for generations to come and live on forever.

marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese language)

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Olá, anticapitalista.

Eu agradeço por você criar e manter o antiX, e ainda por permitir a nós expressarmos as nossas sugestões e pedidos. Eu fiquei muito contente com as sugestões e pedidos anteriores, eu espero que ao menos a ideia do Wallon possa ser implementada, pois quem não precisar das traduções poderá apagar do seu antiX com poucos cliques as pastas /usr/share/locale/. As minhas sugestões se misturam com pedidos, por favor, verifique a possibilidade e a viabilidade de serem implementadas ou não.

Pedidos e sugestões:

-Utilizar todas as traduções mais recentes disponíveis no Transifex oficial e do Transifex contribs.
-Utilizar todas as traduções mais recentes disponíveis no Transifex contribs/GitLab para os arquivos .desktop, em especial os arquivos .desktop que são dos programas nativos do antiX.
-Utilizar a versão mais recente do script desktop-menu que está muito próximo da perfeição. (O Dave está trabalhando para que o desktop-menu seja concluído).
-Utilizar como referência o relatório que eu te enviei dos programas que não estão traduzidos no antiX 21 e que eram traduzidos no antiX 19. Por favor, olhe nas conversas particulares que possui o título “Programs used in antiX to be translated” de Dezembro de 2021 a Maio de 2022.
-Utilizar o Debinstaller como GUI para a instalação de pacotes .deb no antiX 22. Eu consegui perceber uma quantidade significativa de pessoas procurando o GDeb no antiX 21 para instalar os pacotes e estas pessoas receberam a explicação de que o GDeb possui problemas e para utilizarem o terminal com o comando $ sudo apt install seguido de um espaço e para arrastarem o pacote na janela do terminal. Contudo, o PPC já fez isso com o Debinstaller. Graças aos ensinamentos do Robin através do HexChat, eu tentei criar o pacote .deb do Debinstaller.deb, mas eu ainda não consegui fazer o pacote funcionar.

Sugestões:

-Utilizar no antiX 22 os papéis de parede das versões anteriores antiX.
-Tornar a área de trabalho zzz-IceWM a padrão. As pessoas que encontram o antiX pela primeira vez não sabem que existem várias opções de área de trabalho (gerenciador de janelas + gerenciador de arquivos), além de ser mais difícil para um recém chegado no antiX utilizar o Rox-IceWM, devido o ROX-Filer possuir características muito diferentes da maioria dos outros gerenciadores de arquivos.
-O FT10 disponível na ISO full. (Eu sei que esta ideia já foi apresentada neste tópico e foi muito bem justificada a intenção)
-A possibilidade de utilizar o antixscreenshot.sh que está sendo atualizado pelo BobC e o Robin, porque esta versão possui diversas funcionalidades muito interessantes.
-A ISO base continuar cabendo em um CD. Eu só não sei como isso será possível com o tamanho cada vez maior dos programas e dos controladores.

O meu pedido principal:

Por favor, crie meios do antiX Linux continuar vivo, mesmo quando nós não estivermos mais aqui. Infelizmente, as pessoas inevitavelmente adoecerão e morrerão um dia, já o antiX Linux pode continuar vivo para as próximas gerações e viver eternamente.

marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@marcelocripe:

That’s a very thoughtful and worthwhile list of suggestions. I’m not sure that all of them will make it into the final images but hopefully most, if not all, of the work done will at least get into the repository and hopefully the package installer.

You have made a solid case with your suggestions and I am optimistic that we will see many of them included in some way and perhaps they’ll be a part of the Full image!

Either way, your suggestions are precisely the kind of suggestions that most software leaders prefer and appreciate; thank you very much!

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Brian Masinick

[Member calciumsodium]

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I want to put in a good word for rox-icewm as the default window manager. Rox is very simple and beautiful to use. It uses very little memory. Icewm is very beautiful window manager. The icewm themes are very cool. I love the battery usage/wifi/cpu readouts in the icewm default.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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rox-icewm will always be the default.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Regarding this suggestion from Marcelocripe:

-Make the zzz-IceWM desktop the default. People meeting antiX for the first time do not know that there are several desktop options (window manager + file manager), plus it is more difficult for a newcomer to antiX to use Rox-IceWM, due to ROX-Filer having very different features to most other file managers.

Marcelo, I understand and appreciate that ROX-Filer may not be familiar to everyone, but it really is not that hard to learn.
As people who have “learned” we have two choices for newcomers:

1) Teach them how to use ROX; it’s not that difficult or
2) Show them a simple command or show them Menu —> Applications —> System —> Package Installer and install another file manager

The more “technical”, but arguably faster way:

apt-cache search zzzfm
desktop-defaults-zzzfm-antix – desktop defaults for antiX zzzfm desktop.
zzzfm – Multi-panel tabbed file manager – GTK2 version
zzzfm-common – Multi-panel tabbed file manager – common files
zzzfm-gtk3 – Multi-panel tabbed file manager – GTK3 version

Choose the one you want, then
sudo apt update; sudo apt install zzzfm (or one of the others).

Yes, these things may be past a new user’s understanding, but you can either teach them, do it for them, or guide them to learn these things.

This phrase is from a Chinese proverb. The full text is: “Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.”

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

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Brian Masinick

[Moderator BobC]

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Maybe creating a step by step, easy to follow how to video would be a good alternative solution.

Switching the desktop and file manager from Rox to zzzfm is easy and quick.

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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BobC wrote:

Maybe creating a step by step, easy to follow how to video would be a good alternative solution.

Switching the desktop and file manager from Rox to zzzfm is easy and quick.

I like that idea too, @BobC: though that’s an area where I have limited expertise, so I’m hesitant to recommend something I have difficulty doing myself, but if someone is willing to do this, I endorse the idea.

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Brian Masinick

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