antiX-23.1 coming soon [actually, it is AVAILABLE!]

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-23.1 coming soon [actually, it is AVAILABLE!]

  • This topic has 468 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated Apr 25-9:00 pm by fladd.
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  • #127224
    Member
    olsztyn

      I also think that we’ve honed in on utilizing Pipewire and it’s family of packages as the primary vehicle for delivering audio services; we’ve also provided ways to enable and disable these services; those who choose NOT to use them STILL have the ability to remove and/or replace them with whatever works best for their own purposes.

      Yes, indeed. My concern is though that this methodology of switching sound technologies back and forth opens another can of worms as not all might be entirely switched in some cases, given complexity of the entire sound infrastructure. Even with a very limited number of testers I think I have seen some posts to that effect. Just wait when it goes to entire population of users…
      My personal feeling is that if pipewire is decided as default sound for antiX Full, then it should be provided in perfectly working order and flipping to ALSA should be an individual responsibility.

      Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
      http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

      #127248
      Moderator
      Brian Masinick

        @olsztyn says “if pipewire is decided as default sound for antiX Full, then it should be provided in perfectly working order.”

        I can’t argue with that logic; I’ve been testing and using Pipewire all along myself. When antiX 23 was first released, I was really delighted. I use a variety of Web browsers, ranging from Palemoon to all three of the Firefox variations – release, development edition (equivalent to Beta), and Nightly, and I also use Chome, Chromium, (though recently, at least with antiX, I’ve gone with Ungoogled Chromium), and I also use LibreWolf quite often instead of Firefox, plus on occasion I’ll use SeaMonkey, so I exercise quite a few Web Browsers.

        During antiX 21 and 22, I HAD to use apulse in front of my browser invocations to obtain sound from my browsers, in spite of the fact that I could use the sound tester – you know, “Front Left, Front Right, Front Left, Front Right…” and it’d work, but unless I used apulse with my browsers, they’d rarely deliver sound, at least not reliably. Worse, apulse usually worked, but a couple of times the combination of apulse in front of the browser spec, whether calling from the command line or inserting it into my action icons that call the apps, would cause a browser failure.

        Once antiX 23 was in testing with Pipewire, at least for me, I was delighted to see it work 100% of the time, minus the near mandatory former requirement to prepend browser entries with the apulse service. I understand that mine is a single user case, but I can also tell you that I frequently tried it on TWO different systems – the HP-14 and the Dell Inspiron 5558 and both work great with Pipewire. I’ve also used our latest release on a really old HP desktop, two Lenovo laptops (X201 and T510), but I admit that I don’t use any of these often and I also do not remember heavily exercising audio or video on those systems, but I do at least have two hardware instances and several software instances with the Pipewire option, and I’ve also spotted Pipewire in action on one of my really nice full-featured distributions, Endeavour OS, which is a cutting edge distribution in the Arch Linux family, and it’s really nice with Pipewire too.

        So I agree that we need more people to work with Pipewire and either give it a blessing or give us explicit scenarios with detailed conditions and steps to follow to assist us in further hardening our solution because it does appear to be the latest in the Linux saga of recommended sound solutions – let’s heavily test it and report defects properly and get them fixed; otherwise we will have to engineer or harden another approach, and as I’ve already stated, our previous methods have yielded unstable results in my opinion. I have NOT run those older solutions recently because Pipewire HAS worked quite well for me.

        For @Xunzi_23 and anyone else who is against Pipewire, it appears that anticapitalista recently stated that Pipewire *would* be the solution going forward, so let’s ramp up testing and iron out any remaining issues, or propose YET ANOTHER solution that will ALSO have to undergo rigorous testing; I prefer the former option, TEST and resolve any remaining issues with Pipewire, reporting defects and correcting them.

        • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

        --
        Brian Masinick

        #127254
        Member
        andfree

          Finder (I’m not 100% convinced that including the AI is a plus).

          I’m anything but convinced that AI is for good, but I feel I should point out that, in my case, AI included in Finder works, while the same AI via terminals doesn’t. I have written about it here.

          #127257
          Member
          PPC

            I think that currently the only thing missing is having the latest IceWM Control Centre up for localization on Transifex…

            @anticapitalista- we can disable Finder’s GTP button editing it out of the script’s main window any time you wish to do so. No further change is required.

            P.

            #127260
            Member
            olsztyn

              For @Xunzi_23 and anyone else who is against Pipewire, it appears that anticapitalista recently stated that Pipewire *would* be the solution going forward, so let’s ramp up testing and iron out any remaining issues, or propose YET ANOTHER solution that will ALSO have to undergo rigorous testing; I prefer the former option, TEST and resolve any remaining issues with Pipewire, reporting defects and correcting them.

              I just want to add to this as a user for whom pipewire sound has been working just fine:
              – The initial issues have been a matter of configuration. Post later configuration change per enhancement published by abc-nix, pipewire should be solid now for other users as well. The only sore point that I see remaining is volumeicon delay used by some users for volumeicon to come up. I am using just ‘sleep 1’, but it is with LXPanel. For IceWM it seems still way too high the way I saw this reported.
              – My point was that in antiX 23.1 Full pipewire should be provided by default in perfectly working order. Switching back and forth between pipewire and ALSA seems a nice capability but it just opens a potential for malfunctioning, considering complexity of sound system infrastructure. Let us see if aanticapitalista will include such switch…

              Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
              http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

              #127261
              Member
              PPC

                About Pipewire and XMMS- I forgot to mention that I found out that XMMS should be configured to work with pipewire, or else it will take over the audio output – XMMS will play sound, but it will not allow any other app to play sound at the same time.

                XMMS menu > Options > Preferences > In the Output Plugin drop-down box make sure to select “PulseAudio Output Plugin…” > Click the “Apply” ant then the “Ok” button.
                The default option, for Alsa is “Alsa 1.2.11”.

                #127262
                Member
                Xunzi_23

                  Maybe the Bullsht could cease. I am not against pipewire per se…

                  It does not work on a number of local systems, no matter which proposals and solutions were tried.
                  Interestingly the same problem occurs with an alternative OS whereas alsa just works, on all supported
                  user devices..

                  This is more like a beliefs war than constructive so no more posts from me on the subject.

                  #127272
                  Member
                  marcelocripe

                    The antiX 23.1 could also receive the JWM toolbar icon manager program that PPC developed.
                    PPC, I still have the program you sent me to help test.
                    The IceWM toolbar icon manager “.desktop” file, I changed the texts from IceWM to JWM.
                    If other people can help test the JWM toolbar icon manager program that anticapitalist wants to include in antiX 23.1, I think that would be great.
                    The text file has the commands needed to test the program with the JWM toolbar icon manager menu.

                    – – – – –

                    O antiX 23.1 poderia receber também o programa gerenciador de ícones da barra de ferramentas do JWM que o PPC desenvolveu.
                    PPC, eu ainda tenho o programa que você me enviou para ajudar a testar.
                    O arquivo “.desktop” do gerenciador de ícones da barra de ferramentas do IceWM, eu alterei os textos de IceWM para JWM.
                    Se outras pessoas puderem ajudar a testar o programa gerenciador de ícones da barra de ferramentas do JWM e o anticapitalista quiser incluir no antiX 23.1, eu acho que seria muito bom.
                    O arquivo de texto possui os comandos necessários para testar o programa com o menu do gerenciador de ícones da barra de ferramentas do JWM.

                    #127277
                    Member
                    madibi

                      Many thanks to anticapitalista and the developers for this beautiful Christmas gift :-)

                      happy holy holidays to everybody !
                      m

                      #127278
                      Member
                      PPC

                        JWM toolbar icon manager

                        Dear Marcelo – There’s really no need to include this script, since app-select already does the same thing (in IceWM and JWM).

                        P.

                        #127284
                        Member
                        Robin

                          My point was that in antiX 23.1 Full pipewire should be provided by default in perfectly working order. Switching back and forth between pipewire and ALSA seems a nice capability but it just opens a potential for malfunctioning, considering complexity of sound system infrastructure. Let us see if aanticapitalista will include such switch

                          My point on this: Not including such a switch excludes all the weaker hardware from antiX. I don’t think this could be considered a desirable move. Now, after having updated my antiX 23 runit full 32 bit live system to most current state from the repos, which includes pipewire 1.0.0.1, and making some more pipewire tests on it (detailed report to come), I have to second Xunzi. With the current state of pipewire it is simply impossible to have it activated also on this device, which has done before great on antiX (see this thread and that one), no, let’s even say perfectly. From my postings concerning pipwire running on my 64 bit desktop (see screenshots above in this thread) you can take I’m completely pro this sound server available and even activated by default on antiX. It opens up great possibilities on all machines which can stem the additional load.

                          Some observations to undergrid my point with some facts:

                          antiX 23 runit full 64 bit live (still on 0.3.85 pipewire, system still not upgraded, but I recon this doesn’t matter, since pipwire works great on it already in this version; I don’t expect any quirks on it from the upgrade)

                          pavucontrol:    0,6% to 1,9%  CPU constantly
                          pipewire:       0,6% to 1,3%  CPU constantly
                          pipewire-pulse: 0,6% to 1,3%  CPU constantly
                          wireplumber:    0,0  to 0,2%  CPU constantly
                          _________________________________
                          sums up to:     1,8% to 4,7%  CPU constantly
                          alsamixer:      0,1% constant CPU constantly
                          easyeffects:    3,2% to 4,5%  CPU   (when window is mapped: up to 25% CPU, probably
                                                              caused by the twitchy level indicators)

                          The min and max values give the range I’ve observed in htop during a period of some minutes, while using the system normally, and also putting some stress on it by running multiple audio streams from different sources parallel to different output devices or a background tasks with completely lowered volume to monitoring headphones, whiled e.g. starting TV and radio in the foreground the same time (yes that’s not a real scenario, but it puts the audio system under heavy load).
                          Activating the equalizer improves sound quality to a degree you won’t believe if not heard your own. Running pipewire without this equalizer produces sound from this PC in a muffled tone, like you’d run it through a bandpass filter, compared with plain alsa from former antiX.

                          After some diagnosing and testing it turned out the reason for this is the default alsamixer-equaliser provided by antiX and running great on plain alsa systems, doesn’t have any effect any longer on sound output once pipewire is activated.

                          And another finding: Pipewire sets the alsamixer controls to max instead of the indicated 90%. This can cause clipping at this point of processing chain. I noticed sound gets clearer already when just lowering these to the end of green in all alsamixer controls while pipewire and pavucontrol is running, and rising the controls in the latter instead a bit to get an equal sound volume.

                          So, all in all Pipewire is running perfectly fine on this device:

                          $ inxi -A
                          Audio:
                            Device-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio
                              driver: snd_hda_intel
                            Device-2: AMD Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300/7300 Series]
                              driver: snd_hda_intel
                            Sound API: ALSA v: k6.1.55-antix.1-amd64-smp running: yes
                            Sound Server-1: PipeWire v: 0.3.85 running: yes
                          $ wpctl status
                          PipeWire 'pipewire-0' [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, cookie:3431117869]
                           └─ Clients:
                                  32. pipewire                            [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1017124]
                                  34. WirePlumber                         [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1017122]
                                  35. WirePlumber [export]                [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1017122]
                                  55. PipeWire ALSA [volumeicon]          [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1017376]
                                  59. mpv                                 [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:3101918]
                                  71. PipeWire ALSA [alsamixer]           [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1123152]
                                  80. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler        [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:3739039]
                                  81. Firefox                             [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:2665062]
                                 208. wpctl                               [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:2208169]
                                 275. easyeffects                         [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1488097]
                                 286. mpv                                 [0.3.85, Robin@antix2, pid:1194396]
                          Audio
                           ├─ Devices:
                           │      42. Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300/7300 Series] [alsa]
                           │      54. Internes Audio                      [alsa]
                           │  
                           ├─ Sinks:
                           │      41. Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300/7300 Series] Digital Stereo (HDMI) [vol: 1.53]
                           │  *   53. Internes Audio Analog Stereo        [vol: 0.75]
                           │     185. Easy Effects Sink                   [vol: 1.00]
                           │  
                           ├─ Sink endpoints:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sources:
                           │  *   49. Internes Audio Analog Stereo        [vol: 1.00]
                           │     276. Easy Effects Source                 [vol: 1.00]
                           │  
                           ├─ Source endpoints:
                           │  
                           └─ Streams:
                                  33. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       56. monitor_FR     
                                       58. input_FR        < VT1708S Analog:monitor_FR	[active]
                                       60. input_FL        < VT1708S Analog:monitor_FL	[active]
                                       76. monitor_FL     
                                  48. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       73. monitor_FR     
                                       96. monitor_FL     
                                      123. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      167. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                  63. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       86. input_FR        < HDMI 0 *:monitor_FR	[active]
                                       91. input_FL        < HDMI 0 *:monitor_FL	[active]
                                      130. monitor_FL     
                                      137. monitor_FR     
                                  89. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      161. monitor_FR     
                                      209. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      257. monitor_FL     
                                      262. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                  92. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       84. monitor_FR     
                                      214. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      215. monitor_FL     
                                      220. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                  93. mpv                                                         
                                       87. output_FR       > PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler:input_FR	[init]
                                       97. output_FL       > PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler:input_FL	[init]
                                 110. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      157. monitor_FL     
                                      196. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      223. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      296. monitor_FR     
                                 111. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      199. input_FR        < Easy Effects Source:capture_FR	[active]
                                      227. monitor_FL     
                                      236. input_FL        < Easy Effects Source:capture_FL	[active]
                                      272. monitor_FR     
                                 116. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       61. input_FL        < VT1708S Analog:capture_FL	[active]
                                       65. input_FR        < VT1708S Analog:capture_FR	[active]
                                      120. monitor_FL     
                                      139. monitor_FR     
                                 128. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       75. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                       82. monitor_FR     
                                      101. monitor_FL     
                                      103. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                 141. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      108. monitor_FR     
                                      186. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      187. monitor_FL     
                                      192. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                 142. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      154. monitor_FL     
                                      155. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      156. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      168. monitor_FR     
                                 144. mpv                                                         
                                      125. output_FR       > PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler:input_FR	[active]
                                      213. output_FL       > Easy Effects Sink:playback_FL	[active]
                                 151. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       62. monitor_FL     
                                      106. input_FR        < Easy Effects Sink:monitor_FR	[active]
                                      164. monitor_FR     
                                      289. input_FL        < Easy Effects Sink:monitor_FL	[active]
                                 153. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       51. monitor_FR     
                                      114. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      134. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      138. monitor_FL     
                                 172. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      228. monitor_FL     
                                      229. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      230. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      234. monitor_FR     
                                 188. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      115. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      191. monitor_FR     
                                      201. monitor_FL     
                                      206. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                 200. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       79. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      100. monitor_FR     
                                      122. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      160. monitor_FL     
                                 202. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       70. monitor_FL     
                                      147. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      149. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      205. monitor_FR     
                                 211. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       94. monitor_FL     
                                      243. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      244. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      248. monitor_FR     
                                 216. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      117. monitor_FL     
                                      121. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      173. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      219. monitor_FR     
                                 242. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      159. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      174. monitor_FR     
                                      176. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      233. monitor_FL     
                                 256. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       78. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      113. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      210. monitor_FR     
                                      247. monitor_FL     
                                 258. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       69. monitor_FL     
                                      175. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      180. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      261. monitor_FR     
                                 284. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      277. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      283. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      285. monitor_FL     
                                      287. monitor_FR     
                                 297. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      162. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[active]
                                      193. monitor_FR     
                                      279. monitor_FL     
                                      282. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[active]
                                 305. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      306. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[init]
                                      307. monitor_FL     
                                      308. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[init]
                                      309. monitor_FR     
                          Video
                           ├─ Devices:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sinks:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sink endpoints:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sources:
                           │  
                           ├─ Source endpoints:
                           │  
                           └─ Streams:
                          Settings
                           └─ Default Configured Node Names:
                          

                          Now, let’s come my observations on my second device, which did great before (see links above). Even after upgrading, pipewire is a complete fail on it.

                          pavucontrol:     19% to 27% CPU constantly
                          pipewire:        10% to 16% CPU constantly
                          pipewire-pulse:   5% to  9% CPU constantly
                          wireplumber:      1% to  1% CPU constantly
                          __________________________________________
                          sums up to:      34% to 53% CPU constantly
                          alsamixer:       0,4 % constant CPU constantly
                          easyeffects:     3,2% to 4,5%  CPU constantly

                          34% to 53% ?! This is ridiculous for just playing sound from a single source! All the additional load comes merely from pipewire and it’s friends. Playing sound on plain alsa does the same job with far below 10% (0,4% in general) on the very machine on the very antiX, you can even play multiple streams the same time without running out of steam.

                          What is even worse is: There are faint but nasty crackling noises in audio when running on pipewire on this single core machine, always when opening a window or a program, moving windows around, moving the mouse in antiX main menu over the entries, each entry a clicking noise in audio output. The same when keying in something. Each keystroke causing multiple faint clicking noises in the speakers. It is completely unusable with current pipewire active. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. I really like the options pipewire opens on 64 bit multicore, but here on 32 bit single core it seems to be a no-go, even on a device known to perform perfectly on antiX 22 and 23. We can’t ignore this fact.

                          The same time all programs and even the windowmanager and desktop suffers from a noteable delay (probably from the constantly high system load caused by pipewire). The mouse stutters for a second frequently when it is activated, or fails to recognise one click or another. All this only if pipewire is activated.

                          $ inxi -A
                          Audio:
                            Device-1: Intel 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW High Definition Audio
                              driver: snd_hda_intel
                            Device-2: Philips s SAA7131/SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder
                              driver: saa7134
                            Sound API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-13-686-pae running: yes
                            Sound Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 running: yes
                          $ wpctl status
                          PipeWire 'pipewire-0' [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, cookie:528230673]
                           └─ Clients:
                                  32. pipewire                            [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:17442]
                                  34. WirePlumber                         [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:17439]
                                  35. WirePlumber [export]                [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:17439]
                                  58. PipeWire ALSA [volumeicon]          [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:1805]
                                  66. mpv                                 [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:2049]
                                 112. PipeWire ALSA [alsamixer]           [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:26888]
                                 123. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler        [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:1966]
                                 165. wpctl                               [1.0.0, Robin@antix1, pid:6870]
                          Audio
                           ├─ Devices:
                           │      43. Internes Audio                      [alsa]
                           │      44. SAA7131/SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder [alsa]
                           │  
                           ├─ Sinks:
                           │      74. Internes Audio Pro 1                [vol: 1.00]
                           │      75. Internes Audio Pro 6                [vol: 1.00]
                           │  *  105. Internes Audio Pro                  [vol: 0.87]
                           │  
                           ├─ Sink endpoints:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sources:
                           │      53. SAA7131/SAA7133/SAA7135 Video Broadcast Decoder Stereo [vol: 1.00 MUTED]
                           │      61. Internes Audio Pro 1                [vol: 1.00]
                           │  *   73. Internes Audio Pro                  [vol: 1.00]
                           │      77. Internes Audio Pro 6                [vol: 1.00]
                           │     136. Internes Audio Pro 2                [vol: 1.00]
                           │  
                           ├─ Source endpoints:
                           │  
                           └─ Streams:
                                  33. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      111. monitor_FL     
                                      118. input_FL        < ALC880 Digital:capture_AUX0	[active]
                                      126. monitor_FR     
                                      135. input_FR        < ALC880 Digital:capture_AUX1	[active]
                                  54. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       48. monitor_FR     
                                       63. monitor_FL     
                                      144. input_FR       
                                      146. input_FL        < Si3054 Modem:monitor_AUX0	[active]
                                  60. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       80. monitor_FR     
                                      113. input_FR        < ALC880 Analog:capture_AUX1	[active]
                                      117. input_FL        < ALC880 Analog:capture_AUX0	[active]
                                      119. monitor_FL     
                                  71. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       94. monitor_FR     
                                       96. monitor_FL     
                                      107. input_FR        < SAA7134 PCM:capture_FR	[active]
                                      115. input_FL        < SAA7134 PCM:capture_FL	[active]
                                  88. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       65. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                       90. monitor_FR     
                                      134. monitor_FL     
                                      142. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                  92. mpv                                                         
                                       62. output_FL       > PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler:input_FL	[paused]
                                       98. output_FR       > PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler:input_FR	[paused]
                                  95. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       49. input_FL        < ALC880 Digital:monitor_AUX0	[active]
                                       52. input_FR        < ALC880 Digital:monitor_AUX1	[active]
                                      140. monitor_FL     
                                      141. monitor_FR     
                                 104. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       68. monitor_FR     
                                       86. monitor_FL     
                                      114. input_FL        < Si3054 Modem:capture_AUX0	[active]
                                      131. input_FR       
                                 133. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       83. input_FL        < ALC880 Alt Analog:capture_AUX0	[active]
                                      101. monitor_FL     
                                      110. monitor_FR     
                                      116. input_FR        < ALC880 Alt Analog:capture_AUX1	[active]
                                 149. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                       85. monitor_FR     
                                      129. monitor_FL     
                                      137. input_FL        < ALC880 Analog:monitor_AUX0	[active]
                                      147. input_FR        < ALC880 Analog:monitor_AUX1	[active]
                                 155. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      154. monitor_FL     
                                      159. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                      188. monitor_FR     
                                      229. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                 164. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      163. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                      167. monitor_FL     
                                      171. monitor_FR     
                                      178. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                 191. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      182. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                      186. monitor_FR     
                                      190. monitor_FL     
                                      192. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                 205. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      199. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                      206. monitor_FL     
                                      210. monitor_FR     
                                      211. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                 223. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      179. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                      202. monitor_FR     
                                      221. monitor_FL     
                                      222. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                                 234. PulseAudio-Lautstärkeregler                                
                                      245. monitor_FL     
                                      246. input_FR        < mpv:output_FR	[paused]
                                      248. monitor_FR     
                                      249. input_FL        < mpv:output_FL	[paused]
                          Video
                           ├─ Devices:
                           │      42. UNKNOWN/GENERIC                     [v4l2]
                           │  
                           ├─ Sinks:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sink endpoints:
                           │  
                           ├─ Sources:
                           │  *   45. UNKNOWN/GENERIC (V4L2)             
                           │  
                           ├─ Source endpoints:
                           │  
                           └─ Streams:
                          Settings
                           └─ Default Configured Node Names:

                          My conclusion: Removing the pipewire/alsa switch to easily deactivate pipewire expels all the so called „deprecated” machines antiX runs great on as yet, at least for all users not familiar with sorting out issues by deep intervention in system on their own.

                          My proposal for a solution is: Keep this alsa/pipewire switch at all costs. Have the switch activated by default in all 64 bit ISOs, and have it deactivated by default in all 32 bit ISOs. (Maybe it will have to be narrowed down to single core vs. multicore instead of 32 vs. 64 bit, unfortunately I don’t have neither a 32 bit multicore nor a 64 bit singlecore device to test on. Somebody else around who can step in with doing the systematical testing on these?)

                          Switching back and forth between pipewire and ALSA seems a nice capability

                          On the contrary, from my findings this is not a nice to have feature merely, it’s an essential on weak machines, a sheer and very basic necessity.

                          Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                          #127285
                          Moderator
                          Brian Masinick

                            @Robin Thank you so much for this detailed explanation, example data and analysis. This quantifies and justifies some legitimate reasons for offering more than one solution. I did check one of my other systems and it always provides the pipewire, wireplumber and pipewire-pulse processes, but to your point, it’s NOT a small, nimble system designed for both recent and ancient systems, it’s a cutting edge, high performance, high consumption system. Your explanation makes clear the reasons why multiple individuals want choices, so I REALLY appreciate the depth of your explanation.

                            --
                            Brian Masinick

                            #127286
                            Forum Admin
                            anticapitalista

                              @Robin – my post says pipewire will be enabled by default on antiX-full 64 bit only.
                              Are you disagreeing?

                              Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                              antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                              #127294
                              Member
                              Robin

                                my post says pipewire will be enabled by default on antiX-full 64 bit only.
                                Are you disagreeing?

                                No objections.

                                Dear @anticapitalista,
                                whether it would be desirable for 64bit single core to add a check on startup I can’t tell with certainty, as said I have neither a singlecore 64 bit nor a multicore 32 bit testing device.

                                On the one hand everything seems fine as long there is a switch present (best in control center where people would look intuitively for something like that), so user can deactivate pipewire easily without further knowledge.

                                On the other hand a new user not knowing antiX before can easily get already on first boot the wrong impression antiX fails running fluently on his device if this switch is activated on a machine which can’t stem pipewire’s additional load (please see my edit in above posting, I had forgotten to mention the issues with other programs and mouse cursor stuttering/lagging/hanging before, sorry). How could he guess he’d just need to switch off pipewire in control center to have a perfectly fluent running system? That’s not something obvious.

                                Whether pipewire is a prize or a blank doesn’t depend on the CPU speed here: In my testing systems the 32 bit single core runs on 1.7 GHz (3458 BogoMIPS), while the multicore 64 bit runs on 1,2 GHz only (able to speed up to 3 GHz and up to 6154 bogoMIPS on demand, which it did never in my pipewire testing, not even under heavy audio processing stress testing running multiple streams parallel)

                                antiX system could do the right thing on startup for systems known not able to stem it. A simple check like this one at startup would probably do the trick already:

                                if [ $(lscpu | grep "^CPU(s):" | tr -s ' ' | cut -d' ' -f2) ] -gt 1 ] then {activate pipewire switch}; else {deactivate pipewire switch}; fi

                                This could be elaborated depending on findings of other users, maybe additionally checking for a minimum speed or bogoMIPS, both also available from lscpu (I guess there exists an even faster shortcut by directly checking for some state in /dev subfolders). It’s something which should be fine tuned for best user experience.

                                But all in all for a first round your plan to have pipewire activated on 64 bit full and deactivated on all 32 bit by default looks fine to me.

                                Kind regards
                                Robin

                                Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                                #127299
                                Member
                                olsztyn

                                  @Robin Thank you so much for this detailed explanation, example data and analysis.

                                  I also want to thank Robin for this in-depth analysis and testing…
                                  I no longer have any 32 bit laptop or any single core 64 bit. My oldest laptops are Core2Duo from 2007/2008. For users of earlier CPU technologies pipewire solution seems not viable based on Robin’s analysis, as confirmed by testing.
                                  Particular my thanks to Robin go for the equalizer role analysis, given deteriorated quality of sound without it being in place. Not completely yet understand recommendation when pipewire is in place, if the default alsamixer has no effect. Whether easyeffects, just being installed does at all improve sound quality, without particular tweaking…

                                  • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by olsztyn.

                                  Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                                  http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

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