antix-23.1_init-diversity-edition – sysvinit / runit / s6-rc / s6-66

Forum Forums antiX-development antiX Respins antix-23.1_init-diversity-edition – sysvinit / runit / s6-rc / s6-66

  • This topic has 232 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated Feb 27-2:25 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #132782
    Member
    fungalnet

      excellent work, antiX gets 66 0.7 before obarun does 🙂

      I can’t resist but wonder if those who like runit and try 66 would they ever go back?
      I can’t believe anyone would.

      #132785
      Member
      olsztyn

        I can’t resist but wonder if those who like runit and try 66 would they ever go back?
        I can’t believe anyone would.

        I have been running runit antiX exclusively for the past several years but I am open to change and if S66 proves better I am open to move over to S66. But I think it still needs work to match runit, if I am not mistaken:
        – Overhead still appears to be higher in terms of memory footprint.
        – It does need service management tool, such as one developed by Xecure for runit.

        Please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above…

        Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
        http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

        #132792
        Member
        abc-nix

          – It does need service management tool, such as one developed by Xecure for runit.

          Based on the image shared in this reply, @ProwlerGr seems to be developing it at the moment.

          #132798
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick

            I can’t resist but wonder if those who like runit and try 66 would they ever go back?
            I can’t believe anyone would.

            I have been running runit antiX exclusively for the past several years but I am open to change and if S66 proves better I am open to move over to S66. But I think it still needs work to match runit, if I am not mistaken:
            – Overhead still appears to be higher in terms of memory footprint.
            – It does need service management tool, such as one developed by Xecure for runit.

            Please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above.

            Like you, @olsztyn, I have been using runit for several years now, though not quite “exclusively”, it has been my primary init with antiX.
            I’m always willing to try out different things, so I’m “on board” with using s6 (and anything else we investigate), even if it’s not my primary or preferred personal choice.

            Now some “personal opinions from me (Brian):
            When running every day, there has not been a lot of clear, obvious difference between sysVinit and runit. Given that all of my systems have at least a few processors, and a couple have SIX CPUs, each dual processors, which provides TWELVE distinct processors capable of operating concurrently.

            So far, in day to day operation I get really good performance, from a “seat of the pants” view with runit; stability with runit and sysVinit is VERY good.

            I don’t think that my personal configurations of the init-diversity alternative have been completely optimized: for instance, I rarely have any kinds of logs, other than the really minimal system startup stuff, such as dmesg, running on either sysVinit or runit, so the two of them really perform well for me in antiX.

            The s6 options run fine once they are going. I’m not sure if it is heavy log activity or something else, but they’re definitely “laggy” in comparison to the other inits, even as I try them side-by-side in the init-diversity. This DOES NOT mean that they won’t or can’t be optimized, nor do they have to be inefficient, I simply do not personally have an optimized configuration that I can compare to others. I do have an Obaran Flash Drive, but that is not really a fair place to compare, except to run multiple systems also from Flash Drives.

            Remembering the early days of runit on antiX, it has always been fast, but it has also been lacking of a complete service environment. With s6, though our proof of concept doesn’t display all capabilities, it appears that a fairly complete service environment is available and can be configured.

            I’m always open to trying different technologies. Sometimes I end up “running” with the difference and bringing it into what I use on a regular basis; other times I simply try things to learn about them.

            The sysVinit technology has a long history. What it does offer is very lean efficiency and stability. Those traits are definitely valued, no question about it. One thing that sysVinit does not do automatically is take advantage of multi-processor technology. This doesn’t mean that you cannot carefully design a system and ultimately take advantage of it. We’ve done that for years. The sysVinit technology is mature, no question about it. The disadvantage is that the initialization of processes is serial, and therefore does not take full advantage of massively parallel process management (at the init stage), though modern hardware can overcome this and still achieve considerable parallel handling after initial start up.

            The runit approach is very light and has a small number of lines of code, though code management ceased about ten years ago. Due to simplicity, this has not proven (so far) to be a problem.

            s6 is one of the favored technologies, “When comparing runit vs s6, the Slant community recommends runit for most people. In the question“What are the best Linux init systems?” runit is ranked 2nd while s6 is ranked 4th.” The report goes into detail and the ratings are subjective. “The perfect init
            s6-rc, provides a real Service Manager, a Services Supervisor with Parallel RC and logging, upon demand. The perfect continuation, of Runit.”

            “Rock solid

            “Portable: Linux, BSD, Solaris
            POSIX.
            Can be compiled with musl.
            A lot of features including dependencies service management.
            Easy to implement with the conjunction of 66 which provide frontend file for service declaration, automatic logger creation,nested supervision tree,user service,instantiated services and many more.”

            Source: https://www.slant.co/versus/12960/31942/~runit_vs_s6

            --
            Brian Masinick

            #132801
            Moderator
            Brian Masinick

              My previous post is simply “early observations” plus references comparing various init alternatives – there is both fact AND opinion in both my own observations to date and those of “Slant”.

              I’m more than willing to continue to use and evaluate any alternatives we make available, in spite of my current feelings and preferences; those could very well change as our offerings and features mature as our short and long term efforts evolve.

              --
              Brian Masinick

              #132803
              Member
              stevesr0

                Hi Brian ‘the Mas’,

                With 12 processors running, a couple of questions come to mind:

                (1) What is your electric bill?

                (2) Do you heat your home with your computers?

                (3) Do your lights ever dim when performing a CPU intensive task?

                (4) How many bitcoins are you obtaining each day?

                <g>

                stevesr0

                #132807
                Moderator
                Brian Masinick

                  Steve, it’s actually a pretty efficient system; multi-processor computers, particularly laptop models, are NOT high energy consumers, and it’s neither expensive nor extravagent. Here is the FULL report:

                  pinxi -zv8xxxzy71
                  System:
                    Kernel: 6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
                      v: 12.2.0 clocksource: hpet avail: acpi_pm parameters: audit=0
                      intel_pstate=disable rcupdate.rcu_expedited=1
                      BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64
                      root=UUID=d7b07fc0-6501-45fa-8de4-4669a6ebc35c ro quiet selinux=0
                    Desktop: IceWM v: 3.4.5 tools: avail: slock,xlock dm: slimski
                      v: 1.5.0 Distro: antiX-23.1-runit_x64-full Arditi del Popolo 26
                      January 2024 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
                  Machine:
                    Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP Laptop 14-fq1xxx v: N/A
                      serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10
                      serial: <superuser required>
                    Mobo: HP model: 887C v: 59.11 serial: <superuser required>
                      part-nu: 51N12UA#ABA uuid: <superuser required> UEFI: AMI v: F.18
                      date: 11/26/2021
                  Battery:
                    ID-1: BAT0 charge: 40.6 Wh (99.8%) condition: 40.7/40.7 Wh (100.0%)
                      volts: 12.9 min: 11.3 model: HP Primary type: Li-ion
                      serial: <filter> status: not charging
                  Memory:
                    System RAM: total: 8 GiB available: 7.1 GiB used: 1.41 GiB (19.9%)
                    Message: For most reliable report, use superuser + dmidecode.
                    Array-1: capacity: 32 GiB slots: 2 modules: 1 EC: None
                      max-module-size: 16 GiB note: est.
                    Device-1: Bottom - Slot 1 (left) type: DDR4 detail: synchronous
                      unbuffered (unregistered) size: 8 GiB speed: 3200 MT/s volts:
                      note: check curr: 1 min: 1 max: 1 width (bits): data: 64 total: 64
                      manufacturer: Samsung part-no: M471A1K43EB1-CWE serial: <filter>
                    Device-2: Bottom - Slot 2 (right) type: no module installed
                  PCI Slots:
                    Permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
                  CPU:
                    Info: model: AMD Ryzen 5 5500U with Radeon Graphics bits: 64
                      type: MT MCP arch: Zen 2 gen: 3 level: v3 note: check built: 2020-22
                      process: TSMC n7 (7nm) family: 0x17 (23) model-id: 0x68 (104)
                      stepping: 1 microcode: 0x8608103
                    Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 6 tpc: 2 threads: 12 smt: enabled cache:
                      L1: 384 KiB desc: d-6x32 KiB; i-6x32 KiB L2: 3 MiB desc: 6x512 KiB
                      L3: 8 MiB desc: 2x4 MiB
                    Speed (MHz): avg: 545 high: 2140 min/max: 400/4056 scaling:
                      driver: amd-pstate-epp governor: performance cores: 1: 400 2: 400
                      3: 2140 4: 400 5: 400 6: 400 7: 400 8: 400 9: 400 10: 400 11: 400
                      12: 400 bogomips: 50304
                    Flags: 3dnowprefetch abm adx aes aperfmperf apic arat avic avx
                      avx2 bmi1 bmi2 bpext cat_l3 cdp_l3 clflush clflushopt clwb clzero
                      cmov cmp_legacy constant_tsc cpb cppc cpuid cqm cqm_llc
                      cqm_mbm_local cqm_mbm_total cqm_occup_llc cr8_legacy cx16 cx8 de
                      decodeassists extapic extd_apicid f16c flushbyasid fma fpu
                      fsgsbase fxsr fxsr_opt ht hw_pstate ibpb ibrs ibs irperf lahf_lm
                      lbrv lm mba mca mce misalignsse mmx mmxext monitor movbe msr mtrr
                      mwaitx nonstop_tsc nopl npt nrip_save nx osvw overflow_recov pae
                      pat pausefilter pclmulqdq pdpe1gb perfctr_core perfctr_llc
                      perfctr_nb pfthreshold pge pni popcnt pse pse36 rapl rdpid rdpru
                      rdrand rdseed rdt_a rdtscp rep_good sep sha_ni skinit smap smca
                      smep ssbd sse sse2 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 stibp succor svm
                      svm_lock syscall tce topoext tsc tsc_scale umip v_spec_ctrl
                      v_vmsave_vmload vgif vmcb_clean vme vmmcall wbnoinvd wdt xgetbv1
                      xsave xsavec xsaveerptr xsaveopt
                    Vulnerabilities:
                    Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
                    Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
                    Type: l1tf status: Not affected
                    Type: mds status: Not affected
                    Type: meltdown status: Not affected
                    Type: mmio_stale_data status: Not affected
                    Type: retbleed mitigation: untrained return thunk; SMT enabled
                      with STIBP protection
                    Type: spec_rstack_overflow mitigation: Safe RET
                    Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass
                      disabled via prctl
                    Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user
                      pointer sanitization
                    Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional,
                      STIBP: always-on, RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
                    Type: srbds status: Not affected
                    Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
                  Graphics:
                    Device-1: AMD Lucienne vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: amdgpu
                      v: kernel arch: GCN-5 code: Vega process: GF 14nm built: 2017-20
                      pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 link-max: gen: 4
                      speed: 16 GT/s ports: active: eDP-1 empty: HDMI-A-1
                      bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:164c class-ID: 0300 temp: 48.0 C
                    Device-2: Chicony HP TrueVision HD Camera driver: uvcvideo
                      type: USB rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s lanes: 1 mode: 2.0 bus-ID: 1-3:2
                      chip-ID: 04f2:b6f1 class-ID: 0e02 serial: <filter>
                    Display: server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu
                      unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu
                      display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
                    Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96
                      s-size: 508x285mm (20.00x11.22") s-diag: 582mm (22.93")
                    Monitor-1: eDP-1 mapped: eDP model: ChiMei InnoLux 0x1429
                      built: 2020 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 158 gamma: 1.2 chroma: red:
                      x: 0.592 y: 0.349 green: x: 0.329 y: 0.557 blue: x: 0.153 y: 0.118
                      white: x: 0.314 y: 0.329 size: 309x173mm (12.17x6.81")
                      diag: 354mm (13.9") ratio: 16:9 modes: 1920x1080, 1680x1050,
                      1280x1024, 1440x900, 1280x800, 1280x720, 1024x768, 800x600,
                      640x480
                    EDID-Warnings: 1: parse_edid: unknown flag 2
                    API: EGL v: 1.5 hw: drv: amd radeonsi platforms: device: 0
                      drv: radeonsi device: 1 drv: swrast gbm: egl: 1.4 drv: kms_swrast
                      surfaceless: drv: radeonsi x11: drv: radeonsi inactive: wayland
                    API: OpenGL v: 4.6 vendor: amd mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.2
                      direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon Graphics (renoir LLVM
                      15.0.6 DRM 3.57 6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64) device-ID: 1002:164c
                      memory: 500 MiB unified: no
                  Audio:
                    Device-1: AMD Renoir Radeon High Definition Audio
                      vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 3
                      speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 link-max: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s
                      bus-ID: 03:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:1637 class-ID: 0403
                    Device-2: AMD ACP/ACP3X/ACP6x Audio Coprocessor
                      vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_rn_pci_acp3x v: kernel
                      alternate: snd_pci_acp3x, snd_pci_acp5x, snd_pci_acp6x,
                      snd_acp_pci, snd_rpl_pci_acp6x, snd_pci_ps, snd_sof_amd_renoir,
                      snd_sof_amd_rembrandt, snd_sof_amd_vangogh, snd_sof_amd_acp63
                      pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 link-max: gen: 4
                      speed: 16 GT/s bus-ID: 03:00.5 chip-ID: 1022:15e2 class-ID: 0480
                    Device-3: AMD Family 17h/19h HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
                      driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16
                      link-max: gen: 4 speed: 16 GT/s bus-ID: 03:00.6 chip-ID: 1022:15e3
                      class-ID: 0403
                    API: ALSA v: k6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64 status: kernel-api
                      with: apulse type: pulse-emulator tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer
                    Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.3 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse
                      status: active 2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa
                      type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin tools: pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
                  Network:
                    Device-1: Realtek vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: rtw89_8852ae
                      v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: f000
                      bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:a85a class-ID: 0280
                    IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
                    IP v4: <filter> scope: global broadcast: <filter>
                    IP v6: <filter> scope: link
                    Info: services: wpa_supplicant
                    WAN IP: <filter>
                  Bluetooth:
                    Device-1: Realtek Bluetooth Radio driver: btusb v: 0.8 type: USB
                      rev: 1.0 speed: 12 Mb/s lanes: 1 mode: 1.1 bus-ID: 1-4:3
                      chip-ID: 0bda:385a class-ID: e001 serial: <filter>
                    Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 1 state: down
                      bt-service: disabled rfk-block: hardware: no software: yes
                      address: <filter>
                    Info: acl-mtu: 1021:6 sco-mtu: 255:12
                      link-policy: rswitch hold sniff park link-mode: peripheral accept
                  Logical:
                    Message: No logical block device data found.
                  RAID:
                    Message: No RAID data found.
                  Drives:
                    Local Storage: total: 238.47 GiB used: 9.02 GiB (3.8%)
                    SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
                    ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:0 vendor: Toshiba
                      model: KBG40ZNV256G KIOXIA size: 238.47 GiB block-size:
                      physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD
                      serial: <filter> fw-rev: HP00AE00 temp: 26.9 C scheme: GPT
                    Message: No optical or floppy data found.
                  Partition:
                    ID-1: / raw-size: 47.85 GiB size: 46.8 GiB (97.80%)
                      used: 9.02 GiB (19.3%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:1
                      label: rootantiX23.1 uuid: d7b07fc0-6501-45fa-8de4-4669a6ebc35c
                    ID-2: /boot/efi raw-size: 1.23 GiB size: 1.23 GiB (99.80%)
                      used: 1000 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2 maj-min: 259:2
                      label: N/A uuid: 6EDC-B440
                  Swap:
                    Kernel: swappiness: 10 (default 60) cache-pressure: 50 (default 100)
                      zswap: yes compressor: lz4 max-pool: 20%
                    ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 7.81 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%)
                      priority: -2 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p6 maj-min: 259:6 label: N/A
                      uuid: d5ee9225-6bf8-4ea5-9299-547b7272c289
                  Unmounted:
                    ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1p3 maj-min: 259:3 size: 48.83 GiB fs: ext4
                      label: rootantiX23 uuid: 3268b76a-29b0-4d73-8d06-658fbd70d51b
                    ID-2: /dev/nvme0n1p4 maj-min: 259:4 size: 48.83 GiB fs: ext4
                      label: rootMX23 uuid: be9710bc-654b-4fc6-8401-fa3ff0d70b46
                    ID-3: /dev/nvme0n1p5 maj-min: 259:5 size: 48.83 GiB fs: ext4
                      label: rootantiX23 uuid: 1480170f-3bd2-4337-af59-015e667f24bc
                    ID-4: /dev/nvme0n1p7 maj-min: 259:7 size: 35.1 GiB fs: ext4
                      label: N/A uuid: acab5ff7-122e-4f43-95e7-e7949c655cda
                  USB:
                    Hub-1: 1-0:1 info: hi-speed hub with single TT ports: 4 rev: 2.0
                      speed: 480 Mb/s (57.2 MiB/s) lanes: 1 mode: 2.0 chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                      class-ID: 0900
                    Device-1: 1-3:2 info: Chicony HP TrueVision HD Camera type: video
                      driver: uvcvideo interfaces: 2 rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s (57.2 MiB/s)
                      lanes: 1 mode: 2.0 power: 500mA chip-ID: 04f2:b6f1 class-ID: 0e02
                      serial: <filter>
                    Device-2: 1-4:3 info: Realtek Bluetooth Radio type: bluetooth
                      driver: btusb interfaces: 2 rev: 1.0 speed: 12 Mb/s (1.4 MiB/s)
                      lanes: 1 mode: 1.1 power: 500mA chip-ID: 0bda:385a class-ID: e001
                      serial: <filter>
                    Hub-2: 2-0:1 info: super-speed hub ports: 2 rev: 3.1
                      speed: 10 Gb/s (1.16 GiB/s) lanes: 1 mode: 3.2 gen-2x1
                      chip-ID: 1d6b:0003 class-ID: 0900
                    Hub-3: 3-0:1 info: hi-speed hub with single TT ports: 4 rev: 2.0
                      speed: 480 Mb/s (57.2 MiB/s) lanes: 1 mode: 2.0 chip-ID: 1d6b:0002
                      class-ID: 0900
                    Device-1: 3-2:2 info: KYE Systems (Mouse Systems) Trackbar Emotion
                      type: mouse driver: hid-generic,usbhid interfaces: 1 rev: 1.0
                      speed: 1.5 Mb/s (183 KiB/s) lanes: 1 mode: 1.0 power: 100mA
                      chip-ID: 0458:0007 class-ID: 0301
                    Hub-4: 4-0:1 info: super-speed hub ports: 2 rev: 3.1
                      speed: 10 Gb/s (1.16 GiB/s) lanes: 1 mode: 3.2 gen-2x1
                      chip-ID: 1d6b:0003 class-ID: 0900
                  Sensors:
                    System Temperatures: cpu: 52.1 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 47.0 C
                    Fan Speeds (rpm): fan-1: 0 fan-2: 0
                  Repos:
                    Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 1666 libs: 773
                      tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,synaptic
                    Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
                      1: deb [signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/antix-archive-keyring.gpg] http://la.mxrepo.com/antix/bookworm bookworm main nonfree nosystemd
                    No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bookworm-backports.list
                    Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
                      1: deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                    Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
                      1: deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                      2: deb http://security.debian.org/ bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
                    Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/librewolf.list
                      1: deb [arch=amd64] http://deb.librewolf.net bookworm main
                    Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/liquorix.list
                      1: deb [signed-by=/etc/apt/keyrings/liquorix-keyring.gpg] http://liquorix.net/debian/ bookworm main
                  Processes:
                    CPU top: 5 of 337
                    1: cpu: 92.8% command: pinxi started-by: perl pid: 19958
                      mem: 36.8 MiB (0.5%)
                    2: cpu: 13.0% command: librewolf pid: 2910 mem: 525.9 MiB (7.2%)
                    3: cpu: 2.2% command: Xorg pid: 1942 mem: 121.7 MiB (1.6%)
                    4: cpu: 2.2% command: librewolf pid: 3017 mem: 198.1 MiB (2.7%)
                    5: cpu: 0.7% command: librewolf pid: 19571 mem: 149.9 MiB (2.0%)
                    Memory top: 5 of 337
                    1: mem: 525.9 MiB (7.2%) command: librewolf pid: 2910 cpu: 13.0%
                    2: mem: 198.1 MiB (2.7%) command: librewolf pid: 3017 cpu: 2.2%
                    3: mem: 154.7 MiB (2.1%) command: librewolf pid: 3067 cpu: 0.3%
                    4: mem: 149.9 MiB (2.0%) command: librewolf pid: 19571 cpu: 0.7%
                    5: mem: 121.7 MiB (1.6%) command: Xorg pid: 1942 cpu: 2.2%
                  Info:
                    Processes: 337 Power: uptime: 54m states: freeze,mem,disk
                      suspend: s2idle wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform avail: shutdown,
                      reboot, suspend, test_resume image: 2.81 GiB Init: runit v: N/A
                      runlevel: 2 tool: service
                    Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.15 running-in: roxterm
                      pinxi: 3.3.33-2

                  --
                  Brian Masinick

                  #132809
                  Member
                  stevesr0

                    Thanks, The Mas,

                    I was kind of kidding, but it is illuminating to think of a 12 cpu laptop as an ordinary consumer item.

                    #132815
                    Moderator
                    Brian Masinick

                      Thanks, The Mas,

                      I was kind of kidding, but it is illuminating to think of a 12 cpu laptop as an ordinary consumer item.

                      Yeah, these common every day laptops almost undoubtedly exceed large computers of the past – probably more in every category, with the possible exception of high speed bus input/output, since these are consumer devices.

                      --
                      Brian Masinick

                      #132824
                      Forum Admin
                      anticapitalista

                        @fungalnet was specifically referring to 66 not s6.
                        @eric of Obarun has done a great job with his 66 suite to make s6 more ‘obviously’ configurable.
                        @ProwlerGR (quite rightly) disputed my claim that s6 is harder to configure than other inits on this diversity iso, by showing their adapted gui runit-service-manager tool.

                        @eric – antiX allows for rootless login into X via startx as long as seatd is called with -g video.
                        sysVinit works, runit works, s6 works (with an edited file) but 66 doesn’t seem to.
                        This is on real hardware not in a virtual instance.

                        Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                        antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                        #132850
                        Moderator
                        Brian Masinick

                          I used the init-diversity setup today and encountered a much better experience than I have in previous days.

                          3 of the 4 init – sysVinit, runit, and s6-rc each start up very close to 8 seconds; it seemed like s6-rc may have “just beat” the 8 second level; I was using an Android Clock timer; I’d put my left hand on the clock timer start button and my right hand at the GRUB boot image I was set to boot, and did my best to press both at the same time; I repeated the test a few times.

                          As mentioned, s6-rc appeared to start slightly, just slightly, faster than the others. Memory utilization is similar at start; s6 does seem a bit better at “trimming” memory use if not used for a few minutes, but I need more test samples to verify this. I will say I tried sysVinit and though it’s reasonably efficient, I did not see the image vary much, if at all in size except if other processes were started or completed.

                          It was 66 that was the surprise! It took one-two seconds longer to start BUT it rewarded with lower sustained memory usage shortly after boot!

                          My previous recollection was that all of the images were a bit sluggish booting, starting, and operating; whatever HAD been taking place before has been resolved! All of them run fine now and 66, even if not STABLE at this stage, looks like a future winner!

                          All of this in just a few days of fixes and a couple of package updates; that’s it! So the prognosis for ALL FOUR of these init look VERY good to be packaged in an init-diversity setup and I am looking forward to working with all of them.

                          At the moment I do have one or two minor concerns; I either don’t have the right commands or I’m not using them properly.

                          When I switch to root and visit the /lib/init-diversity directory, there are two scripts, poweroff.sh and reboot.sh

                          They work for runit, s6-rc and 66; I was having issues with sysVinit, which shows up as either the traditional halt or reboot in the two scripts; I’ll explicitly try again a few times and make sure I’m not altering the environment in any way; hopefully the issue was somehow “operator error”!

                          I’m in 66 right now with no hint of issues anywhere! That’s good news too!

                          --
                          Brian Masinick

                          #132852
                          Member
                          calciumsodium

                            I am here visiting the forum with s6-66. Previously, I had the init-diversity system that I optimized for my personal use from a pre-build iso 20240201.

                            Now I start with my own personalized highly modified antiX23 runit system and build the init-diversity from script.

                            This is a snapshot of my s6-66 system built from script. I still see the separate dbus-daemon that @Eric had mentioned.

                            jakersfan@antix-s6-66:~
                            $ apt-cache policy s6-66*
                            s6-66-init:
                              Installed: 0.0.0.1experimental2
                              Candidate: 0.0.0.1experimental2
                              Version table:
                             *** 0.0.0.1experimental2 500
                                    500 http://deb-s6-rc-66-init-experimental.duckdns.org:8080 experimental-s6/antix-s6 amd64 Packages
                                    500 http://deb-s6-rc-66-init-experimental.duckdns.org:8080 experimental-s6/antix-s6 i386 Packages
                                    100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
                            s6-66-services:
                              Installed: 0.0.0.1experimental3
                              Candidate: 0.0.0.1experimental3
                              Version table:
                             *** 0.0.0.1experimental3 500
                                    500 http://deb-s6-rc-66-init-experimental.duckdns.org:8080 experimental-s6/antix-s6 amd64 Packages
                                    500 http://deb-s6-rc-66-init-experimental.duckdns.org:8080 experimental-s6/antix-s6 i386 Packages
                                    100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
                            jakersfan@antix-s6-66:~
                            $ start-t icewm
                                   26.25
                                   26.35
                            jakersfan@antix-s6-66:~
                            $ pstree
                            s6-svscan─┬─conky───6*[{conky}]
                                      ├─dbus-daemon
                                      ├─dbus-launch
                                      ├─devmon───udevil
                                      ├─redshift
                                      ├─rox
                                      ├─9*[s6-supervise───s6-log]
                                      ├─s6-supervise───66-shutdownd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───s6-fdholderd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───s6-ipcserverd
                                      ├─3*[s6-supervise───agetty]
                                      ├─s6-supervise───udevd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───dbus-daemon
                                      ├─s6-supervise───seatd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───slimski─┬─Xorg───{Xorg}
                                      │                        └─desktop-session───icewm-session───icewm
                                      ├─s6-supervise───connmand
                                      ├─s6-supervise───nmbd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───smbd─┬─cleanupd
                                      │                     └─smbd-notifyd
                                      ├─s6-supervise───bluetoothd
                                      ├─wpa_supplicant
                                      └─x-terminal-emul─┬─bash───pstree
                                                        └─links2
                            jakersfan@antix-s6-66:~
                            $ sudo ps_mem.py
                            [sudo] password for jakersfan: 
                             Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program
                            128.0 KiB +  27.5 KiB = 155.5 KiB	s6-ipcserverd
                            136.0 KiB +  24.5 KiB = 160.5 KiB	seatd
                            184.0 KiB +  33.5 KiB = 217.5 KiB	s6-svscan
                            260.0 KiB +  40.5 KiB = 300.5 KiB	66-shutdownd
                            316.0 KiB +  47.5 KiB = 363.5 KiB	s6-fdholderd
                            368.0 KiB + 132.5 KiB = 500.5 KiB	dbus-launch
                            360.0 KiB + 210.5 KiB = 570.5 KiB	icewm-session
                            356.0 KiB + 293.5 KiB = 649.5 KiB	udevil
                            460.0 KiB + 329.5 KiB = 789.5 KiB	agetty (3)
                            696.0 KiB + 407.5 KiB =   1.1 MiB	devmon
                            740.0 KiB + 394.0 KiB =   1.1 MiB	dbus-daemon (2)
                            812.0 KiB + 399.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	desktop-session
                            728.0 KiB + 496.5 KiB =   1.2 MiB	redshift
                              1.1 MiB + 252.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB	s6-log (9)
                              1.0 MiB + 854.0 KiB =   1.8 MiB	sudo (2)
                              1.8 MiB + 450.5 KiB =   2.2 MiB	bash
                              1.6 MiB + 861.5 KiB =   2.5 MiB	connmand
                              2.2 MiB + 363.5 KiB =   2.5 MiB	bluetoothd
                              2.0 MiB + 774.5 KiB =   2.7 MiB	conky
                              3.0 MiB + 445.5 KiB =   3.4 MiB	udevd
                              2.8 MiB + 690.5 KiB =   3.4 MiB	s6-supervise (23)
                              4.3 MiB +   1.6 MiB =   6.0 MiB	wpa_supplicant
                              2.5 MiB +   3.6 MiB =   6.1 MiB	nmbd
                              5.6 MiB +   2.3 MiB =   7.9 MiB	icewm
                              6.6 MiB +   1.5 MiB =   8.2 MiB	slimski
                              4.7 MiB +   8.8 MiB =  13.4 MiB	smbd (3)
                             12.1 MiB +   3.0 MiB =  15.2 MiB	links2
                             12.0 MiB +   5.9 MiB =  17.9 MiB	x-terminal-emul
                             22.8 MiB +   5.1 MiB =  27.9 MiB	rox
                             69.6 MiB +   1.7 MiB =  71.3 MiB	Xorg
                            ---------------------------------
                                                    202.0 MiB
                            =================================
                            jakersfan@antix-s6-66:~
                            $ 
                            #132856
                            Moderator
                            Brian Masinick
                              pstree;sudo ps_mem.py;pinxi -v4xxxopy71
                              s6-svscan─┬─at-spi-bus-laun─┬─dbus-daemon
                                        │                 └─3*[{at-spi-bus-laun}]
                                        ├─at-spi2-registr───2*[{at-spi2-registr}]
                                        ├─conky───4*[{conky}]
                                        ├─2*[dbus-daemon]
                                        ├─2*[dbus-launch]
                                        ├─devmon───udevil
                                        ├─gconfd-2
                                        ├─pipewire───2*[{pipewire}]
                                        ├─pipewire-pulse───2*[{pipewire-pulse}]
                                        ├─roxterm───bash───pstree
                                        ├─9*[s6-supervise───s6-log]
                                        ├─s6-supervise───66-shutdownd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───s6-fdholderd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───s6-ipcserverd
                                        ├─3*[s6-supervise───agetty]
                                        ├─s6-supervise───udevd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───dbus-daemon
                                        ├─s6-supervise───seatd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───slimski─┬─Xorg───8*[{Xorg}]
                                        │                        └─desktop-session───icewm-session───icewm
                                        ├─s6-supervise───connmand
                                        ├─s6-supervise───nmbd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───smbd─┬─cleanupd
                                        │                     └─smbd-notifyd
                                        ├─s6-supervise───bluetoothd
                                        ├─startup───volumeicon───3*[{volumeicon}]
                                        ├─2*[wireplumber───4*[{wireplumber}]]
                                        ├─wpa_supplicant
                                        └─zzzfm
                               Private  +   Shared  =  RAM used	Program
                              132.0 KiB +  22.5 KiB = 154.5 KiB	s6-ipcserverd
                              140.0 KiB +  22.5 KiB = 162.5 KiB	seatd
                              108.0 KiB +  79.5 KiB = 187.5 KiB	sh
                              120.0 KiB +  81.5 KiB = 201.5 KiB	dash
                              188.0 KiB +  20.5 KiB = 208.5 KiB	s6-svscan
                              256.0 KiB +  38.5 KiB = 294.5 KiB	66-shutdownd
                              320.0 KiB +  41.5 KiB = 361.5 KiB	s6-fdholderd
                              280.0 KiB + 188.5 KiB = 468.5 KiB	startup
                              348.0 KiB + 175.5 KiB = 523.5 KiB	udevil
                              376.0 KiB + 206.5 KiB = 582.5 KiB	icewm-session
                              484.0 KiB + 292.5 KiB = 776.5 KiB	agetty (3)
                              736.0 KiB + 207.0 KiB = 943.0 KiB	dbus-launch (2)
                              632.0 KiB + 331.5 KiB = 963.5 KiB	devmon
                              752.0 KiB + 318.5 KiB =   1.0 MiB	gconfd-2
                              804.0 KiB + 341.5 KiB =   1.1 MiB	desktop-session
                                1.1 MiB + 218.5 KiB =   1.4 MiB	s6-log (9)
                              972.0 KiB + 564.5 KiB =   1.5 MiB	at-spi-bus-launcher
                                1.1 MiB + 566.5 KiB =   1.6 MiB	at-spi2-registryd
                              992.0 KiB + 823.0 KiB =   1.8 MiB	sudo (2)
                                1.4 MiB + 574.0 KiB =   2.0 MiB	dbus-daemon (4)
                                1.5 MiB + 608.5 KiB =   2.1 MiB	pipewire-pulse
                                2.0 MiB + 391.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB	bluetoothd
                                2.1 MiB + 387.5 KiB =   2.4 MiB	bash
                                1.9 MiB + 619.5 KiB =   2.5 MiB	connmand
                                2.5 MiB + 435.5 KiB =   2.9 MiB	udevd
                                2.5 MiB + 600.5 KiB =   3.1 MiB	pipewire
                                2.8 MiB + 580.5 KiB =   3.3 MiB	s6-supervise (23)
                                2.6 MiB + 797.5 KiB =   3.4 MiB	conky
                                2.5 MiB +   1.9 MiB =   4.4 MiB	volumeicon
                                2.8 MiB +   2.0 MiB =   4.8 MiB	curl
                                2.6 MiB +   3.5 MiB =   6.1 MiB	nmbd
                                5.4 MiB +   1.3 MiB =   6.7 MiB	wpa_supplicant
                                4.2 MiB +   3.0 MiB =   7.3 MiB	wireplumber (2)
                                5.7 MiB +   2.3 MiB =   8.0 MiB	icewm
                                4.3 MiB +   8.7 MiB =  13.0 MiB	smbd (3)
                               12.3 MiB +   1.5 MiB =  13.8 MiB	slimski
                               12.5 MiB +   5.4 MiB =  18.0 MiB	roxterm
                               23.9 MiB +   4.2 MiB =  28.0 MiB	zzzfm
                              108.3 MiB +   1.5 MiB = 109.8 MiB	Xorg
                              ---------------------------------
                                                      258.1 MiB
                              =================================
                              System:
                                Host: antix-init-diversity Kernel: 6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64
                                  arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0 clocksource: tsc
                                Desktop: IceWM v: 3.4.5 dm: slimski v: 1.5.0
                                  Distro: antiX-23.1_diversity February 05 2024 base: Debian
                                  GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
                              Machine:
                                Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP Laptop 14-fq1xxx v: N/A
                                  serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10
                                  serial: <superuser required>
                                Mobo: HP model: 887C v: 59.11 serial: <superuser required>
                                  part-nu: 51N12UA#ABA uuid: <superuser required> UEFI: AMI v: F.18
                                  date: 11/26/2021
                              Battery:
                                ID-1: BAT0 charge: 40.6 Wh (99.8%) condition: 40.7/40.7 Wh (100.0%)
                                  volts: 12.9 min: 11.3 model: HP Primary type: Li-ion
                                  serial: SerialNumber status: not charging
                              CPU:
                                Info: 6-core model: AMD Ryzen 5 5500U with Radeon Graphics bits: 64
                                  type: MT MCP smt: enabled arch: Zen 2 rev: 1 cache: L1: 384 KiB
                                  L2: 3 MiB L3: 8 MiB
                                Speed (MHz): avg: 1465 high: 3170 min/max: 400/4056 cores: 1: 400
                                  2: 400 3: 400 4: 400 5: 3170 6: 400 7: 2071 8: 2062 9: 2068 10: 2070
                                  11: 2071 12: 2068 bogomips: 50300
                                Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a
                                  ssse3 svm
                              Graphics:
                                Device-1: AMD Lucienne vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: amdgpu
                                  v: kernel arch: GCN-5 pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 ports:
                                  active: eDP-1 empty: HDMI-A-1 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:164c
                                  class-ID: 0300 temp: 46.0 C
                                Device-2: Chicony HP TrueVision HD Camera driver: uvcvideo
                                  type: USB rev: 2.0 speed: 480 Mb/s lanes: 1 bus-ID: 1-3:2
                                  chip-ID: 04f2:b6f1 class-ID: 0e02 serial: 0001
                                Display: server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu
                                  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu
                                  resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
                                API: OpenGL v: 4.6 vendor: amd mesa v: 22.3.6 glx-v: 1.4 es-v: 3.2
                                  direct-render: yes renderer: AMD Radeon Graphics (renoir LLVM
                                  15.0.6 DRM 3.57 6.7.4-1-liquorix-amd64) device-ID: 1002:164c
                              Network:
                                Device-1: Realtek vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: rtw89_8852ae
                                  v: kernel pcie: speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: f000 bus-ID: 01:00.0
                                  chip-ID: 10ec:a85a class-ID: 0280
                                IF: wlan0 state: up mac: d8:80:83:b7:f8:bd
                              Drives:
                                Local Storage: total: 238.47 GiB used: 9.33 GiB (3.9%)
                                ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Toshiba model: KBG40ZNV256G KIOXIA
                                  size: 238.47 GiB speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 tech: SSD
                                  serial: 223PH15AQW82 fw-rev: HP00AE00 temp: 26.9 C scheme: GPT
                              Partition:
                                ID-1: / size: 47.76 GiB used: 9.33 GiB (19.5%) fs: ext4
                                  dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
                                ID-2: /sys/firmware/efi/efivars size: 128 KiB used: 34 KiB (26.6%)
                                  fs: efivarfs source: ERR-102
                              Unmounted:
                                ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1p1 size: 47.85 GiB fs: ext4
                                ID-2: /dev/nvme0n1p2 size: 1.23 GiB fs: vfat
                                ID-3: /dev/nvme0n1p4 size: 48.83 GiB fs: ext4
                                ID-4: /dev/nvme0n1p5 size: 48.83 GiB fs: ext4
                                ID-5: /dev/nvme0n1p6 size: 7.81 GiB fs: swap
                                ID-6: /dev/nvme0n1p7 size: 35.1 GiB fs: ext4
                              Info:
                                Memory: total: N/A available: 7.1 GiB used: 734.7 MiB (10.1%)
                                Processes: 347 Power: uptime: 1h 21m states: freeze,mem,disk
                                  suspend: s2idle wakeups: 0 hibernate: platform Init: s6 v: N/A
                                  default: 5
                                Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2002 Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 Shell: Bash
                                  v: 5.2.15 running-in: roxterm pinxi: 3.3.33-2

                              --
                              Brian Masinick

                              #132867
                              Moderator
                              Brian Masinick

                                I made a change to the poweroff.sh and reboot.sh scripts so that the sysVinit works for me; it should be usable for all, given that /sbin/shutdown is present in sysVinit:

                                cat /lib/init-diversity/poweroff.sh;  cat /lib/init-diversity/reboot.sh 
                                #!/bin/bash
                                if [ "$(id -u)" -gt 0 ]; then
                                	echo "You need to run as root or using sudo"
                                	exit 1
                                fi
                                sync &&  /sbin/shutdown -hP now &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/runit/runit-init 0 &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/s6-rc/poweroff &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/s6-66/poweroff &>/dev/null
                                #!/bin/bash
                                if [ "$(id -u)" -gt 0 ]; then
                                	echo "You need to run as root or using sudo"
                                	exit 1
                                fi
                                sync && /sbin/shutdown -r now &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/runit/runit-init 6 &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/s6-rc/reboot &>/dev/null | /usr/lib/s6-66/reboot &>/dev/null

                                --
                                Brian Masinick

                                #132868
                                Member
                                eric


                                  @eric
                                  – antiX allows for rootless login into X via startx as long as seatd is called with -g video.
                                  sysVinit works, runit works, s6 works (with an edited file) but 66 doesn’t seem to.
                                  This is on real hardware not in a virtual instance.

                                  Difficult to answer you without more information. Obarun also provide xorg-xxx-rootless package to start X with regular user without issue(AFAK). Can you give me the configuration used with s6 to be able to launch X as regular user?

                                  • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by eric.
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