antiX-23.2-full-runit isos for testing

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-23.2-full-runit isos for testing

  • This topic has 254 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated Jul 21-2:37 pm by Robin.
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  • #148449
    Member
    calciumsodium

      I don’t know why the last post will not let me edit it.

      The forum software did not like the format of the attachment.

      So I renamed the attachment to pc.txt and attached it here.

      @entropyagent, if you want to try it, rename the attachment and remove the .txt extension.

      That is, rename pc.txt to simply pc

      Then as root, replace the file: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/pc with the rename pc file.

      Hope this helps.

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by calciumsodium.
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      #148459
      Member
      Robin

        Have installed and tested the antix23-desktop-files testing package on live antiX 23.2 full runit testing 64bit and 32bit both, system was localised in German language (one of the languages which are 100% translated for this resource at transifex already). Installs (and uninstalls) without errors. The application submenus are sorted now, so e.g. Connectshares, Disconnectshares and the Setup Connectshares entries are no longer scattered all over the menus but sit one below the other, as expected. That’s a start.

        Todo: I propose moving some of the applications to their proper application category. This can be done easily for antiX without bothering the original application programmers and other distributions, which might follow another design-, sorting- and wording concept: Everybody (every program, app, script or tool writer) is doing their own thing, so the result in our menu is chaotic, at least in the translations to other languages than English.

        I’d like to move the following entries in the processed desktop files:
        solaar from utilities to settings (This starts the setup for wireless mouse receiver)
        pipewire toggle from utilities to settings (This also is a basic setup rather than a utility)
        xcompmgr from from utilities to settings (Also this one is a setup, not a utility)
        firejail setup from from utilities to settings (Again, this is a setup question)
        antix-pdm from from utilities to settings (Also not a utility, but for mouse and touchpad setup)

        geany from development to utilities (since for average users this is simply a text editor)
        vim from development to utilities (since for average users this is simply a text editor)
        meld from development to utilities (since for average users this is a text comparison tool)
        virtualbox from system to utilities, since this is not
        antix-trashbin from system to utilities.
        app-select from system to utilities. since this clearly is a utility rather than something system related

        remove duplicate frescobaldi entry from utilities, it is in multimedia section already. Doesn’t make any sense in the utilities.
        remove duplicate vmpk entry from education, it is already in multimedia section also.

        And finally I’d propose to split up the complete multimedia section in either sub categories for “creativity and production” and “media consumption”, or split this category up into multimedia-playback, multimedia-creation. The .desktop files could easily be modified this way, but antiX main menu would need to respect the additional category when present in a file. The reason for this request is: The current multimedia menu in antiX is pure chaos. There is Soundcard-selection next to video playback from youtube next to musical instruments like drumsticks (hydrogen) and piano (vmpk), an audio patchbay next to ytfzf. That’s ridiculous and makes working with it hard and unergonomic unnecessarily. Moreover this multimedia submenu suffers from way too much stuff put in the very category by all the program authors, so on smaller screens it is hard to use.

        My above listing is probably not complete by now, but what do you generally think about applying changes of this kind to our .desktop files provided by the antix23-desktop-files package, so we could finally get a better sorted application menu in antiX 23.2 ?

        Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

        #148498
        Member
        marcelocripe

          Hello, Robin.

          I managed to do some testing with your newest package “antix23-desktop-files_23.2-1_all.deb”, the test results and my comments are in the text file “antix23-desktop-files_23.2- package test 1_all.deb.txt” along with some images that I used to serve as an example of what Robin wrote in this part of his text:

          All the different authors and sources will never follow the same wording-scheme and design concept, so there is no option other than to have our own translations present if the main menu shouldn’t look chaotic, with e.g. the Email program Claws at top of the menu and another Email Program Thunderbird at the bottom.

          Thank you very much Robin, for creating a solution to the problem of loss of menu translations that occur when updating or installing programs in antiX.

          https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/antix-23-desktop-files-new-resource-for-translation-present-on-tranisfex/page/4/#post-148496

          – – – – –

          Olá, Robin.

          Eu consegui fazer alguns testes com o seu mais novo pacote “antix23-desktop-files_23.2-1_all.deb”, os resultados dos testes e os meus comentários estão no arquivo de texto “Teste do pacote antix23-desktop-files_23.2-1_all.deb.txt” junto com algumas imagens que utilizei para servirem de exemplo do que o Robin escreveu nesta parte do seu texto:

          All the different authors and sources will never follow the same wording-scheme and design concept, so there is no option other than to have our own translations present if the main menu shouldn’t look chaotic, with e.g. the Email program Claws at top of the menu and another Email Program Thunderbird at the bottom.

          Muito obrigado Robin, por criar uma solução ao problema da perda das traduções dos menus que ocorrem nas atualizações ou nas instalações dos programas no antiX.

          https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/antix-23-desktop-files-new-resource-for-translation-present-on-tranisfex/page/4/#post-148496

          #148587
          Member
          PPC

            I’ve retested antiX 23.2, after installing Robin’s .desktop localization package and I can (almost recommend it for inclusion in the final antiX 23.2 version – it includes a tiny problem- it added Audacity, that I don’t have installed, to the menu)
            I’ve followed Marcelo’s idea and added, in pt-pt, for all apps that don’t have sufficiently specific names, a “- very short description”, ex: “LibreOffice Writer – Word Processor”, “Firefox – Web Browser”, etc. Doing that even helped me open some apps that I’ve run for years and forgot what they do.

            I noticed, that after updating the system, Control Centre includes, in the “Hardware” section both entries the old Mouse manager GUI and the most recent GUI too (please note that, as far as I could see, no localization for the new GUI is provided, and that can be confusing for non English speaking users).

            As far as I tested, this version of antiX, after updating it, is otherwise “perfect”. I’m aware some stuff in ZzzFM and the script that mounts Android devices require changing, but my mind is not on a “scripting mood” yet.

            Nitpicking – something that has bugged me for a very long time and I’m not sure I ever reported: the “Other Desktops” GUI includes text that can be missleading- the first phrase “You window manager is not..supported…” may be wrong, since it always appears, even when launching the script from Icew, jwm and fluxbox (it’s hardcoded) – also, that script is not localized (not at least in PT-pt) and displays the generic YAD icon…- I guess that, when I start bash scripting again, I’ll try to take a stab at it and adapt that code, it should be easy enough…

            P.

            #148651
            Member
            Robin

              Here the new antix23-desktop-files package tailored for antiX 23.2 for testing.

              This time another two new languages, Finnish and Catalan, are ready with 100%, so you can check out these also.

              Download, version 23.2-2 : https://drive.proton.me/urls/E0QK5K13MM#RMUJtlhRVbzV

              This package can simply be installed as an update to the former 23.2-1 package, no need to purge the old one beforehand.

              Make sure the checksum matches after file transfer to your PC.

              $ shasum -c antix23-desktop-files_23.2-2_all.deb.sha512.sum
              antix23-desktop-files_23.2-2_all.deb: OK

              Result must read “OK”. Otherwise redownload. Then you can install by e.g.

              $ sudo apt-get install ./antix23-desktop-files_23.2-2_all.deb

              This will change the antiX main menu Programs submenu. Entries in translated languages are sorted logically, if translators took care of this. Examples I know to have a clean sorting structure in the Menus already are Brasilian Portuguese and German.

              You’ll notice there has been done some cleanup and sorting in the submenus also, it doesn’t make any sense to have one packaging tool in system, the other one in settings and a third one in utilities. Also all the setup and configuration tools for networking stuff aren’t really something you’d expect in between internet browsers, email clients and file transfer programs. So they have been moved to the settings section alltogether. We can discuss whether all the network setup stuff should live in the system folder or whether it is fine in the settings section. Both would be logical, so I’m undecided what to prefer.

              And then, let’s talk about the antiX submenu in the programs submenu. What is this submenu meant for? It contains mostly duplicates of entries which belong thematically to other sections. But they are there, since they are antiX inhouse tools, so I presume this is meant as a kind of an antiX showcase? This doesn’t make much sense to me, my suggestion would be to clean up this very section by removing all programs from it which are already in other categories. Not sure whether then something will stay at all in this category. So, please think about this and let’s discuss how to proceed. The core point is: Do you want to have a showcase like that in the menu, and then, what should be inside it.

              Another point I was undecided about was whether the Audio settings tools like easyeffects, alsamixer alsamixer-equaliser, pavucontrol should live inside the entertainment-media category or whether it is enough already to have them in the settings sub menu. In this current package they are in both places. But what do you think?

              Please note, this second testing package for antiX 23.2 was still built with the current antiX desktop translation script version, the improvements by abc-nix have still not been applied.

              Known issue: As confirmed by @PPC, some few programs are not properly excluded by desktop-menu –write-out-global main menu refresh currently, when the .desktop file is present for them, but the program itself isn’t installed. For most programs this mechanism works fine, and the entries don’t show up even when the .desktop files are there already. Hopefully this can be fixed by @Dave, or maybe the workaround outlined by @abc-nix can be crafted to take care for later user-installed program-packages as well, e.g. by an additional apt-hook looking for existing antiX specific .desktop files on each package install.

              Doing that even helped me open some apps that I’ve run for years and forgot what they do

              Precisely that is the problem this antix23-desktop-files package is going to address. In the current package the improved wording is only for translations, the English users still get the original strings provided by all the different program authors and maintainers. But we can even use the English “translations” at transifex to provide the same level of improvement for English installs, so these can also profit from the clean antiX specific menu structure and improved usability of antiX for average users.

              As said, if somebody dislikes this ergonomic menu style and wants to have back the former inconsistent structure and wording in the menus, resulting from the multiple sources maintained by and designed for multiple linux projects, all of them following their own design and wording policies, it is enough to uninstall this package. We can provide even a toggle in antiX control centre to switch between these flavours, by uninstalling and reinstalling it by means of scripting.

              Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

              #148652
              Member
              Robin

                Images say more than a thousand words. Here some previews. Sorting still not completed, but you can see already the improvement when looking e.g. at the accessibility menu. You know now immediately where to click when you need a screen magnifier, or which one is the virtual keyboard, without having to google first for the program names. In the utilities menu you’ll find grouped together everything what is needed for file and folder management, file and folder search, file and folder comparison and also for file editing. Also you’ll find all three text editors grouped one below the other therein. In the section Internet you’ll find all Internetbrowsers grouped together, also the Email-programs one below the other, without distracting setup tools for mobile networking, connection configuration or network testing stuff in between.

                You’ll notice the settings group is pretty big now, but this could be helped. We could remove from the settings menu all the setup tools, which are present in antiX control centre already.

                Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                #148672
                Member
                Xunzi_23

                  Hi Robin,
                  Menu clean up, Nice work, installed on sid for now,

                  Many of the callouts of perceived bloat are surely due the somewhat overloaded,
                  and often somewhat confusing menus.

                  Personaly I think what is in the control center need not be in the menus, that would
                  also help to clean up the antiX menu.

                  Settings whether for audio as highlighted or other, settings menu is the logical place.

                  Package installers are system tools, I have moved synaptic from settings menu a lot of times,
                  If the system tools from antiX menu are moved and all double menu entrys eliminated the
                  end result will be cleaner looking and ergonomy much improved.

                  Caveat, should there be any failings in control center tools full menu entrys may be missed.

                  Sound failing today, assume coincidental, there were a plethora of updated packages from debian.
                  The setting tools in control center failed to work. That may resolve over next few days, typical
                  sid. I have sound working fine again with alsa so no hurry :-)

                  #148749
                  Member
                  marcelocripe

                    And here are some eye candy for me with all the menus translated into my language Brazilian Portuguese.

                    – – – – –

                    E aqui estão alguns colírios para os meus olhos com todos os menus traduzidos para o meu idioma Português do Brasil.

                    #148772
                    Member
                    marcelocripe

                      And then, let’s talk about the antiX submenu in the programs submenu. What is this submenu meant for? It contains mostly duplicates of entries which belong thematically to other sections. But they are there, since they are antiX inhouse tools, so I presume this is meant as a kind of an antiX showcase? This doesn’t make much sense to me, my suggestion would be to clean up this very section by removing all programs from it which are already in other categories. Not sure whether then something will stay at all in this category. So, please think about this and let’s discuss how to proceed. The core point is: Do you want to have a showcase like that in the menu, and then, what should be inside it.

                      I really like the idea of ​​redistributing the menus that are in the “antiX” category.

                      For example: the menus “icewm-manager-gui.desktop”, “icewm-remember-settings.desktop”, “login-config-antix.desktop”, “add-desktop.desktop”, “remove-desktop.desktop” and other menus would go into the “Settings” category. Whereas, “persist-config.desktop”, “persist_save.desktop”, “persist_setup.desktop” would go under the “System” category? or should they remain in the “antiX” category? Would it be necessary to maintain the “antiX” category?

                      In Robin’s proposal, now I have the “cli-aptiX.desktop” and “synaptic.desktop” menus one below the other, in addition to being in the same category as “packageinstaller.desktop” and “deb-installer.desktop” , now all program installation or uninstallation tools are much easier to find.

                      What do antiX administrators think of this important proposal made by Robin regarding the reorganization of the menus?

                      What do antiX administrators think about the possibility of the “antix23-desktop-files” package being used in the antiX full ISO image?

                      – – – – –

                      And then, let’s talk about the antiX submenu in the programs submenu. What is this submenu meant for? It contains mostly duplicates of entries which belong thematically to other sections. But they are there, since they are antiX inhouse tools, so I presume this is meant as a kind of an antiX showcase? This doesn’t make much sense to me, my suggestion would be to clean up this very section by removing all programs from it which are already in other categories. Not sure whether then something will stay at all in this category. So, please think about this and let’s discuss how to proceed. The core point is: Do you want to have a showcase like that in the menu, and then, what should be inside it.

                      Eu gosto muito da ideia de redistribuir os menus que estão na categoria “antiX”.

                      Por exemplo: os menus “icewm-manager-gui.desktop”, “icewm-remember-settings.desktop”, “login-config-antix.desktop”, “add-desktop.desktop”, “remove-desktop.desktop” e outros menus iriam para a categoria “Settings”. Enquanto que, “persist-config.desktop”, “persist_save.desktop”, “persist_setup.desktop” iriam para a categoria “System”? ou deveriam permanecer na categoria “antiX”? Seria necessário manter a categoria “antiX”?

                      Na proposta do Robin, agora eu tenho os menus “cli-aptiX.desktop” e o “synaptic.desktop” um embaixo do outro, além de estarem na mesma categoria do “packageinstaller.desktop” e do “deb-installer.desktop”, agora todas as ferramentas de instalação ou desinstalação de programas são muito mais fáceis de serem encontradas.

                      O que os administradores do antiX pensam desta importante proposta que foi feita pelo Robin sobre a reorganização dos menus?

                      O que os administradores do antiX pensam sobre a possibilidade do pacote “antix23-desktop-files” ser utilizado na imagem ISO full do antiX?

                      #148822
                      Member
                      Robin

                        Another issue spotted in the 23.2 full runit testing ISO, 32 bit.

                        There is neither pipewire nor wireplumber installed. So on contrary to antiX 23.1 it is not possible to activate it if your 32 bit hardware happens to work fine with it. Also toggle-pipewire and equaliser-toggle are missing, so when starting antiX Acoustic Colours from the menu the user is sent to nirvana. It reads: Please start pipewire first from antiX Control Centre. But there is no button in 23.2 to do so.

                        @anticapitalista: The idea was to have the pipewire stuff preinstalled, but deactivated in 32 bit, if I recollect properly. This was perfectly fine set up in antiX 23.1, so could this please be restored in 23.2 again?

                        Setting up this stuff properly later on seems to be pretty difficult for users, I have not managed it to make it work by just installing pipewire and wireplumber package. Not sure what else could be missing, so better have all the stuff installed and set up properly, just deactivated, as before.

                        Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                        #148823
                        Forum Admin
                        anticapitalista

                          If pipewire works so poorly on 32 bit (as documented by many antiX users), why have it installed at all?
                          It seems to me that 32 bit iso users should not use pipewire and stick with alsa instead

                          Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                          antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                          #148829
                          Member
                          ile

                            Hello Robin
                            Menu-German has name, Parenthesi generic name? The parentheses in a fluxbox rootmenu will kill the command entry; Name(paren) do not work in fluxbox menu. Paren are not used in the pt_br screenshots.
                            whether generic or comment, it is the parentheses will ruin fluxbox menu entry.

                            #148831
                            Forum Admin
                            rokytnji

                              https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/what-are-you-here-with-today/page/236/#post-147343 and
                              https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/what-are-you-here-with-today/page/238/#post-148354

                              5.0 MiB + 1.1 MiB = 6.0 MiB pipewire

                              There is neither pipewire nor wireplumber installed.

                              Made me check. I don’t remember installing for sound because sound worked while in live before install.

                              Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
                              I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
                              Motorcycle racing is rocket science.

                              Linux Registered User # 475019
                              How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

                              #148832
                              Member
                              ile

                                hello rokytnji
                                You also showed 32bit 23.2 on 12inch classmate pc. “post#147343, page 236.
                                Audio: API: ALSA v: k5.10.216-antix.1-486-smp status: kernel-api with: apulse type: pulse-emulator tools: alsactl,alsamixer,amixer”

                                #148833
                                Member
                                Robin

                                  Kernel: 6.1.60-antix.1-amd64-smp arch: x86_64 bits: 64

                                  @rokytnji Your link refers to 64 bit. Please recheck on 32 bit.

                                  If pipewire works so poorly on 32 bit (as documented by many antiX users), why have it installed at all?
                                  It seems to me that 32 bit iso users should not use pipewire and stick with alsa instead

                                  @anticapitalista Actually it works pretty good meanwhile also on 32 bit in antiX 23.1. Obviously they are working on this for 32 bit still constantly. Please remember, it worked as bad on 64 bit when antiX integrated it, so I don’t see a reason to remove it for 32 bit very soon. Only if people can give the pipewire devs feedback from 32 bit systems they can further improve it on this architecture. Moreover whether it performs or not is a question of the hardware. Currently I have no means to test it on a semi-professional soundcard with an default accelerator chip on a 32 bit system. The issues with high CPU load I had reported can easily be merely come from the cheap consumer DAC hardware on the mainboard of that very notebook. And for sure, we will hardly get reports from 32 bit systems on which it works fine, since then there is no reason for the user to complain here or report a bug, so he will never turn up here… From that we should not derive that it generally doesn’t work on 32 bit.

                                  But yes, on 32 bit systems it should be still deactivated by default, activatable by clicking the toggle in control centre easily, as it was in 23.1. This may even change in future, possibly to have it activated by default if the performance issues could be resolved by the devs. There is reason to presume they can do it, since there are jack and ardour devs involved for the audio part of pipewire, and both programs do work perfectly fine on 32 bit without any performance issues.

                                  Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

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