antiX-23 – based on Debian 12 Bookworm – ideas

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX-23 – based on Debian 12 Bookworm – ideas

  • This topic has 83 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated Dec 5-3:35 am by techore.
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  • #93839
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    calciumsodium
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    Also, I forgot to mention that the extra kernel modules in antiX22, exfat and rtl8821ce, also had trouble building when I installed the 6.0 kernel. Sorry to mention this, but hopefully this information will help you build antiX23 easier.

    #93850
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    PPC
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    I forgot about this suggestion:
    Why not have the routine that updates the menu also check in other folders (use case: make available in the menu .desktop files from installed flatpaks- I can check what folder that is, if there’s any interest on this suggestion).
    Once again, it costs 0 system resources, but makes life a little simpler for users that want/need to use software that is available under that format, without requiring any extra package to be installed, just a line of script or so…

    P.

    #93855
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    Brian Masinick
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    I forgot about this suggestion:
    Why not have the routine that updates the menu also check in other folders (use case: make available in the menu .desktop files from installed flatpaks- I can check what folder that is, if there’s any interest on this suggestion).
    Once again, it costs 0 system resources, but makes life a little simpler for users that want/need to use software that is available under that format, without requiring any extra package to be installed, just a line of script or so…

    P.

    I like this one, especially if the routine only runs either periodically or specifically on demand. One additional consideration would be to have this, and possibly other background cleanup usability routines that run using either the daily, weekly, or monthly cron routines. In that case, we can even have a few routines, whether they have overhead or not, run at times when the system is generally NOT in interactive use.

    Brian Masinick

    #93861
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    Brian Masinick
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    Back on the previous (page 4) of these suggestions, @PPC: had an extensive list of things complementing antiX, but also pleading for the ability to offer simple tools for the new user.

    One potential solution to some (maybe all), of this would be to provide an optional, but readily available tool that could be optionally performed, either at installation time or at any user initiated time to add additional navigational helps and tools similar to the ideas suggested by @PPC:

    An additional suggestion and recommendation is to provide an additional, easy to run tool to remove any or all of the suggestions and additions and return antiX to the “standard” form, taking into account which of the four [Net, Core, Base, Full] implementations are in use. In this way, IF the additions consume too many resources for the system being used or if the “later educated” user wants to experience the leanest antiX user experience, that would be possible.

    Again, just some ideas that *could* be optional add-ons (or removals).

    Brian Masinick

    #93863
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    Rantanplan
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    Bonjour @marcelocripe,

    je vous réponds en français et vous laisse le soin de traduire dans votre belle langue brésilienne.
    Car, comme vous, je ne sais pas écrire, ni parler l’anglais qui prend trop (beaucoup trop) de place dans le monde, de mon point de vue.

    Je vous remercie pour votre réponse qui vous ressemble : respectueuse, aimable, intelligente.

    Lorsque vous écrivez :

    Eu peço que você nunca se esqueça que várias vezes as traduções automáticas podem mudar o sentido original do texto que eu escrevei e podem causar mal estar ou mal entendido.

    Vous avez tout à fait raison.
    Je vous dois des excuses car j’aurai dû traduire votre texte original.

    Eu peço que você aceite as minhas humildes desculpas caso a tradução automática tenha causado qualquer mal entendido.

    Vous n’êtes pas responsable de la traduction automatique, et moi non plus d’ailleurs.
    Vous n’avez pas à vous excuser des approximations des traducteurs automatiques.

    Lorsque j’ai écrit :

    Je pense qu’on peut exprimer sa pensée à condition de ne blesser ni manquer de respect à qui que ce soit.

    J’aurai dû formuler de cette façon :

    Je pense que je peux exprimer ma pensée à condition de ne blesser ni manquer de respect à qui que ce soit.

    J’essaye de le faire de mon mieux, mais je n’y parviens peut-être pas toujours.

    As suas contribuições SÃO SEMPRE muito bem-vindas…

    C’est très aimable et gentil de votre part. Cependant, je reconnais que je n’apporte pas grand chose à cette communauté en dehors d’un bavardage inutile. Mais, je prends du plaisir à lire ce qu’elle produit.

    Enfin, Marcello, je lis beaucoup de vos posts et j’ai appris à vous connaître.
    Je sais que vous êtes une personne intelligente, respectueuse des autres personnes, aimable.
    Comme anticapitalista, et d’autres, vous avez une philosophie que vous mettez en pratique admirablement.
    Je pense beaucoup de bien de vous (et aussi du papa d’antiX, de Brian, de PPC, de oops, etc.).

    Amitiés sincères.

    Vive antiX !
    Vive le Groland !

    #93864
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    Rantanplan
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    Bonjour @ModdIt,

    L’anglais n’est pas ma langue natale, j’utilise un traducteur automatique avec les aléas que cela comporte.

    Je vous respecte, sincèrement.
    À cet égard, je ne vous juge pas, ni ne vous réduit à un seul mot.
    S’il vous plait, ne me jugez pas comme vous l’avez fait :

    … reviewers …

    D’autre part, vous écrivez :

    …You would probably call my setups bloated,…

    S’il vous plaît, n’écrivez pas à ma place : vous ne connaissez pas mes pensées.

    Enfin, je vous informe que je ne contribuerai plus sur le forum principal, car je n’y apporte pas grand chose.
    Je me contenterai du plaisir d’y lire les sujets qui m’intéressent. Et soyez rassuré, vous n’êtes pas la cause de cette décision.
    Je me cantonerai à la “French section”, peu active.

    Amitiés respectueuses.

    =====================english translation=======================
    Hello @ModdIt,

    English is not my native language, I use an automatic translator with the hazards that this entails.

    I respect you, sincerely.
    In this regard, I am not judging you, nor am I reducing you to a single word.
    Please don’t judge me as you did:

    … reviewers …

    On the other hand, you write:

    …You would probably call my setups bloated,…

    Please don’t write in my place: you don’t know my thoughts.

    Finally, I would like to inform you that I will no longer contribute to the main forum, as I don’t bring much to it.
    I will be content with the pleasure of reading the subjects that interest me. And rest assured, you are not the cause of this decision.
    I will confine myself to the “French section”, which is not very active.

    Respectful regards.

    Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    Vive antiX !
    Vive le Groland !

    #93868
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    olsztyn
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    I agree with this; “I really liked the “lean and mean” minimalist approach” – I always have and I always will too.

    I am most certainly in this camp. I fully concur with such principles of antiX. In my opinion antiX should remain true to this strategy anticapitalista has been following so far.
    – Principal infrastructure of antiX should advance as new technologies become available, such as advancement of Debian and Linux kernel to new versions, continuing excellent support of both old and new hardware.
    – Software and processes to be streamlined so the entire antiX edition will be uniform, consistent and easy to use, but still a well rounded unity rather than a hodge-podge of modifications and bloat piled up on top of such core system.

    If anticapitalista continues the strategy adopted so far – lean and mean antiX – then we should be in good hands…

    Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
    https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

    #93881
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    PPC
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    I do not intend to start a “flaming war” about the pros and cons of the 2 default GUI File Managers that antix includes, but I got curious and decided to perform a small test:

    My system (without desktop icons) on idle, with OOo quick start, and rox-term with 2 tabs (one to run “free -m”, one to run the file manager):
    RAM used: 221/220
    RAM free: 493/494

    Running rox-filer:
    RAM used: 226
    RAM free: 479

    Running zzzfm:
    RAM used: 232
    RAM free: 448

    Strange results, because the “free RAM” values does not seem to make sense but, the “used RAM” values show that zzzfm uses about 5mb of RAM than rox-filler, dispite the huge difference in “free RAM”- I won’t even pretend I know what that means, but I always go with the “used RAM” values. So, rox uses about 5mb of RAM and zzz about 11mb of RAM- more than double that value, yet… still only 6mb of difference.

    Yes, 6mb is a sizeble chunck of RAM, if you are in a 128MB device, but almost trivial if you have 1Gb or more (I’m betting most of the still working computers have at least 1Gb of RAM, some 0.5Gb and a tiny percentage less than that- so 6mb is about 10% of all available RAM… hum

    In my case, with less than 1Gb of RAM, I always run with zzzfm (but no desktop icons).
    I’ll just leave this info here, for anticapitalistas consideration.

    @Brian Masinick – my proposal about the menu updater – yes, as far as I know, that script only runs when you start it directly (ex: clicking the “Update menu” icon, with elevated previleges) or after using apt to install/remove anything…

    @anticapitalista – I forgot about this: please fix the “update menu” entry- that seems to require “gksu” to display a GUI to enter the needed password to run the script?

    P.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by PPC.
    #93888
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    Robin
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    When you ask for suggestions, you will get responses from those that want changes. You wont hear from those that think antiX is close to perfection and no changes are needed.

    +1 Yes, this is my impression also. Really, I don’t consider much needs to get changed at all. It works perfectly as is, and also allows adding freely any kind of additional software and configuration. So I’ll add some remarks on what I’ve read in this thread.

    I know this is a big “no no” but I also suggest simply including, if ISO space allows, in the full version, Pulseaudio- off by default, but with a menu entry to toogle it on- it solves some 90% of audio problems on antiX – if included, a text about it in the installer, about it being a possible way to solve audio problems on some apps would be advisable.

    Pulseaudio creates 100% audio problems the same time on other machines, which are not that easily solved anymore as by simply installing it if needed.

    Please, by any means: Don’t preinstall this. Don’t include pulseaudio in the ISOs, even not in “off” state.

    The reasons:

    1.) On many machines pulseaudio stalls system to constant 100% CPU load, immediately when loaded as daemon, rendering them nonfunctional. While I can have even jack installed (on plain alsa) and running fine in antiX 22 without noticeably additional CPU load, pulseaudio simply messes up everything.

    2.) Installed pulseaudio breaks running of sound applications on pure alsa completely. Most programs are written this way nowadays to expect pulse running when they see it is or was installed, and simply refuse to work on plain alsa then (and only then, while working properly when they don’t see a trace of it present). Some of them can get convinced manually, e.g. MPV, by calling it explicitly with its option –audio-device=alsa on console always, but that doesn’t help when opening a file with it from within a file manager. If there is a glimpse of pulseaudio only, even when not running (off), it will default to it and try to start or access the daemon, just like most other recent programs. So single option is not to have pulseaudio installed at all, if it can’t run on your hardware.

    All this would be not that bad, if you could get rid easily of pulseaudio. Unfortunately this is not the case. Once installed, you won’t be able to get back to a working plain alsa system at all:

    3.) Pulseaudio nests itself in dozens of places in system, and even when uninstalling, it will leave back a mess in all these configs it has changed on installation and not set back on uninstalling. I was not able to restore any system to make audio work again properly after pulseaudio was installed for testing purpose only once, even when tracing down and removing manually most of its residues it adds to other system components, it was a pretty complex procedure including removal of files pulseaudio had left behind from /lib/udev/rules.d/, /etc/alsa/conf.d/ and invoking sudo udevadm trigger -ssound before being able to reset the sound back to hda_intel using antiX control center, but no complete success in making plain alsa functional again after pulseaudio removal.

    You simply can’t get rid of pulseaudio anymore, once installed, and no audio works anymore as long it is installed but not activated, and that’s why it shouldn’t be installed by default in any antiX ISO. It’s simply a no-go due to its behaviour, while it is easily apt-installed when really needed.

    Better background images, please, some really hurt my eyes, standard here is still Metro..

    +1 Same here, still on metro most time, while the blue sky with overhead power lines from antiX 21 I really like also, it is a fine balance act between true photo and strictly geometrical graphic.

    Use in antiX 23 the wallpapers from previous antiX editions, from the first to the 22nd edition

    All the designs of old antiX versions could live in an installable package e.g. “historical-antiX-artwork” or whatever, in order not to fill up space in the ISOs, but allowing to keep a specific design after system upgrade, if somebody prefers this for some reason.

    add a “Trash can” to zzzfm

    When actually adding a trashcan, please make sure it doesn’t render antiX Live system unusable without huge amount of RAM installed and huge USB devices, if all this litter needs to get kept on USB or in RAM. You might easily ran out of storage or RAM this way, when not constantly emptying this thing then. So the default should stick to have no litterbox, but no objections against an option to easily activate such a thing, e.g. by a button somewhere in antiX control Center.

    The ones in antiX-contribs include a huge number of languages that have only been machine-translated.
    They have not been checked (unfortunately).

    We are working hard on checking all of them, even in languages we don’t understand or speak, to make sure they are at least understandable. This can be achieved by letting translate back a string using a different translation service provider as used for the original translation and modifying the input string until it comes back translated to the original meaning. But this process takes time. We could need some more helping hands…
    Moreover: Yes, people of these other languages will see this way there is a complete antiX in their own language, even when not perfectly translated, but they will understand they simply need to improve its translation.
    People coming from windows world are not used to the fact they easily can contribute to translations themselves and that they can start a translation to their language from scratch. So I believe it is way better to give them an imperfect automatic translation, checked as best we can, than no translation at all to their languages.

    Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

    #93892
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    olsztyn
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    3.) Pulseaudio nests itself in dozens of places in system, and even when uninstalling, it will leave back a mess in all these configs it has changed on installation and not set back on uninstalling.

    Thank you Robin for all your comments. Particularly that you are an expert in sound technology. Knowing this sound subsystem inside makes these comments particularly meaningful.
    Sounds like this pulseaudio subsystem is pretty badly designed and needs to be completely re-architected or replaced with a better one. Hopefully pipewire will become mature enough by the time of official release. I am just under impression of a successful installation and testing performed by @stevesr0…
    I concur that puseaudio should not be installed by default in antiX, considering havoc it creates and not allowing to clean removal.
    I also agree with other points of your assessment. Particularly the concept of Trashcan should not be permanently become a part of antiX proper. Perhaps at the most could be some optional installable?
    Greatly appreciate your insight. Thanks and Regards…

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by olsztyn.

    Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
    https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

    #93918
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    blur13
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    I’ve also noticed this with pulseaudio. I installed it because a particular application needed it, but once installed it wont go away.

    #93930
    Member
    PPC
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    On my suggestion to include pulseaudio out of the box – I bow to Robin’s expertise- so please disregard that suggestion– it’s easily available in Package Installer, for folks that need it to have sound in Firefox/Chromium based browsers/Some games/Video conferencing apps/atc…

    I find it strange that pulseaudio is almost the standard in most Linux distros – I always assumed it did not come out of the box in antix just to save resources. I’ve used it in 4 computers, to have sound on Chromium based browsers/games and it never failed me. In one particular laptop I even mentioned it’s almost magical- no sound at all, run pulseaudio, suddendly the sound works. But hey, what works for me, and in the computers I use (and for people I advise) does not necessarly work across all computers.
    And I never tried uninstalling pulseaudio- in all my computers, if I’m not running it, I can use alsa without any problem.
    I had only one sound problem in recent years- for no reason at all volume as set to 0 and I did not notice that happened. It may, or may not have been pulseaudio related.

    Edit:
    On having a “trash can” in zzzfm– That’s why I love the forum: I never even though about having a “trah can” on a live usb stick. In every computer I use I install antiX, then FT10, that performs the changes to zzzfm’s config that enable it.
    Since those edits to zzzfm config are perfomed running a script, that script can certainly be availble via Package Installer, for folks that want to have some extra features in zzzfm (mainly the trash can, but also the usual default Bookmarks, like Downloads, Music, etc, a cleaner bar, and a button to switch between large and small icons)

    P.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by PPC.
    #93948
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    MAKCNM_0709
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    Hi all. I should tell you right away that English is not my first language, so please forgive me if the translation will sound strange

    About the programs you can add to Antix. I would add “CLIRadioPlayer” by @AlexZaz. For me it’s better than Poor Man’s Radio Player.

    About the trash can. Why not just give the user a choice.

    The following is the original text in Russian.
    —————————————————————-

    Всем привет. Говорю сразу английский язык не мой родной так что прошу прощения если перевод будет звучать странно

    На счёт программ, которые можно добавить в Antix. Я бы добавил “CLIRadioPlayer” от @AlexZaz. Как по мне это лучше чем Poor Man’s Radio Player .

    На счёт мусорной корзины. Почему бы просто не дать выбор пользователю.

    #94701
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    PPC
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    Hi. some concrete proposals that could be implemented, not only for the future, but also in current antiX versions:

    – Roxterm could, out of the box, come with the default shortcut keys to copy and paste. Also ctrl+t to add a new tab could be handy.

    – The bashrc file could include a few entries to make life of people that use appimages and flatpaks a bit easier – it would imply to extra packages, just 3 entries on the bashrc:

    
    # Allow running appimages on the ~/Applications folder to be run just as regular commands (with auto-completion too)
    if [ -d "$HOME/Applications" ] ;
      then PATH="$HOME/Applications:$PATH"
    fi
    
    # Allow flatpaks to be run just as regular commands, without need for the "flatpak run" prefix
    if [ -d "/var/lib/flatpak/exports/bin/" ] ;
      then PATH="/var/lib/flatpak/exports/bin/:$PATH"
    fi
    
    # Use the alias "fp-update-menu" to automatically add or remove flatpaks to/from antiX's menu, and update it: 
    if [ -d "/var/lib/flatpak/exports/bin/" ] ; 
      then alias fp-update-menu="sudo ln -f -s /var/lib/flatpak/exports/share/applications/*.desktop /usr/share/applications && cd /usr/share/applications && sudo find . -xtype l -exec rm {} \; && sudo desktop-menu --write-out-global && echo antiX menu has been updated"
    fi

    Edit and another suggestion (that I can help implement): Since, for me, Streamlight no longer works, I would replace it with the .lua script that allows users to preset the resolution that should be used to stream YT videos – set to 360p by default (that should play smoothly in 99% of existing computers). I could write a tiny yad GUI to select the quality that mpv should always use to stream YT and also allow the script to run on the system tray – highlight any YT video address and clicking that system tray icon starts mpv streaming the video, at the present quality. Right clicking the system tray icon allows to change the default video quality and Exit the script, removing it from the system tray. Simple and efficient- highlight the video address (or copy it) and click the icon on the system tray – any potato computer can stream YT, from the browser, no need for plug-ins or even starting smtube.

    Tip: adding http://www.tonvid.com/ to the default bookmarks is a nice way to stream YT from any browser, and it can be used together with mpv, to stream YT videos. This works on any antiX version, even 32bits, running Seamonkey and Min as browsers… (I have to squeeze a couple of years more out of my 32bit HP laptop. Thank god it is built like a tank).

    P.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 18 hours ago by PPC.
    #94761
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    Robin
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    And at least 4 desktops as standard, two get crowded quickly.

    Here’s my antiX 23 proposal for a flexible solution, allowing user to decide himself how many desktops he’d like to have. So the default could stick to 2. This tiny script could either get added to antiX control center, or even better: added as an additional entry to the context menu (right click) of desktops area in system tray.

    #!/bin/bash
    # desktop-management-antix
    # this is an antiX community script 2022
    # gpl v3
    recent=$(($(wmctrl -d | sed -n '$ s/^\([[:digit:]]*\)..*/\1/p')+1))
    desktops=$(sed -n "s/$recent/^$recent/p" <<<"1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16")
    count="$(yad --borders=15 --center --undecorated --fixed --width=100 --height=200 \
        --window-icon="preferences-desktop-theme" \
        --title=$"antiX multiple desktops management" \
        --text="<b>"$"Manage antiX desktops""</b>\n\n"$"Please select desired count of desktops from\npulldown menu below. "$"If reducing desktop count\nall program windows will be moved from the\nclosed desktop(s) to the desktop with highest\ncount remaining.""\n" \
        --form --separator="|" --item-separator="|" \
        --field=$"Count:":CB "$desktops" \
        --button=$"Leave":1 --button=$"Change desktop count":0)"
    [ $? -ne 0 ] || [ $recent -eq ${count::-1} ] && exit 0
    wmctrl -n ${count::-1}
    

    It doesn’t need any additional packages installed, all what is needed is present in antiX 21/22 out of the box. Prepared for translation already, so you can create the template (.pot) file using the default command bash –dump-po-strings desktop-management-antix | xgettext -L PO -o desktop-management-antix.pot –

    Sure, people familiar with console and command line can easily file the command wmctrl -n <number of desktops desired> manually to have the very same result in an instant, but many new users won’t even guess there exists a simple command like that to manage the desktop count on the fly, so a context menu entry could be helpful.

    Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

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