- This topic has 45 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated May 2-6:56 pm by Wallon.
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Posts
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Robin
Dear Wallon,
many thanks for all this great effort to fix all the quoting characters in antiX and MX for the french languages!
Another hint which might speed up this task and make it a bit easier for you:
Use the following filter patterns in transifex editor:To display only all translated strings containing one or more instances of the single ASCII quoting:
translation_text:\'To display only all translated strings containing one or more instances of the double ASCII quoting:
translation_text:"This way you don’t need to check all strings with your eyes whether they contain the ASCII style quoting. It will be highlighted and filtered for you by transifex instead, so the replacement is not that difficult.
Btw, we’ll have to check all languages for this issue.
Can you give me a due date for the translation of your file?
If it’s for antiX 23, I think I have some time to spare.We’ll have to ask @anticapitalista for the deadline. By now I have no clue when precisely it will be needed. But in the end here we are all volunteer, and we can only contribute the amount of spare time we have, not more.
Yours
RobinWindows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Dear fellow translators!
Anticapitalista has informed me that some of the entries in this resource have high priority.
Please translate all entries matching these keys (part-keys, matching multiple entries each) first:
android-device-usb-connect antix-firewall-toggle antix-wifi-switch antiX-workspace-manager autoremove icewm-manager-gui icewm-quick-personal-menu-manager icewm-remember-settings icewm-toolbar-icon-manager login-config-antix pmrp Sound_Card trash wallpaper yad-color set_time-and_date Recently_used_delete Recently_used_settings(see some postings above how to filter for keys in transifex editor)
Many thanks!
RobinWindows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Wallon
Dear Robin,
I don’t find pmrp. Is there another name in Transifex for this package?
Cordialement,
WallonHi Wallon!
Is there another name in Transifex for this package?
These are subkeys within the resource antix23-desktop-files.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
PPC
Localizing an application name is always hard… “Poor Man’s Radio Player” is the app’s name, but it also means “Radio player for poor folks”… I don’t like localizing apps names, but, when I find that the app is important enough or the name cryptic enough, I sometimes do stuff like:
“ARandR” – because changing screen resolution is important and even some long time Linux users do not know the app’s name, I went for something like (in Portuguese) “ARandR Set screen resolution”
“yad-color” – I went for something like “Pick colors”It’s not ideal… Very well known apps are cryptic names: for example: “MS Word”- by the name, it stands to reason that it’s an app related to Words or writing… But “MS Excel”, “Ms Powerpoint”? Those app names, by themselves mean nothing, were seemingly chosen randomly- but no one translates their names, on the contrary, most people do not talk about “spreadsheet file”, they say “Excel file”, sometimes even when using other spreadsheet software… That random name is now synonymous with that particular kind of software or action…
Particularities about “neologisms”: In Brazil, for example “to xerox” is to use a copy machine; in Portugal “Kispo” (a well known brand of clothing in the 80’s) means (more or less) “any kind of impermeable fluffy coat”, etc… Edit: a good one – in Oporto, many people still call a cup of coffee from a machine a “Cimbalino”, because the first machines used in Coffee shops were from a brand called “Cimbali”.In Linux there are very few World Wide Known Apps – maybe VLC, LibreOffice, Gimp and Firefox/Thunderbird? And even so, you have to be somewhat geeky to know those apps, if you are using Windows/Mac… So, it’s a nice idea using the app name AND what it does (in one or two words), in the menu.
P.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by PPC.
Wallon
Dear PPC
I completely agree with your approach.
I did exactly the same as you.Concerning the Poor Man’s Radio application, there is no French radio. I have never heard a French speaker use this application.
For the icewm applications, I decided to always start with the word icewm. That way, you can find the tools next to each other.
IceWM Manager…
IceWM Quick…
IceWM Remenber…
IceWM Toolbar…
Normally, this is not done in French but it will be faster for the user.Dear Robin,
Thank you regarding Poor Man’s Radio. English speakers use too many abbreviations.
Best regards,
WallonWallon
Dear Robin,
This key is missing a semicolon.
Cordialement,
WallonAttachments:
marcelocripe
Normally, in the English language the name is at the beginning of the sentence, but in Portuguese language the name goes at the end of the sentence. I only reverse this order when I need the menus to be strategically close together.
Some of the adaptations of the translations to the Brazilian Portuguese language version look like this:
AlsaMixer – Misturador de Áudio
AlsaMixer – Equalizador de Áudio
Atualizador do antiX
Configurações de Idioma do Sistema Operacional
Configurações de Idioma do Usuário
Criador de Dispositivo USB Executável
Navegador de Internet Dillo
Navegador de Internet Firefox
Navegador de Internet Links2
Gerenciador de Arquivos Midnight Commander
Gerenciador de Arquivos ROX-Filer
Gerenciador de Arquivos zzzFM
Organizador de Notas Hierárquicas CherryTree
Reprodutor de Rádio do Poor ManWhen it is not possible to keep the original name in the entry “Name[pt_BR]=Creator of USB Device Executable”, I usually include the original name in the entry “Comment[pt_BR]=Create an operating system with all its functionalities in a USB device with Live USB Maker”.
Until recently, people referred to surfing the internet with the “e” that was used in Internet Explorer, they said “where is the ‘e’ of the internet” (the tetra ‘e’ was pronounced in a diminutive form, if it exists a diminutive form for a vowel, said the “little guy” from the internet” – lots of laughs). Most people never even knew or knew the name of the internet browser, which was Internet Explorer. More recently “the ‘O’ of Opera” or “the ‘G’ of Google Chrome” and so on. The truth is that people are not required to know how to read or write names in English, the name doesn’t matter to most people. People just want to click and see the program work in their language. If in the menus, people only see the English names, people will not click and will never know that most of these programs are translated. Therefore, the GNU/Linux standard of putting in the “Name” entry just the name of the program, does not foresee that people are not obliged to know what a program is or what it is for just by reading its name.
– – – – –
Normalmente, no idioma Ingês o nome fica no início da frase, mas em idioma Português o nome vai para o final da frase. Eu só inverto esta ordem quando eu preciso que os menus fiquem estrategicamente próximos.
Algumas das adaptações das traduções para a versão em idioma Português do Brasil ficaram assim:
AlsaMixer – Misturador de Áudio
AlsaMixer – Equalizador de Áudio
Atualizador do antiX
Configurações de Idioma do Sistema Operacional
Configurações de Idioma do Usuário
Criador de Dispositivo USB Executável
Navegador de Internet Dillo
Navegador de Internet Firefox
Navegador de Internet Links2
Gerenciador de Arquivos Midnight Commander
Gerenciador de Arquivos ROX-Filer
Gerenciador de Arquivos zzzFM
Organizador de Notas Hierárquicas CherryTree
Reprodutor de Rádio do Poor ManQuando não é possível manter o nome original na entrada “Name[pt_BR]=Criador de Dispositivo USB Executável”, eu costumo incluir o nome original na entrada “Comment[pt_BR]=Cria um sistema operacional com todas as suas funcionalidades em um dispositivo USB com o Live USB Maker”.
Até a pouco tempo atrás, as pessoas se referiam a navegar na internet ao “e” que era do Internet Explorer, diziam “cadê o ‘e’ da internet” (a tetra ‘e’ era pronunciada na forma diminutiva, se é que existe uma forma diminutiva para uma vogal, diziam o “‘ezinho’ da internet” – muitos risos). A maioria das pessoas nunca nem sabiam ou souberam o nome do navegador de internet, que era o Internet Explorer. Mais recentemente “o ‘O’ do Opera” ou o “o ‘G’ do Google Chrome” e assim por diante. A bem da verdade é que as pessoas não são obrigadas a saberem a ler ou a escrever os nomes em Inglês, o nome pouco importa para a maioira das pessoas. As pessoas só querem clicar e ver funcionando o programa em seu idioma. Se nos menus, as pessoas só verem os nomes em Inglês, as pessoas não irão clicar e nunca irão saber que a maioria destes programas estão traduzidos. Por tanto, o padrão do GNU/Linux de colocar na entrada “Name” apenas com o nome do programa, não prevê que as pessoas não são obrigadas a sabarem o que é ou para que serve um programa apenas lendo o seu nome.
Wallon
Dear Robin,
I draw your attention to the fact that my translations change by themselves at Transifex.
Look at the example in Transifex on my screenshot.
Antix FAQ in English and in French is the same! We don’t translate.
12 days ago, the translation of “antiX FAQ” became “help” for [fr].
I just manually reset antiX FAQ.I’ve already seen several automatic changes like this. Even worse, [fr] is changed but not [fr_BE]. So I have to check both languages.
This is exactly the case for [fr_BE], the translation of “antiX FAQ” has never been changed.You see, for me, I have no way to check if something changes.
I thought that translations in Transifex were never overwritten and this happens to me several times.
Cordialement,
WallonAttachments:
Dear Wallon,
I’ve checked the case from your example screenshot. Here the results:The resource was initially uploaded 12 days ago. The upload of all the original language files takes some minutes, so transifex performs some action already on its own in the meantime while upload is still running.
— The first entry 12 days ago by me shows the UNTRANSLATED English string, which reads »antiX FAQ«. A this very moment the French translation field was still empty, transifex lies here about it had read “antiX FAQ” already. This is the source language string, not a translation. (Must be a bug in their software, listing this sting erroneously in the history).
— The second entry, also 12 days ago „by anticapitalista” was actually done automatically by transifex immediately after English resource file was uploaded and is the very first translation to French. As said, this was obviously done already during the initial upload process was still running, I had sent all translations in one go with the tx-client, but they don’t seem to wait for the process to be finished before starting with some action on their own.
— The third entry, by me, is again the progress of initial upload of the resource, this time the original french translation as found in the .desktop file was transferred by their tx-client. See the content of the original antiX-docs.desktop file, which shows clearly the existing French translation:
[Desktop Entry] Encoding=UTF-8 Name=antiX FAQ Name[ar]=تعليمات Name[bg]=Помощ Name[ca_ES]=Ajuda Name[cs]=Nápověda Name[da]=Hjælp Name[de]=antiX »Fragen & Antworten« Name[el]=Βοήθεια Name[es]=Ayuda Name[et]=Abi Name[eu]=Laguntza Name[fa]=راهنما Name[fi]=Ohje Name[fr]=Aide Name[hi]=सहायता Name[ hr]=Pomoć Name[hu]=Súgó Name[is]=Hjálp Name[it]=FAQ di antiX Name[ja]=ヘルプ Name[ko]=도움말 Name[lt]=Pagalba Name[mk]=Помош Name[nb]=Hjelp Name[nl]=Help Name[pl]=Pomoc Name[pt]=Ajuda do antiX Name[pt_BR]=Ajuda do antiX Name[ro]=Ajutor Name[ru]=Справка Name[sk]=Pomocník Name[sl]=Pomoč Name[sq]=Ndihmë Name[sr]=Помоћ Name[sv]=Hjälp Name[tr]=Yardım Name[uk]=Довідка Name[zh_CN]=帮助 Name[zh_TW]=說明Name[fr]=Aide was properly extracted to « Aide » and has been transferred to transifex as initial entry for french language.
— And finally in the fourth entry of your screenshot you have restored the English original back as French translation right now. My conclusion: Nobody has touched your translations.
I’ve already seen several automatic changes like this
Please let me know them, we’ll have to check whether my new script performing all the extracting and transfer action suffers from some kind of bug possibly. But I rather believe this behaviour is caused by the transifex translation manager, since my script has updated the resource several times meanwhile, and your screenshot shows clearly none of these runs has touched the translated string ever.
Even worse, [fr] is changed but not [fr_BE]. So I have to check both languages.
As you can see in your example .desktop file, it contains an fr translation but not an fr_BE translation by now. Hence the initial translation of this string must differ in these two languages. The translation field should have been empty in fr_BE, while it reads »Aide« in fr translation as extracted from the original .desktop file. Since each .desktop file has different entries, some of them fr and fr_BE both, some of them only fr, and some of them none, you’ll see different results in each entry initially.
The second reason for the different behaviour of fr and fr_BE is: The transifex translation manager obviously fills in some strings in some languages, while not in others. (But I’m pretty sure it won’t overwrite existing entries.)
As you can see if comparing my screenshot of the very entry for fr_BE with yours for fr, it shows: There was only the initial resource upload, the string not translated in fr_BE. The transifex translation manager has filled in the empty string immediately and automatically with one of your former translations you have done in the past on some other resource. If there would have been present an original fr_BE entry in the .desktop file, this automatic fillup would have been overwritten by completion of the initial upload, just as you’ve seen in your screenshot of fr translation. So obviously also in fr_BE language none of my later resource updates has changed the translation anymore, once the resource upload 12 days ago was completed by the tx-client.
I thought that translations in Transifex were never overwritten and this happens to me several times.
My scripts are designed not to touch any existing translation (except for this premature silly automatic fillup by transifex, happening during initial upload is still in progress, causing original translated strings from .desktop files overwriting these automatically generated entries on completion of the initial upload again by the proper original translation strings.)
Many greetings
Robin—————–
P.S.:This key is missing a semicolon.
Should be fixed meanwhile. Many thanks!
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Dear fellow translators,
Another resource update
The resource was updated again yesterday, it covers two additional antiX .desktop files from the 23 beta testing version, which were still missing. The respective strings are stored with the keys:
antix-viewer deb-installerPlease check the translations of the entries under these keys, which either have been extracted from the original .desktop files or might have been automatically filled in by transifex TM (Translation Manager) if there was no initial translation present.
Resulting desktop files:
You can check out the current state of translations on your testing system by installing the antix23-desktop-files package from my repo:
https://gitlab.com/Robin-antiX/antix23-desktop-files/-/tree/main/deb-paketPlease let me know any issues with the installation or deinstallation of this package.
Many thanks!
Best regards
RobinWindows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
Wallon
Dear Robin,
Transifex is not stable. I have ghost translations coming in. I should have made screenshots. I will make a new revision of the file.
This is annoying.Sincerely,
WallonWallon
Dear Robin,
Here is another good example.
Installer was translated by Cyril a long time ago in the fr files!en = Installer
fr = Programme d’installationThe fr_BE file has kept the old translation.
The fr file has been re-translated by Robin with the French infinitive verb “Installer”.
This is annoying behaviour in Transifex.Should a revision be made to block this behaviour? I don’t like to use this function because the other translators won’t be able to modify anything. I would rather have an empty field than a bad translation. If it is empty, I know I have to translate. If it is translated, I don’t have a report that shows me the changes made on Transifex.
I know you work a lot and you don’t want to bother the translators.
While I was translating a few days ago, I had a window that appeared in Transifex. This window said that Robin was translating the fr file at the same time as me. I forgot to do a printscreen.
I think I’ll have some surprises when anticapitalista will release the Gamma version in fr and fr_BE.
Cordialement,
WallonAttachments:
Dear Wallon,
You have to understand the basic concept we are following:
We have a bunch of more or less, fully, partly or not at all translated .desktop files at antiX 23 (Just as we were used to in all the antiXes before.) This is the point we start with.
Now my script collects all translatable strings and all already translated entries from by now 217 .desktop files and collates these by now 42.978 Entries to 105 language specific .strings files, each string bound to its specific key. This makes sure we don’t lose any existing translations from the preexisting desktop files in the process. Otherwise some languages might loose all their translation, including all translations already fine tuned by their original translators who made the .desktop files. It is actually impossible in this process to review and select entries automated by the criteria “this is a fine entry, keep it” and “this is bad wording, put a blank string to transifex in its place. This evaluation task is something you as translator will have to do afterwards when the strings are on transifex, and exactly that task is what you are complaining about. The translations you see marked as “translated by Robin” at the very creation date of the resource (or the in case of addition of new entries the very date when a string was first time created for translation), all these translations are actually not my translations, but the translations which already existed, and needed to be transferred to transifex along with the resource file. As said above, the official transifex tx client for file upload doesn’t work fast enough to catch up with the automatic fill in by their TM mechanism, filling in the empty resource with old translation picked up arbitrarily from some other resources. These might fit in some (or even some more) cases, but as well they might fail. You as translator should know the original state of the .desktop entries, and this is another reason for uploading the existing translations.
Installer was translated by Cyril a long time ago in the fr files!
This is simply impossible, since the resource exists only since 12 days now. Nobody can have translated this very string before (besides the people who populated the .desktop files with translations) The string marked as translated by Cyril was simply copied automatically from another resource, and it might match the current string or not. You need to check anyway.
If you happen to see that translation manager has done a better proposal for filling in a specific string than that you found present in the respective .desktop file, you should be glad and accept this proposal, regardless whether it was provided by the automatic TM mistimed, amidst the source creation or update process was still in progress, so it looks to you I’d have overwritten some useful translation. You need to understand that these automatic translations are inserted before the resource with all its existing translations was completely finished with uploading, causing the confusing entries which look to you as if I was overwriting old existing entries of this resource. This is wrongly understood, since there were no entries before the creation process running, doing these overwrites. The resource simply didn’t exist.
Transifex should really wait before starting their automated translation until a resource is completely uploaded, with all their preexisting translated entries. It’s not me to blame for this mess in the entry history. And it’s not me translating these entries, overwriting the mistimed automatically generated entries in the source creation or source updating process, even when transifex marks them falsely as translated by me. THIS IS STILL SOURCE UPLOAD, nothing else.
While I was translating a few days ago, I had a window that appeared in Transifex. This window said that Robin was translating the fr file at the same time as me. I forgot to do a printscreen.
Yes, this was when I checked your former issue with the key not found, I needed to enter the french translation editor to look up the strings myself and create the screenshot in the posting 103973 above. I had the very same popup window letting me know you are just about to translate. But I assure you, I don’t touch your translations and don’t change anything when opening the resource in this editor mode for checking things.
If it is empty, I know I have to translate. If it is translated, I don’t have a report that shows me the changes made on Transifex.
Yes, this is true. But there is a way around. You can always check for all translations created by yourself, using the filter translator:Wallon. As well you can check for all translated strings uploaded by API (which would in this case come up with all strings as found in the original .desktop file, which not have been modified by you). Use the filter origin:API for this. And finally you should use the filter origin:TM to check all entries added automatically by the transifex TM translation manager and make sure these hit the meaning properly. I know, this is not the perfect answer to the problem, but I do hope it is of some use to you. I’ve just asked the transifex dev team whether there is a way to invert the search criteria for translator and API, so you could see all strings NOT translated by yourself, but I’m still waiting for answer (Probably they’ll answer after the Easter days only)
The fr file has been re-translated by Robin with the French infinitive verb “Installer”. […] Should a revision be made to block this behaviour?
As said, I would not translate it this way. Even when my French is pretty poor, I do know these basics. Unfortunately there is no way to block this behaviour of transifex. You simply need to check all entries you haven’t done yourself (which means these are either entries existing formerly in the .desktop file translated by somebody else, or have been added by TM automatically. In both cases you need to check them.) The trouble with the TM is: Even entries marked as “translated by Wallon” might not match properly when these have been entered by TM. This thing can’t know whether the translation matches the context.
Yours
RobinWindows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
marcelocripe
Unfortunately Transifex tries to fill empty or blank entries with “translation memory”. Several times I saw this happening, the “translation memory” filled in the field by itself and confused me, because I had not yet reached that entry and there was already text there. This is also true of features updated by the MX Linux team. That’s why I always write on the forum for all volunteer translators to download all the translated files you’ve translated and keep a copy, as it’s much easier to copy and paste than having to translate everything again.
Not long ago, several MX resources and translations were lost, because, according to what was written on the MX Linux forum, an administrator had left the Transifex page open on the computer and a third person had unauthorized access and destroyed several resources . Unfortunately I won’t be able to include the URL here so everyone can read what I read on the other forum.
– – – – –
Infelizmente o Transifex tenta preencher as entradas vazias ou em branco com a “memória da tradução”. Por diversas vezes eu vi isto acontecendo, a “memória da tradução” preencheu o campo sozinho e me confundiu, pois eu ainda não havia chegado naquela entrada e já havia um texto lá. Isso também ocorre com os recursos atualizados pela equipe do MX Linux. É por isso que eu sempre escrevo no fórum para todos os tradutores voluntários baixarem todos os arquivos traduzidos que você fez a tradução e guardar uma cópia, pois é muito mais fácil copiar e colar do que ter que traduzir tudo de novo.
Não faz muito tempo que vários recursos do MX e as traduções foram perdidos, porque, segundo o que escreveram no fórum do MX Linux, um administrador havia deixado a página do Transifex aberta no computador e uma terceira pessoa teve acesso não autorizado e destruiu vários recursos. Infelizmente eu não conseguirei incluir aqui o URL para que todos possam ler o que eu li no outro fórum.
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