antiX packages for a NONdeveloper install?

Forum Forums New users New Users and General Questions antiX packages for a NONdeveloper install?

  • This topic has 9 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated Jul 10-4:15 am by PPC.
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  • #148374
    Member
    stevesr0

      Hi all,

      a simple question, but one that may be hard to simply answer.

      Is there a general list of packages required for users who don’t do any “development”?

      I assume they don’t need many of the libraries that are required by developers, and that might routinely be included in a full install.

      #148376
      Moderator
      BobC

        You probably don’t need Geany. If you remove all the installed geany packages, afterwards, you could run the autoremove app to remove all un-needed libraries.

        PS: I take that back. Don’t remove geany. It gets used by the antiX Control Center to edit configuration files, if you ever need to do that. antiX doesn’t come setup to do development out of the box.

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by BobC.

        Daily driver distro https://www.antixforum.com

        #148378
        Member
        Robin

          I assume they don’t need many of the libraries that are required by developers, and that might routinely be included in a full install.

          There are no packages installed which are exclusively for development. This means in turn, if you want to do that kind of stuff on antiX “full”, you’d need to install things like the so called build-essentials or specific development libraries (with the extension -dev in their name) separately and manually first.

          To get an idea what libraries I’m talking about try in a terminal window:
          $ apt-cache search -- -dev
          This lists all the available development libraries. None of these is preinstalled.

          Is there a general list of packages required for users who don’t do any “development”?

          So the simple answer to that is: No. There is no stuff of that kind installed in antiX full routinely.

          Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

          #148379
          Member
          Robin

            Well, maybe with a very few exceptions (antiX full runit 64 bit) :

            $ apt list --installed | grep -- '-dev/'
            dpkg-dev/stable,stable,now 1.21.22 all  [installiert]
            libeudev-dev/bookworm,now 252:3.2.14-1.0antix1 amd64  [installiert]
            libgcc-12-dev/stable,now 12.2.0-14 amd64  [Installiert,automatisch]
            xutils-dev/stable,now 1:7.7+6 amd64  [installiert]

            But removing them will cause lots of trouble I guess, let’s simulate it:

            $ sudo apt-get --simulate purge dpkg-dev libeudev-dev libgcc-12-dev xutils-dev
            Paketlisten werden gelesen… Fertig
            Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut… Fertig
            Statusinformationen werden eingelesen… Fertig
            Die folgenden Pakete wurden automatisch installiert und werden nicht mehr benötigt:
              libasan8 libcc1-0 libitm1 liblsan0 libtsan2 libubsan1 linux-headers-6.5.0-0.deb12.4-common linux-headers-6.6.13+bpo-common linux-kbuild-6.5.0-0.deb12.4 linux-kbuild-6.6.13+bpo
            Verwenden Sie »sudo apt autoremove«, um sie zu entfernen.
            Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
              broadcom-sta-dkms* dkms* dpkg-dev* gcc* gcc-12* libeudev-dev* libgcc-12-dev* linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86* linux-headers-6.5.0-0.deb12.4-amd64* linux-headers-6.6.13+bpo-amd64* xutils-dev*
            0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 11 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
            Purg broadcom-sta-dkms [6.30.223.271-23]
            Purg dkms [3.0.10-8+deb12u1]
            Purg dpkg-dev [1.21.22]
            Purg gcc [4:12.2.0-3]
            Purg linux-headers-6.5.0-0.deb12.4-amd64 [6.5.10-1~bpo12+1]
            Purg linux-compiler-gcc-12-x86 [6.1.90-1]
            Purg linux-headers-6.6.13+bpo-amd64 [6.6.13-1~bpo12+1]
            Purg gcc-12 [12.2.0-14]
            Purg libeudev-dev [252:3.2.14-1.0antix1]
            Purg libgcc-12-dev [12.2.0-14]
            Purg xutils-dev [1:7.7+6]

            Better not remove these…

            Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

            #148382
            Member
            sybok

              Just curious – why not start with antiX base ISO then?
              Perhaps, comparison of list of included packages could help.

              users who don’t do any “development”

              What exactly is *development*?
              I know some people working in SW company used ‘vi[m]’ to code on virtual machines (simulating customers target environment) where they tested the scripts which is installed.
              Though ‘vi[m]’ is not a library but a binary.

              #148383
              Member
              PPC

                I’m always amazed that even long time antiX users (the OP has been around for over 6 years) have such misconceptions about desktops OSes in general and antiX in particular… I always say something like this: “in my opinion antiX is the lightest and fastest general propose Linux based system”.
                antiX is not a “developer’s” OS, it’s not a multimedia production OS, it’s not a gamming OS, is not a Serve OS, etc, etc… it’s a general porpose OS, like Windows, like MacOS, like Ubuntu, like Mint, like MX, like PopOS (etc almost ad eternum). There is very little “general” stuff you can shave off to make it lighter (lighter in the sense of disk space used, not in the sense that it makes antiX use less CPU and RAM): I would always start using FULL and remove anything I don’t require:
                – if I don’t need an Office suite, remove LibreOffice
                – if I don’t need to watch youtube videos, remove smtube and similar apps
                – if I don’t need to run DOS apps, remove DosBOX
                – if I don’t need to game, remove any game it includes
                – you don’t need/don’t want to use pipewire for sound, remove it and it’s related packages

                etc.

                Why would you think that the default FULL version of antiX comes ready to be used for Developers? As Bob and Robin showed, any development related software that anticapitalista included is there a concrete reason, to make antiX work better, not to be used for development. Even if doing what you asked was possible, it would just save a few mb’s of disk space… and eventually, you would require the missing packages for something, sooner or later…

                In short – strange idea, if you know a bit about how antiX works, but from the outside, it may even seem like a good idea.

                P.

                #148390
                Moderator
                BobC

                  I agree, for normal users, its not worth the effort or potential for future problems to delete the programs the distro includes by default. Robin’s examples of dev related packages are included because the broadcom drivers are derived from downloads intended for MS windows, and need to be compiled to be installed. Without those packages you wouldn’t be able to install, update or reinstall those drivers.

                  Daily driver distro https://www.antixforum.com

                  #148417
                  Member
                  stevesr0

                    Hi all,

                    Thanks for comments.

                    I get the impression that some felt I was insulting antiX, which was not my intention.

                    I run antiX on all my computers and as Robin pointed out have been doing so for years, and feel it is a very nice distro.

                    Two elaborations.

                    #1. What triggered my question at this moment? Recently, on my Sid install, there has been a long delay in upgrades of qt6 related packages and it finally occurred to me that these might only be needed by qt6 developers, not by someone such as me.

                    Having thought of the question, I realized that I had not seen a discussion about the need/utility of “developer” packages. So I felt it might be enlightening (at least for me) to ask the question on the forum.

                    And it has been.

                    #2. sybok’s comment
                    “What exactly is development?

                    Seems to me to be a very good one.

                    I think that the pure use of the term developer is those who are responsible for the maintenance and update of packages.

                    But in a more general sense, I believe it also applies to people who use code to create useful tools (for example, Robin and PPC) or who (like abc-nix) analyze code in packages or functions that people were having trouble with and produce fixed versions.

                    #148419
                    Member
                    Robin

                      who use code to create useful tools

                      For bash scripting level you just need a default text editor. So you can call text editors dev tools already. Nevertheless I believe it is not the very best idea to uninstall text editors, just for the reason they could be also used for development :)

                      qt6 related packages

                      If I’m not mistaken these are a kind of framework you need to have installed to run some programs whose developers have decided to rely on the presence of functionality provided by these frameworks. Uninstalling the frameworks means purging the respective programs the same moment.

                      Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.

                      #148439
                      Member
                      PPC

                        I get the impression that some felt I was insulting antiX, which was not my intention.

                        I did not feel like you were trying to insult antiX- I just said that your questions sounded strange coming from someone that’s not exactly new in the antiX world. In fact, asking if antiX CAN BE used by developers is an excellent question- I’ve written dozens of bash scripts. They were all written in geany, but any other text editor would do. Geany has something called syntax highlighting- that detects the programming language that is present on the text and color codes some terms, and that can be helpful. My GUI’s are almost all written using yad (a tiny program that is present because it’s used to render many GUI’s used in bash scripts- even the calendar that pops up when you click the clock, uses YAD), I reused and adapted a tiny python portion of code in one script and adapted antiX CC GUI’s code, written in gkdialog, so it could be used as the GUI for IceWM CC (not a fun experience).

                        In a sense, you can say antiX can be used, out of the box by shell script “development”… but that happens only because all the packages that are used are the same ones required to run the programs, GUIs, etc that antiX normally uses, and NOT because disk space is “wasted” with development libraries, etc.

                        P.

                        • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by PPC.
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