antiX plus desktop-environment.

Forum Forums antiX-development Development antiX plus desktop-environment.

  • This topic has 96 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated Jul 13-12:05 pm by masinick.
Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 96 total)
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  • #38473
    Member
    mrootmroot

    Anti-

    Are thinking the DE edition if it happens will be an antiX 19.x release or are you thinking it will be an antiX 20 release?

    #38664
    Member
    Avatarolsztyn

    I hope it is that almost everyone is on vacation about this time of year so this forum is very quiet…
    I do not expect any insights about the future plans on antiX desktop any time soon but taking an opportunity we have been exchanging various preferences on desktop I just want to again emphasize that I trust judgement of antiX owner(s) that the best decision will be taken again.
    However as I have been playing/testing various desktops on top of antiX infrastructure I have a question to whoever is not on vacation at the moment:
    Considering that IceWM went a long way to make a nice desktop (with some theme work) I am comparing to XFCE in terms of functionality and the only material difference I see is that it is using Thunar, which supports networked data, vs. SpaceFM, which does not. As I am not in-depth familiar with XFCE: Is there anything else as material difference for antiX?
    Any insights appreciated….

    #38666
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @olsztyn:

    The main difference between using a desktop environment such as KDE, GNOME and XFCE is that a complete desktop environment includes integrated window manager, file manager, terminal and desktop application software.

    Though you can get additional software with a window manager, IceWM and Fluxbox, for example, do not include a complete environment. Each component is separate.

    You mentioned Thunar; that is an XFCE file manager. Rox file manager or SpaceFM are file managers that are not unique to any particular window manager.

    You can use Thunar with another environment but like Xfce4-Terminal it comes with XFCE.

    Similarly konsole, Kmail and Konqueror come with KDE, a desktop environment.

    Brian Masinick

    #38669
    Member
    Avatarolsztyn

    @masinick:
    Yes, in general understood.
    From the perspective of this thread however whichever DE will be chosen I am OK with such decision. I hope it will be a significant difference vs. current almost perfect antiX environment, not a small, modest change just for the sake of now calling this DE.
    Aside from the point it is quite unfortunate that so much selfish fragmentation and waste has been developed in Linux world to the detriment of Linux…

    #38671
    Member
    AvatarPDP-8

    Out of left field:

    DE’s are already everywhere. I mean it would certainly be a cool technical exercise, but the raison d’etre of antiX would be lost to me somewhat.

    What I think would be nifty is to leverage the existing knowledge of antiX to the ubiquitous SBC of Raspberry Pi’s – even older models.

    What has already been demonstrated with my use of PiCore (a port of TinyCore) is how fast it runs in ram as compared to larger conventional pi distros that run from mounted slow filesystems on sd cards. Running in ram is the secret to make a 900mhz cpu on older models blow your mind.

    Put antiX, running from ram, on an RPI and you might not believe it. New Vulcan driver support is interesting.

    Heh, just my 2c…

    #38672
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @olsztyn:
    Though there is fragmentation, choice is what leads to the fragmentation and also to allow for variety.

    Keep in mind that there are both pros and cons in this. Linux divided the development of personal computer systems software. In 1991 when Linus Torvalds wrote his first Linux kernel and made it available to use with the already developing GNU software utilities (which were also a departure from the UNIX development community).

    I’m very glad that it happened. For one thing, there’s no way that either Torvalds or I could afford a personal UNIX workstation and I have mixed feelings about DOS and Windows. 25 to 30 years later, Windows finally has a decent shell, the Powershell. Isn’t it interesting that the shell looks like a UNIX or Linux shell? Linux has now been a positive influence on Windows development! Who would have ever expected that?

    So please keep in mind that division and diversity of development is a good and necessary component of software freedom. Whether I love a particular feature or not, I encourage multiple developments. The reason is that I have followed the history of operating systems and I have written graduate education papers on this matter many times. In fact one of my first graduate papers was a work on my impression of MULTICS, the research operating system that later led to the development of UNIX, then Linux. I’m very glad that these events took place.

    Not every research project or development is successful but the overall collection of what works out and what doesn’t helps in future development.

    Brian Masinick

    #38673
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    @PDP-8:

    I like your idea. I also intend to use antiX primarily in window manager setups but I don’t want to discourage anyone who wants to make other systems with Desktop Environment (TDE, KDE-PLASMA, Enlightenment or whatever). I like your idea better, stretching out into completely different areas, like miniature or super low cost devices – that does sound more like something that meets the “lean and mean” objective.

    Keep the good ideas coming.

    You know that it’s also possible to split into two or three teams and put out various development efforts. Anticapitalista can’t do it all, but we can certainly collaborate with future work.

    Brian Masinick

    #38676
    Forum Admin
    rokytnjirokytnji

    Wanna really get weird?

    https://it.toolbox.com/blogs/jeffhoogland/installing-moksha-desktop-on-debian-jessie-110415

    If wondering about ram and cpu usage. Bohdi Linux runs it based on Ubuntu.

    Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
    Not all who Wander are Lost.
    I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

    Linux Registered User # 475019
    How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

    #38678
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    Wanna really get weird?

    https://it.toolbox.com/blogs/jeffhoogland/installing-moksha-desktop-on-debian-jessie-110415

    If wondering about ram and cpu usage. Bohdi Linux runs it based on Ubuntu.

    Nah, not my personal thing. I’ve tried out Bodhi Linux before, but I’m not familiar (or don’t remember) this Moksha Desktop, but it’s an interesting thing to introduce into the conversation nevertheless!

    I’m actually more intrigued by the possibility of spawning other projects, maybe like something that would work “antiX-style” on a Raspberry Pi or some other different device. I’m also sensitive, however, to the small size of our current development team. If we really want to get into these other efforts I think someone else is either going to have to take the lead on it or at least give Anticapitalista a lot of support to free him up for new efforts.

    Ultimately, as I’ve said many times, it’s up to Anticapitalista unless someone else starts their own new project. I’d be OK with any of these, but for my own needs I currently like what we have available.

    Brian Masinick

    #38681
    Member
    Avatarolsztyn

    So please keep in mind that division and diversity of development is a good and necessary component of software freedom. Whether I love a particular feature or not, I encourage multiple developments.

    If I remember Unix well enough I think there was a clear separation of system components from user components, which was a fundamental principle of good, solid architecture. And I think this solid architecture was carried originally to Linux. The so called ‘freedom’ that developed in Linux world over time is not only that large variety of virtually the same software such as Terminal was copied, not by providing any significant enhancement of functionality but by pure selfishness, appropriating existing code and calling it differently like K-Terminal or just anything but different; but also and more importantly this ‘freedom’ in Linux world lead to disregarding any rules of strict separation of system components from user components and mixing all together. If you look at content of /etc or /usr as an example it is all mixed up. It is a mess that has developed in Linux world and degraded quality of Linux. Every distro seems now a victim of this mess.
    Intel’s Clear Linux seems the only one that attempts to fix this mess, bring back the original principles of separation of system from user components by moving system components to inaccessible by user area and abandoning such folders as /etc for system use.
    So as much as I agree with choice let it be for a good reason and let it not degrade system architecture and quality of Linux.
    Just my two cents…

    #38685
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    When I first made this post, I had the idea (and time) to ‘possibly’ create an ‘extra’ antiX release that would be different to what we normally deliver. My personal ‘choice’ was MATE, not because I like it (I don’t), but because it would possibly ‘stand out’.
    Anyway, since the O/P I no longer have time to even attempt this, so it is not going to happen (at least by me).
    Of course, anyone can create their own spin/respin using our tools (either snapshot/remaster or build-iso).

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #38701
    Member
    XecureXecure

    No problem here, anticapitalista. There is no great demand right now for a DE version, so no worries.
    I am sure that most of us who enjoy antiX would still choose the current WMs in antiX as our daily driver, or can easily install a DE using the package installer.

    Thanks for all your hard work.

    #38705
    Forum Admin
    rokytnjirokytnji

    Well. For member respins. This thread is full of ideas. If I did not have all my outdoor projects lately.

    I’d give a bohdi anti no-systemd based distro respin a try . As far as building my own.

    Why you may ask.

    Enlightenment is pretty to look at and pretty rare and when I worked with MacPup. Used to be a team member there also back in the day.

    Operates a lot differently as a desktop environment than any you are used to. I just don’t have the computer tweaking time like I used to.

    I am more of plug and play dude lately. Could be I am talking out of my keister also. No telling how libs are arranged and my idea may break other things.

    Hence. Why I mentioned weird.

    Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
    Not all who Wander are Lost.
    I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

    Linux Registered User # 475019
    How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

    #38711
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    When I first made this post, I had the idea (and time) to ‘possibly’ create an ‘extra’ antiX release that would be different to what we normally deliver. My personal ‘choice’ was MATE, not because I like it (I don’t), but because it would possibly ‘stand out’.
    Anyway, since the O/P I no longer have time to even attempt this, so it is not going to happen (at least by me).
    Of course, anyone can create their own spin/respin using our tools (either snapshot/remaster or build-iso).

    I had a feeling that your current projects and responsibilities would consume most of your time and I have appreciated all that you have done for many years.

    I’m hoping that someone else who is younger than me will arise and offer to add either some respin images or to start the fourth distribution in this “immediate family”: (MEPIS, antiX, MX Linux) and the next generation of distribution.

    I liked the idea of support for a different environment, maybe on a different architecture. Raspberry Pi was one possible suggestion.

    I’ve seen a recent resurgence in the idea to bring Linux to the smartphone. This has been started more than once. Without an infrastructure in place I fear that the effort is too large for a project and community of our size unless a significant development team emerges.
    I feel that is the reason that previous efforts have failed. It’s necessary to have a good plan and the resources to do it. However if the infrastructure is properly created I’d love to put it on an old phone and try it out.

    Brian Masinick

    #38725
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    Well. For member respins. This thread is full of ideas. If I did not have all my outdoor projects lately.

    I’d give a bohdi anti no-systemd based distro respin a try . As far as building my own.

    Why you may ask.

    Enlightenment is pretty to look at and pretty rare and when I worked with MacPup. Used to be a team member there also back in the day.

    Operates a lot differently as a desktop environment than any you are used to. I just don’t have the computer tweaking time like I used to.

    I am more of plug and play dude lately. Could be I am talking out of my keister also. No telling how libs are arranged and my idea may break other things.

    Hence. Why I mentioned weird.

    I USED to do MANY respins of my own, but that was 1-2 decades ago at least. I still try out a fair number of distros, and I do remaster and snapshot some of my builds instead of backing them up in the traditional way. The system I am using today, Lenovo Thinkpad X201 was installed much quicker than usual because I took a snapshot, probably one that I had updated 1-2 times, and installed it. Though there were updates available, i was immediately able to use it in the meantime and perform any additional updates in the background as I did other things, like read forum messages and Email messages, write responses to forum and Email messages, and read a few technology articles to keep my retired brain active and working.

    We are probably similar in one respect – we have both done plenty of past distro hopping, installing, configuring, hacking, even building, software and systems.

    Going back quite a few years, I used to take versions of antiX, install perhaps 2-3 of them per release, and make them run either Testing or Sid. Back then, MEPIS was my STABLE distro, Debian Sid was my experimental package system, and antiX was my system where I’d keep the environment relatively solid, but I’d experiment with putting various configurations together. When antiX Core came out, I built my first long term antiX and it looked a LOT like my current MX Linux looks, except it ran Debian Sid and I generally keep MX Linux (like MEPIS) running Stable.

    I haven’t experimented in that way much lately; instead I’ll build a few Live images and use Frugal on one, Static on another, trying to check out various approaches, and then I’ll snapshot them and see what they retain and what reverts to the basic packaging before I configured it. As mentioned, most of my recent stuff is a snapshot. On this specific system, it turns out that it’s really not “antiX” by name, it’s a snapshot of MX-19.2_x64 patito feo February 15 2020 – so we can clearly see the family commonality here; both excellent distributions have quite a few of the same tools, a fact that I rejoice in. Just before MEPIS ceased production, the pace of the work had slowed to a crawl and it was antiX by that time (2012) with the latest innovations in lean and mean technology, so I was very happy when MX Linux adopted the latest from antiX and put an Xfce desktop and the MEPIS Lovers Community behind it.

    This kind of history is why I am inclined to stick with the technology for my main systems – though if any REALLY interesting projects or technologies emerge I will 1) Encourage their work and 2) If time, travel, health, and interest permit, I will endorse and try them out.

    Brian Masinick

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