antiX rolling – how to dist-upgrade and how to install software

[Member Xaver]

With Arch I have some experience, but so far none with Debian rolling.
There are not many informations in the web on system maintenance of Debian rolling.
The most detailed I have found on the Siduction site:
https://manual.siduction.org/sys-admin-apt#apt-upgrade
https://wiki.siduction.de/index.php?title=Wie_kann_ich_Instabilit%C3%A4ten_vermeiden%3F (sorry – no english version)

For best stability they claim:
Never do a dist-upgrade in X.
Never install software in X, if it contains data, that are related to X (i.e. all gui-applications).
Allways perform these operations in runlevel 3 (init 3).
Removal of such software should be done in runlevel 3 too.
This makes system maintenance more complicated than it is in Arch.

Dist-Upgrade:
Run ‘sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -d’ in X.
(So you can still use your PC, while the dist-upgrade is downloaded.)
Then log out, switch to init 3 and run ‘apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade’.

Install software with data related to X:
Start synaptic as normal user (/usr/sbin/synaptic) and only use it as a package browser.
Download the desired packages with ‘sudo apt-get install -d’.

But then I do not know how to proceed further.
If I have downloaded several packages, which command should I use in runlevel 3 to install them all at once?

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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You can safely install in X, no need to drop to init 3.

Use the terminal and read CAREFULLY what it says it is going to do.
Do NOT blindly hit Enter to continue as you may find yourself with a broken system.

apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade 

in a root terminal is all you need.

At times libsystemd0 may get installed.
This is usually ok, and it will be removed once the antiX nosystemd packages get up to date.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by anticapitalista. Reason: fixed typos

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member Xaver]

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@ anticapitalista
Thanks – actually the siduction folks do not give reasons for their advice.

Do you have the answer to my question:
If I only download packages via ‘apt-get install -d’,
which command would install all these packages at once?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Xaver.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Xaver.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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You need to name the package eg apt-get install diffuse -d and then apt-get install diffuse

The -d switch seems pretty pointless to me.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member Xaver]

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@ anticapitalista

I agree. If there is no way to install the downloaded packages without naming them, ‘apt-get install -d’ is pretty pointless.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Xaver.

[Forum Admin rokytnji]

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Just a small example on how I rok and roll lately.

harry@biker:~
$ su
Password: 
root@biker:/home/harry# apt update
<snip>
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
13 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
root@biker:/home/harry# apt list --upgradable
Listing... Done
fonts-opensymbol/oldstable 2:102.6+LibO4.3.3-2+deb8u10 all [upgradable from: 2:102.6+LibO4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-base-core/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-calc/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-common/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 all [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-core/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-draw/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-gtk/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-impress/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-math/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-style-galaxy/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 all [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
libreoffice-writer/oldstable 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
uno-libs3/oldstable 4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
ure/oldstable 4.3.3-2+deb8u10 i386 [upgradable from: 4.3.3-2+deb8u9]
root@biker:/home/harry# apt dist-upgrade
<snip>
Writing Menu: jwm
Writing Menu: fluxbox
Writing Menu: icewm######################################################################################################################################################..] 
root@biker:/home/harry# apt -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libqt4-opengl libqt4-script libqt4-xmlpatterns libqtwebkit4
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
root@biker:/home/harry# exit
exit
harry@biker:~
$ 

Done while in a Icewm Desktop session on AntiX 15 . I am not running Testing repos though. Just plain olkd Jessie and Dave stable antix repo.

If I have downloaded several packages, which command should I use in runlevel 3 to install them all at once?

I don’t know. I install during a Icewm session. I like to install downloaded packages one at a time. To see what systemd stuff may be in it.
I use

dpkg -i

as root or sudo in terminal with that command to install. I’ll install Gdebi if I want a GUI way to do the same thing. We have special cli tools also in /usr/local/bin also for package installation. cli-aptiX
Package installer button in the Antix Control Centre in your menu.

I suggest you check out Dolphins Oracle helpful tutorial videos on youtube. If you find the spare time to do so. Give him a like while there.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlej2CSKlXW5uE9opXukQ

Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
Not all who Wander are Lost.
I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

Linux Registered User # 475019
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[Member fungalnet]

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I agree, I’ve had much more experience in Debian world than in Arch world, there are advantages to both, but this siduction advice seems very far fetched. As far as I know once X is running is running in memory and all X packages can be removed and it will still be running. Whether it will shutdown or will it restart after you butcher it is a different story.
But learning the use of apt and apt-get, and maybe dpkg, is essential. Now siduction is systemd based so don’t take everything they say so seriously because they have so weird daemons and services they are fighting while in X. That’s why we meet here 🙂

anti-X - Adélie - obarun - systemd Free Space

[Member Xaver]

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@ fungalnet
You are right, that the Siduction advice is very far fetched. I have asked about runlevel 3 in the Siduction forum. The answer is, that nothing terrible will happen, if I just use a root-terminal for dist-upgrades and installs.

@ rokytnji
Your hint to use ‘dpkg -i’ leads in the right direction.
If I just download several packages to /var/cache/apt/archives/ in a root-terminal with ‘apt install -d …’,
all these packages can be installed at once with the command
‘dpkg -i -R /var/cache/apt/archives/’
This way you could easily check /var/cache/apt/archives/ for systemd dependencies before you install.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Xaver.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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This way you could easily check /var/cache/apt/archives/ for systemd dependencies before you install.

Or you can just simply read the message printed in the terminal after apt-get dist-upgrade or apt-get install foo

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

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