- This topic has 410 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated Jan 26-1:03 pm by marcelocripe.
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Brian Masinick
Ft10 looks like a really cool thing to try and from reading here has had a lot of TLC work put into it. I’m interested in trying it out, but pbm. is that I normally use a very hacked & customized AfterStep as my WM along with a very customized antiX (but have other WMs installed too), & my own filemgr. Therefore, I fear not being fully able to remove it (and any added packages) if I decide to stick with my current setup. What would be real helpful to me would be a list of all configuration files that will be modified or added (so I can back ’em up & change ’em back or remove them)! In short, a full & clear “revert” spec.
Thanks!
Jim
Don’t be afraid to try it out; it is as easy as apt install ft10-transformation to install it, as easy as FT10 – Enable FT10 or Toggle Menu Templates to activate or configure it, and as easy as apt purge ft10-transformation to get rid of it.
I’ve found it handy to use, but I can still switch between it and other visual approaches, and also different window managers.
I have a lot of time put into my setups too and I won’t get rid of them, but I do plan to include using this so that 1) I know how to use it and can assist others and 2) to try something a bit different, just to have the choice, and 3) to support the hard work that PPC has put into this useful tool.
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Brian Masinick
ile
BobC
live preview window is
tint2 thumbnailAttachments:
Xunzi_23
For anyone worried about their customized install or even windoze installations may I politely remind about
a flagship feature of antiX.Just run live from a USB stick, any major changes you make can be kept by using the remaster tool.
Remaster maintains optimum speed, persist options are very useful but not for the impatient. :-).Costomize and hack at will, Your finished masterpiece will in most cases be portable, installable and always
very useful as a rescue system, and cause wide eyes from windoze users..Only caveat is for those unfortunate enough to have very old systems or those with USB 1 Ports.
On a system with USB 3 or 3.1 and a decent stick antiX will run just as fast as an installed system, sometimes
faster if the internal drive is not SSD or NVME.
caprea
I just created a snapshot of my system antiX21, tf10 is installed but is not activated (but was before now and then), also not during the creation of the snapshot, the default session is rox-icewm.
Created a live stick of the snapshot and now, when the live-stick is booted and I change per menu entry the desktop to zzz-fluxbox or fluxbox or rox-fluxbox the desktop changes to tf10 activated on fluxbox.Changing to the other desktops works, also min fluxbox.
Quite strange behaviour.Md5sum from the iso is checked, also from the live stick.Brian Masinick
Defect in the desired behavior.
Clearly this is incredible and incorrect.--
Brian Masinickcaprea
Otherwise the stick behaves correct. BobC mentioned in this thread before that he had worries to bring up issues that he might caused himself, just now I feel the same.
christophe
Just to see if it would work, since I like FT10, but I don’t want to lose (or hide) one of my 4 antiX window managers, I installed Openbox just to activate & run FT10 on top of it.
It seemed to work (it looked perfect), but after a logout & back in to openbox, FT10 wouldn’t start. (It was just stock openbox.) It seems like FT10 is only looking for icewm/jwm/fluxbox to run on top of.
Oh, well. It was worth a try…
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by christophe.
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
Hi caprea, you wrote now, when the live-stick is booted and I change per menu entry the desktop to zzz-fluxbox or fluxbox or rox-fluxbox the desktop changes to tf10 activated on fluxbox.
That reads like FT10 was active in flux but not in other desktop flavours. Each desktop is setup individualy so that would be desired behaviour.
@christophe, please be fair, pretty sure you can configure to start FT10 on openbox. The big but is, it is designed to work with the standard antiX WM setup, once you leave tht
ground you should expect some issues, big or small.caprea
so that would be desired behaviour.
In time I’m having a hard time to see what is desired normal behaviour.
If I activate on my to harddrive installed antiX21 the ft10 while I’m on the desktop eg rox-jwm.
and during that session change the desktop to rox-icewm, the ft10 is deactivated on rox-icewm.
But..if afterwards the desktop is changed to rox-fluxbox the ft10 is activated on fluxbox.
So fluxbox here on my system is acting different.
Someone can see this, too?After some time of changing desktops per the menu (while ft10 by me was only activated on rox-jwm), on fluxbox it got mixed up, see screenshot.
Might on my installed system, something is fishy,someone else should make some tests.
I will make a clean install of antiX22 to see how it behaves there,when i find time.Attachments:
Brian Masinick
The other day I was looking at some of the FT10 scripts in usr local bin and saw a few things that had settings for fluxbox.
Because of the behavior described in the past few posts, it’s possible that some of this code may unintentionally alter the desired behavior, particularly when switching between window managers.
We could use both PPC and a few of you who experiment with multiple window managers to figure out what happens when certain scripts are invoked.
It does appear that switching window managers under some conditions changes the intended logic of the tools. Because we had minimal testing, using several of the window managers, we have been lacking sufficient testing to reveal “edge” defects that are now being uncovered. Rather than give up, let’s improve this by rigorous testing and pull out anything else that may not function as intended in scenarios that have not been exercised sufficiently.
Thanks everyone!
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Brian MasinickBrian Masinick
My feedback: I’ve customized a few FT10 views to suit my own needs and interests, and now I’ve at least opened multiple window managers.
There may be some minor inconsistencies in when FT10 is automatically activated or not, though I did NOT encounter any of this in my own experiments.All I did in my experiments were the following:
1) A few days ago I started to experiment with the appearance of FT10, what I included on my personal task bar and the appearance of the clock.
I was able to modify whatever I wanted without issue.
2) Today, after reading about the inclusion or exclusion of FT10 in other window managers I did my own experiment.My starting point was that I had only tailored the FT10 settings while using IceWM.
Today I started Fluxbox; it did NOT originally come up in FT10 but I was able to turn it on and off (to me, the expected behavior). Also, it DID remember the custom settings I had created in IceWM, so the net effect is that the Tint2 toolbar is activated with the settings I created in another window manager.3) I continued with JWM; FT10 was OFF when I entered it, and turned on when I turned it on, and off when I turned it off. I tried different file managers with JWM and the behaviors were as I would expect and I was able to modify (or not modify), turn on and off as designed.
4) I then tried herbstluftwm and it also respected the configuration.
My conclusion in my own experiment is that the FT10 behavior and scenarios are dependent on the personal configurations we each create. In SOME scenarios, things MIGHT not work; in fairness, virtually any tool or environment will work or fail to work if the parameters in the design of the environment are modified in ways the designers did not envision, but the overall flexibility is good.
Any of us encountering difficulties should be careful to back up their preferred configurations and be prepared to re-create any scenarios that do not work as anticipated; otherwise it is extremely difficult to determine whether there are any built-in defects or if a specific user has created their own diverse and different implementation (along with any different or unexpected behavior).
As for me, every scenario I tried presented reasonable and predictable results.
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Brian MasinickBrian Masinick
Just to see if it would work, since I like FT10, but I don’t want to lose (or hide) one of my 4 antiX window managers, I installed Openbox just to activate & run FT10 on top of it.
It seemed to work (it looked perfect), but after a logout & back in to openbox, FT10 wouldn’t start. (It was just stock openbox.) It seems like FT10 is only looking for icewm/jwm/fluxbox to run on top of.
Oh, well. It was worth a try…
You’re right that FT10 is not as well integrated with Openbox as it is with the other window managers. Here is what I found out though:
When you want to start FT10, you can find it in the Settings/Preference menu category in Openbox and you can start it. However, what appears to happen is that tint2 presents a toolbar upon starting FT10, but then there is no explicit capability to close it; I found that opening a terminal window and typing in killall tint2 would get rid of the tint2 toolbar, so you’re right, the complete experience really isn’t there right now with Openbox.
I didn’t encounter this in other window managers; perhaps there are some features that have to be added to resolve this.
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Brian MasinickBrian Masinick
As far as the FT10 toolbar getting “mixed up”, obscured, or other behaviors that are unexpected, I have reason to believe these are caused by specific window and desktop settings. If I stick with the same setup, the settings are respected. I can enable and disable the toolbar everywhere except when using Openbox; it only recognizes the tint2 toolbar, which I can manually kill; the other window manager alternatives appear to behave as we’d expect, but you don’t automatically get the same toolbar invoked unless you run the same window manager across session instances. There may be ways to fix the desired settings in place, but doing so could have other consequences, so it’s best to use the tool that has been cleverly configured by PPC; if there’s interest maybe the Openbox window manager can be configured or coded to respond to the same commands that are honored in the other environments.
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Brian Masinickolsztyn
@ Brian Masinick:
May I respectfully ask why so much pressure is being exercised now to force FT10 modifications on everyone, whether one likes it or not? Why not give everyone choice and leave alone those who opt to not install FT10 modifications and use the four standard WMs?
Why not a completely separate FT10 WM in addition to the four in place? Let it be the default FT10 (Fifth) WM (I have no problem with such approach), but leave the existing four unmodified.
It is not even a question whether one likes FT10 modification or not, but embedding these modifications in every existing WM and forcing the users to ‘Activate’ or ‘Deactivate” them, is a wrong approach in my opinion and introducing additional pieces of code, which could be prone to all kinds of surprises in behavior.And, please anyone do not flame me that I do not like FT10 modifications. Someone already resorted to such flaming in this discussion. I appreciate the effort of PPC to FT10, but users should be free to chose whether they like modified WMs, not being forced to “Deactivate’ or deinstall.
So, with all the respect I disagree with your and some others’ approach.- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by olsztyn.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by olsztyn.
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameterschristophe
Why not a completely separate FT10 WM in addition to the four in place? Let it be the default FT10 (Fifth) WM (I have no problem with such approach), but leave the existing four unmodified.
Please. 🙂
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
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