antiX transformation pack – antiX FT 10

Forum Forums General Software antiX transformation pack – antiX FT 10

  • This topic has 506 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated Jun 1-8:18 pm by ile.
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  • #96631
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick

      Wow, that’s a surprising reaction to this thread.

      I looked back quite a few posts to see if anyone said anything other than to discuss their experiences with tint2 and FT10. I couldn’t find anything forcing anyone to do anything, though I have encouraged people myself to test and evaluate FT10.

      Some previous discussion has mentioned opinions about creating lightweight, simple tools to ease the transition to antiX for new users but at no time has there been any attempts to force anyone to do anything; afterall the reason that so many freely available systems exist is to offer choices instead of forcing solutions on people. Moreover antiX, despite a light footprint, offers as much choice as possible.

      I’m very sorry for any pressure or hints of pushing something on anyone. We’re all free to choose whatever options we prefer and even with FT10 it’s pretty easy to purge it from the system for anyone who tries it and finds it unfavorable for their own use.

      I hope that eases any concerns you or other people may have about investigating a slightly different toolbar look and feel; that’s all this is.

      --
      Brian Masinick

      #96632
      Moderator
      christophe

        @christophe, please be fair, pretty sure you can configure to start FT10 on openbox. The big but is, it is designed to work with the standard antiX WM setup, once you leave tht
        ground you should expect some issues, big or small.

        You are right. πŸ™‚ At first I tried looking at the scripts, but quickly got lost.

        But then:

        When you want to start FT10, you can find it in the Settings/Preference menu category in Openbox and you can start it. However, what appears to happen is that tint2 presents a toolbar upon starting FT10, but then there is no explicit capability to close it;

        That made me think about getting openbox to run whatever is in the FT10 script(s) to autostart each session.
        Because jgmenu isn’t the “real” root menu, it gets started by tint2 (only). And since, looking again at the scripts, I saw that tint2 gets started (only), I searched the ‘net on how to autostart programs on openbox. So I figured it out. Thanks for the “backhanded” encouragement (honestly)! πŸ™‚

        So if anyone wants to have his antiX cake and eat FT10, too πŸ™‚ then do this:
        1) Run in terminal sudo apt install openbox
        2) Switch to openbox window manager session
        3) Run in terminal ft10-toggle.sh
        (Or just run the menu item to enable it — that’s just the scripts’s name, if you run it from the terminal.)
        This starts up FT10.

        Then, to get it to startup each time you run openbox, do this:
        4) Copy the file /etc/xdg/openbox/autostart
        to ~/.config/openbox/autostart.
        5) Add
        tint2 &
        at the end of the file, and save it.

        Now FT10 will start up whenever you run openbox as your antiX desktop.

        confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

        #96633
        Moderator
        christophe

          If you go this route, you may want to install obconf as well. It’s the openbox configuration GUI tool. From this tool, I recommend to adjust the virtual desktops down to 1 (from the default of 4), so you don’t “lose” your windows as it scrolls the desktops if you move the touchpad/mouse inadvertantly. (Since FT10 only shows one desktop.)

          • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by christophe.

          confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

          #96634
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick

            Nice job figuring out what is needed for this to work properly with Openbox!

            Similar logic should be applicable but not identical for other environments.

            --
            Brian Masinick

            #96636
            Member
            ile

              obconf or obconf-qt is more compact.
              obmenu shows the disable ft10 menu item. ,, Oh, Okay, i see it does not work.
              tint2 can make a Button for that. suicide button. Done.
              Meant as a workaround. Humor seems off-topic right now. sorry at my humor attempt.

              • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by ile.
              • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by ile.
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              #96651
              Member
              Xunzi_23

                Having read pretty much every post made on the forum in last months nothing else expected

                Nobody is being forced or coerced to do anything.

                • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Xunzi_23.
                • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Xunzi_23.
                • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC. Reason: no attacks please
                #96673
                Member
                PPC

                  Hi, All

                  After a mini end of the year family time with my daughter, I’m back and happy to see that this thread has been very active. Because functionalit of FT10 is relevant to this thread, I’ll address some concerns that were addressed here this last days:

                  *The clock:
                  – The default FT10 toolbar settings window (that you can reach right clicking the +/- FT10 toolbar icon) was created by me, partly based in a very old brazilian script I found on-line, and partly built from scratch. Tint2 toolbar comes, out of the box with an extremely powerful GUI configuration editor- but because I thought it was a bit too powerful and complex for the average user that needs FT10 because it’s more in line with how other OS’s interfaces work- the very first time I used that GUI I nixed my tint2 configuration. So I created a tool that easily edits the most used toolbar settings (size, position, auto-hide, colors, fonts, hide/show some icons on the right side, and show 12h/24h clock). It never came to me that users would prefer seeing the seconds go by on the toolbar clock, or that they would prefer using some date format that does not make sense to me, and that I never personally saw being used… So my configuration GUI does not allow to set that… Fortunately, as mentioned previously, any option that FT10’s costume Settings menu does not allow users to change, the default tint2 GUI config application does- I’ll try to improve the my “Settings GUI”, because I still think that the default one is overkill for the average user…

                  * “Live previews” of running window – I love this feature, but I guess some users can find it annoying. I’ll try to add an option to switch it on/off, but it will be on be default. as far as I know, this preview never fails, but it has an annoying “bug”/”feature”- it shows the preview os the window as it currently is. If it has an over lapping window partly or totally hiding it, the preview will also be partly/totally blank!

                  *Changing desktops when running FT10
                  FT10 should only be activated on the Window Manager it was activated on (IceWM, JWM, Fluxbox). I did not add a menu entry to change “Desktops” because changing desktops can have strange results:
                  Ex: you activate FT10 on IceWM. You use the default antiX menu and select Fluxbox. The end result is a Fluxbox desktop but with Ft10’s toolbar drawn on top of the regular toolbar for that window manager (if they overlap- i.e – they are both on the bottom of the screen).
                  This strange result happens because switching “desktops” on the fly, using antiX’s default menu, keeps all applications running… And FT10’s toolbar is just a regular application, that is not closed, when you switch to another desktop).
                  Work around – If you change to a desktop that does not have FT10 activated on it, you may menu > run > “pkill tint2”
                  That will kill Close FT10’s toolbar. The side effect is, that if you want to use antiX0s menu to switch back to the “desktop” that is configured to use FT10, no toolbar will be show… The fastest way to “solve” that is: right click the desktop > run > “tint2”
                  That will summon the toolbar again.
                  The best way to switch between a window manager with FT10’s toolbar and other window manager without FT10 is using the log off menu, then, at the log in screen, press F1 to select the desired “desktop”. This is, does not work if your system automatically logs on (i.e.- you do not have to enter a password).
                  FT10 is not a Desktop Environment, although, when used with a very well developed Window Manager (like antiX’s IceWM) and with helper apps (like a composition and Dunst, for system notifications) it gets very close to it. My aim is that it’s all seamless for the average user, that does not know what a compositor or a window manager even is, but just wants a familiar system, or something with transparency, etc…

                  *Fluxbox code – I have to clean up some of FT10’s scripts code. It still has some legacy code, from back when I developed it to work only with Fluxbox. I haven’t touched that part of the code because it’s a “rabbit hole”. It can be very time consuming. But it’s not anything of relevance. FT10 includes many scripts, some massive, but the main scripts, that setup the Window Manager so FT10 runs smoothly simple do this:
                  – Edit the startup file and add “ft10-start” to it, it’s a tiny script that launches tint2, but first, checks for the existence of a file, that indicates if FT10 was already setup. If it was not, the script shows the activation window (this can be handy if creating an ISO with FT10 installed- the user can select, in live mode, if the default antiX settings should be used, or the “categories menu” or the “Tiles menu”)
                  – Edit the Window Manager configuration file to disable the system tray on the default toolbar (so FT10’s Tint2 toolbar can display the system tray)
                  – Disables/hides the default Window Manager’s toolbar (so only FT10’s Tint2 toolbar is displayed)

                  That’s it. that’s basically all the important changes the “activation” script does to your system. I choose to not even change the default File Manager to Zzzfm/spacefm because I wanted users to have full control of everything- FT10’s toolbar and menu icon’s for File Manager summon ZZZfm, but it does not impose ZZZfm as default File Manager.
                  NOTE: by default FT10’s activation window does offer to change the default zzzfm configuration to FT10’s and also disable volumeicon (because I created a non memory resident GUI way to set the volume – wich saves a couple of MB of RAM, when compared to running volumeicon and offer the same basic functionality)
                  There’s a “bug”, not a “feature”- if you disable FT10 the only permanent changes that it does not undo it’s restoring ZZZfm default settings and restoring Volumeicon.
                  Sorry about this- I tried to solve the volumeicon problem, but I messed up and ended up having to patch FT10 and sending anticapitalista a new version… Since then I’ve stayed away from that seemingly easily solved problem…

                  *On “why so much pressure is being exercised now to force FT10 modifications on everyone”
                  I think folks are reading this situation wrong – anticapitalista merely asked the community if the community felt antiX should come with FT10.
                  As the main creator of this package I made my position clear to everyone:
                  – I do think it’s a good idea that antiX Full comes with FT10 pre installed – because it adds not just a more “modern and familiar” interface, but also because it includes many small scripts that may make life simpler for some users (like easily mounting Samba Shared folders, Google Drive, get the weather, a GUI calendar/agenda, a world clock, a timer, etc). The aim of those small scripts is giving antiX the same basic functionality that you get with any smartphone today. Some of this functionalities only become active after the user selects to use them- then the script downloads the needed packages- so, if you do not want to use a functionality, it takes next to 0 disk space, only a tiny script and a .desktop file).
                  Please note that I said “FT10 pre installed” not “activated”. This means that users get exactly the same antix as they have today, plus some extra menu entries.
                  I do think that having an iso of antiX with FT10 pre installed and activated is a good idea. In it’s current form, FT10 should be configured in such a way as it always asked (when being run Live without persistence) what menu should be used.
                  I can add an initial option, “Stick with antiX’s default look and feel” – if the user clicked that, all they get is regular “old” antix desktop. If I add a timer to this window (example: if the user does not select any option in 10 or 20 seconds, just exit the script and start the default antiX desktop). With this possible change (kind of suggested by BobC), then we can please both crowds- the people that love FT10 and the people that love the current antiX’s look and feel- the only change would be a pop up window when you started the live system)

                  *Using FT10 with untested Window Managers –
                  Some notable users already tested, and reported back on this thread, how FT10 handles in Openbox,etc.
                  and yes- the toolbar part of FT10 (what most users see) is a toolbar that gives access to a menu. This toolbar is a heavily configured Tint2 toolbar (with some helper scripts to allow access to some funcionality and jgmenu to give access to customized menus). tint2 runs great in window managers without a default toolbar, such as Openbox – just add tint2 to the Window Manager start up file) and you’re set! To be on the safe side, also make sure that no tint2 toolbar is running, or you can end up with overlapping tint2 toolbars, taking up your RAM, if you reload your desktop (something like “pkill tint2 & sleep 2 && tint2 &”)…

                  * I’ll have to fix debinstaller’s .desktop file, as per anticapitalista’s recommendation, and also probably change the script’s name, because MX is creating a package with the same functionality and a similar name- probably antiX will adopt that “deb installer” program in the future…

                  P.

                  • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
                  • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
                  #96676
                  Moderator
                  caprea

                    Hi PPC and thanks,

                    Because functionality of FT10 is relevant to this thread

                    yes and because of that, discussions about the pros and cons should not take place here.It is referred to the other thread for this
                    https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/future-antix-versions-with-ft10-as-default/

                    personal insults etc. are not welcome anyway.

                    Lets support PPC to fine-tune ft10, that’s the point of this thread.

                    Ex: you activate FT10 on IceWM. You use the default antiX menu and select Fluxbox. The end result is a Fluxbox desktop but with Ft10’s toolbar drawn on top of the regular toolbar for that window manager (if they overlap- i.e – they are both on the bottom of the screen)

                    This is exactly what I have seen and I was a little worried that no one else mentioned it, it’s might an important point in considering how ft10 will be integrated into antiX.For a pleasant user experience, such “what’s this” moments should be avoided.
                    (Also it seems that fluxbox now, as soon as I activate ft10 on it, shows this double toolbar)

                    I’m glad you can confirm my experiences about switching desktops, I had a feeling something was wrong with my system because other users here said they didn’t have these problems.This saves me from making a clean install.

                    It would be nice if the live previews of running windows also have the possibility to be turned off.

                    I’m not a friend of the idea of another iso, there are already enough new users who dont know which iso to download.And who should then decide about the recommendations. A message (warning) during activation of ft10, that there may be problems switching desktops via the menu, or whatever, should be enough.
                    It kind of would split the users in two groups IMO.
                    Thanks so far

                    • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by caprea.
                    • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by caprea.
                    #96677
                    Moderator
                    Brian Masinick

                      Welcome back PPC. I’m happy to see your updates, recognition of a few details that could use a few minor adjustments, and your explanation of what the effort is all about. Thank you for all your efforts and communication.

                      --
                      Brian Masinick

                      #96678
                      Member
                      olsztyn

                        Humor seems off-topic right now. sorry at my humor attempt.

                        Thanks for the humor. Greatly appreciated, particularly in environment of scarcity of humor for the fear of reprisal. When humor is forbidden then humanity is lost.

                        Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                        http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                        #96680
                        Member
                        olsztyn

                          disallowed, edited out of here, too.

                          • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.
                          • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by BobC.

                          Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                          http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                          #96685
                          Moderator
                          caprea

                            Xunzi_23 and olsztyn ,without necessarily resorting to drastic measures here now, you are urged to continue your annoying dispute in private messages.

                            #96686
                            Member
                            PPC

                              Dear Olsztyn and Xunzi_23- I’m not a moderator here, but I’m the Original Poster of this thread, so please allow me to present my opinion:

                              -We are all free to present our opinions here in the forum ( as long as we do not insult anyone). Saying that someone is “tiring” may even be considered as a derogatory term, I think it’s not considered an insult- I’m but a native English speaker, anyone that is, please, correct me if I’m wrong on that assumption- and I don’t consider that expression to be a “personal attack”. Even so, please, dear Xunzi_23, I ask you to present a bit more “constructive critic” in your posts on this thread. That would avoid taking the attention from the matter on the center of this thread- make FT10 the best possible package it can be, no matter if it’s included by default in antiX or not, right? πŸ™‚
                              -We can support any view we want, even those expressed by users that were banned. I even agreed with somethings that users that were banned said, but, to avoid any conflict, I choose not to reply to a particular user that is currently banned. We do not have to like each other here, but we do have to live together on this forum and respect each other!
                              – And I don’t think that you can say the moderators have a “strategy”, other than enforce forum rules – anticapitalista sets the “strategy” here. All we can do is present our opinions, and wait for his decision. He kindly (in what I assume was an effort to try to make future antiX versions more user friendly) asked if FT10 should be included in antiX.

                              I would change many default antiX settings and even include some extra packages (like debinstaller, a compositor, skippy-xd, and maybe my script to connect to samba shared folders and it’s tiny dependencies). I suggest those changes all the time, not for myself (advanced users can modify antiX to look any way they want and install anything they want), but because I think having a more user friendly OS would only benefit us all- and no major User Interface change is needed for that to happen. If users think: “antiX is fine as it is”, I partly agree with them, if users think “antiX needs some changes” I also partly agree with them… Both opinions have their merits. I don’t mind recognizing that opinions other than mine are perfectly valid.

                              -Also, sorry, I did not realize any attempt at humor on this thread – I usually like humor, and mine is usually dark. Some of my posts even have (I hope) humorous references to pop culture movies and books… I can see how having a “kill switch” on a toolbar can both be practical and also kind of a gag, for example…

                              P.

                              • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
                              #96690
                              Moderator
                              Brian Masinick

                                Remember that PPC has offered this tool as a convenience, and also as an aide for new users. We’ve repeatedly read that this will not be the default; it’s not now, and it’s not likely to become a default. It is currently available in the antiX repository, and based on discussions and testing here, it’s likely to be updated and improved,

                                I’ve started testing FT10 over the past few days; I tried it in an early “proof of concept” version and it looked interesting and useful. The current implementation has been further improved, and there are likely to be additional improvements. Keep in mind that both PPC and anticapitalista have stated that this software will NOT be a default selection, but we do already have it available; all that has been requested is that it also be considered to be included in the Full release; note that “included” does NOT mean that it is enabled as a default; it is proposed to be available; that’s not been decided upon either. Everything in this and other topics is a discussion to present ideas.

                                What is included in any release is a decision to be ultimately decided by anticapitalista; most people do understand this; PPC does, and so do our administrators and moderators.

                                --
                                Brian Masinick

                                #96692
                                Member
                                PPC

                                  Tiny addition to be soon implemented into Ft10’s toolbar manager:

                                  Toogle toolbar’s window previews on/off“: Please create a text file called “tint2-toggle-toolbar-previews.sh” and open it for edition (with geany, for example). Paste the code below inside the file, save it and then make it executable. Run the file from the File Manager. The “window previews” should instantly be toggled on/off (running the script changes this option from on to off or off to on every time it’s run- and restarts tint2 to implement the change). Please test this script – it *should* work fine.
                                  Creating a script to manage time settings is more complex, so it will take more time (I’m thinking of using a selection menu will all available time formats, similar to the window that allows users to select the toolbar’s position, and also, maybe a “checkbox” to display seconds”. Ideally, the main window of the Toolbar configuration GUI should also have a “show clock” option – to toggle showing the clock on and off). Like I said, it’s easy to adapt my previous scripts to toggle on and off some setting in tint2’s config file. It’s more complex to edit stuff like time formats…

                                  Code:

                                  #!/bin/bash
                                  # Small script to toogle tint2 toolbar window previews on/off
                                  ###
                                  # The script was created by PPC
                                  original_task_thumbnail=$(egrep "^task_thumbnail =" ~/.config/tint2/tint2rc | cut -d'=' -f2)
                                  SUB='0'
                                  if [[ "$original_task_thumbnail" == *"$SUB"* ]]; then
                                    seleccao="1"
                                    else 
                                    seleccao="0"
                                  fi
                                  sed -i "/^task_thumbnail =/s/$original_task_thumbnail/ $seleccao/g" ~/.config/tint2/tint2rc
                                  # restart tint2
                                  	killall -9 tint2
                                  	nohup tint2 &
                                  	exit
                                  • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by PPC.
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