[SOLVED]: Boot-up fails with antiX kernel series 5 – why?

[Member mikey777]

I have a bit of a puzzler here – I’m wondering if someone can offer an explanation, or even a solution …

I have a 14-year-old legacy laptop (Asus X71Q) on which I have antiX21 (base+LXDE). It will work on series 4 antiX kernels, but not with antiX kernel 5.10, the laptop booting to a blank screen, with the cursor flashing indefinitely in the top left corner.

In contrast to this, if I run LXLE Focal or Lite 6.0 on the same laptop (both Ubuntu-based), which come prepackaged with kernels 5.4 and 5.15 respectively, the laptop boots normally to either distro.

What’s going on here – why won’t antiX boot with the kernel 5, unlike the Ubuntu distros?

• This topic was modified 8 months, 4 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This topic was modified 8 months, 4 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This topic was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Just guessing, but it *might* be that those Ubuntu based distros are using a newer intel-microcode version.

Have you tried the 5.10 Debian kernel?

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member mikey777]

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anticapitalista wrote:

Just guessing, but it *might* be that those Ubuntu based distros are using a newer intel-microcode version.
Have you tried the 5.10 Debian kernel?

Thanks anticapitalista – based on what you said I installed linux-image-5.10.0-16-amd64 – Linux 5.10 for 64-bit PCs (signed) from ‘all kernels’ in cli-aptiX – I assume this is the Debian kernel you mentioned. However, it failed to boot as with antiX kernel 5.10.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Member mikey777]

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anticapitalista wrote:

Just guessing, but it *might* be that those Ubuntu based distros are using a newer intel-microcode version

dpkg –list intel-microcode gives the following terminal output for antiX vs. the two Ubuntu-based distros (all are amd64 versions):
antiX .. 3.20220510.1~deb11u1
LXLE … 3.20220510.0ubuntu0.20.04.1
Lite ….. 3.20220510.0ubuntu0.22.04.1

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Member ModdIt]

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Have seen both the indefinite cursor and same with a green screen full of errors on failed boot.

Is this from a live USB stick
if installed
Have you already tried reinstalling the bootloader

On live, the device I am using now will only boot an older kernel, newer one and old BIOS have a fight.
Kernel loses. I was unable/will not waste the time to try and figure out why.

As the device runs fine with the vunerability patched antiX 4.19.22 kernel I use it.
Unless a newer kernel is needed to support specific hardware there is no need to install one.

If feeling adventurous, you could also build a custom kernel on the device.
https://linuxconfig.org/building-kernels-the-debian-way
offers a pretty good howto for starters.

Should you go that way please open a detailed, build custom kernel thread so others can more easily find and follow.
I may well join in with the experiment, as a learning experience and in the process maybe get latest for better NVME
support on very new devices.

You may want to look at kernel config for the distros you have found will boot for clues/differences.

I must add, I have not built a kernel for debian based distro, on arch based it was not so difficult, in those
days this now 12 year old device was latest hardware and not yet fully supported by a distro kernel. Archers
reportedly built custom kernels before breakfast and were very helpful. I posted as a first timer giving full details
of where I ran in to difficulty despite following howtos and hints..

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by ModdIt.

[Member mikey777]

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ModdIt wrote:

Is this from a live USB stick

Thanks for your reply, Moddit. No, it’s not a live USB stick – it’s a permanent install to the laptop’s internal SSD.

If feeling adventurous, you could also build a custom kernel on the device.

Unfortunately, this is outside my computing skills base, otherwise it’s a good idea and might be worth a go. I’m not an advanced-level user. Also, unfortunately, I don’t have enough time to learn what’s needed to pursue this route.

Unless a newer kernel is needed to support specific hardware there is no need to install one.

I quite agree. It works well with the latest antiX kernel update for 4.9, and so therefore there is no need to change to series 5, at least for now. The question posed by this thread only occurred when I observed that the series 5 kernels will work for Ubuntu-based distros running on this machine, but not for antiX.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Member calciumsodium]

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Hi @mikey777,

Perhaps you can give the trisquel linux libre kernel a try. The trisquel kernel is based on Ubuntu. The trisquel kernel does work on an antiX system. There are two flavors for each trisquel kernel, generic and low latency. I have only tried the generic.

https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/installing-the-linux-libre-x64-kernel/

There is a little bit of a learning curve. But I am glad I stuck with it. Many of my antiX systems now have the libre kernels, either the gnu libre kernel or the trisquel libre kernel.

$ inxi -b
System:
  Host: jakersfan Kernel: 5.4.0-121-generic arch: x86_64 bits: 64
    Desktop: IceWM v: 2.6.0
    Distro: antiX-concept-21-b1.1_x64-full Kaze no denwa 20 July 2021

[Member mikey777]

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calciumsodium wrote:

Hi @mikey777,
Perhaps you can give the trisquel linux libre kernel a try. The trisquel kernel is based on Ubuntu. The trisquel kernel does work on an antiX system …

Thanks calciumsodium, this looks very useful – I had a quick read through the link you gave. It’s looks like something I’ll do on my spare laptop, so if I mess up then nothing is lost. I’ll let you know here how I get on, unless I find an alternative solution …

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi mikey777,

I have experienced the reverse problem where an antiX kernel worked and a similar version of a debian kernel lacked functionality.

Apparently, kernels are complicated enough that incompatibilities crop up not infrequently.

The kernel developers have produced a tool – kdump – which enables a user to collect crash dumps, which might enable you or one of the more knowledgeable members (not me) to identify what the problem is.

The page describing the tool and how to use it is located at: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/kdump/kdump.html

Even if you don’t use this, I figure others might try it out.

stevesr0

[Member mikey777]

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Thanks stevesr0.

@anticapitalista
Instead of antiX or Debian kernel 5.10, I tried 5.15, taken again from the ‘all kernels’ section of cli-aptiX.
It worked, and these are the details of that kernel:

 uname -a
Linux X71Q 5.15.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.15.15-2~bpo11+1 (2022-02-03) x86_64 GNU/Linux

This thread has therefore now been solved.

Just for the record, I compared idle RAM consumption (following 2 minutes stabilization) of kernel 5.15 with some of the older ones I’d been using:
253MB 5.15 (the above Debian kernel) ..supported till October 2023
196MB 4.9.0-294-antix.1-amd64-smp … supported till January 2023
178MB 4.4.0-296-antix.1-amd64-smp ….now unsupported

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Have you tried this boot parameter on an antiX 5.10 kernel?

intel_iommu=off

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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@mikey777

Can you try these debs for me and see if they fix the problem.

https://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/Testing/

Download them to a folder, go to that folder and type

dpkg -i *.deb

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member mikey777]

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anticapitalista wrote:

@mikey777
Can you try these debs for me …

The problem appears to be hardware specific: I tested both 5.10 versions 136 (the debs from your links) and 104 (from cli-aptiX) on two laptops listed in my ‘signature’ below, i.e:
Asus X71Q ……….. neither version work, laptop booting to blank screen and endlessly flashing cursor in top LHS corner
Packard-Bell …….. both versions work, laptop booting normally

So, for the Asus, I’m going to try intel_iommu-off command you suggested. For this to work, should I change the /etc/default/grub line
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""
to the following:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="iommu-off"

Many sincere thanks anticapitalista, for your continued support which is much appreciated.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="intel_iommu=off"

is what I would try.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member mikey777]

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anticapitalista wrote:

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="intel_iommu=off"
is what I would try.

I replaced “splash” with “intel_iommu=off” in the above GRUB CMDLINE, for the Asus laptop.
After updating grub, I rebooted: boot-up began, i.e. I wasn’t merely left with a blank screen & flashing cursor, but it got stuck at the following lines of script with each of the two antix kernel 5.10 versions. I have no idea what this script means:

version 136

 28
[          1.454739 scsi host 6: pata_legacy
[          1.454880] ata7: PATA max PIO4 cmd 0x1f0 ct1 0x3f6 irq 14

version 104

 28
[         1.414212] scsi host6: pata_legacy
[         1.414364] ata7: PATA max PIO4 cmd 0x1f0 ct1 0x3f6 irq 14

Luckily, booting proceeded normally with Debian kernel 5.15 (already installed), so I was able to easily return to the grub file and change the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT line back to what it was.

Anticapitalista, was there a reason you suggested me moving away from Debian kernel 5.15, apart from the EOL being next year. To save you scrolling back, the kernel designation given by uname -a was:
Linux X71Q 5.15.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.15.15-2~bpo11+1 (2022-02-03) x86_64 GNU/Linux

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by mikey777.

▪ 32-bit antix19.4-core+LXDE installed on :
- (2011) Samsung NP-N145 Plus (JP04UK) – single-core CPU Intel Atom N455@1.66GHz, 2GB RAM, integrated graphics.
▪ 64-bit antix21-base+LXDE installed on:
- (2008) Asus X71Q (7SC002) – dual CPU Intel T3200@2.0GHz, 4GB RAM. Graphics: Intel Mobile 4 Series, integrated graphics
- (2007) Packard Bell Easynote MX37 (ALP-Ajax C3) – dual CPU Intel T2310@1.46GHz, 2GB RAM. Graphics: Silicon Integrated Systems.

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