Can I use old routers to extend my domestic wireless lan?

[Member roland]

I have at least 2 old/not very old routers/ethernet switches that were made obsolete when I changed to an optic fibre line from the service provider.

The fact that they are only 2.4ghz doesn’t bother me unduly.

Is there any way I can use these to extend the range of my wlan? I am particularly interested in doing away with the cable connection to my HP4100N laser printer, and making it available to every pc not just one.

[Member madibi]

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yes you can!
Of course it depends on brand and model of your routers.

There are various possibilities:

ONLY ONE LAN
at home I have the router (A) 192.168.1.1, the 2nd one (B) 192.168.1.2 linked via ethernet and the 3rd one (C) 192.168.1.3 is located 2 floors down, linked via wifi.
In this case the lan is only one.

It is important that your routers may have the possibility to act as repeater if you want to connect them via wifi. (Please note that the WDS of the brand FTITZ! is not compatible to the one of other brands)

The DHCP should be active only in A. In B and C must be de-activated.

A, B and C should have the same lan-name and it is better that they are on different channels (or the channel can be set to auto).

You can link your printer where you prefer, and it is visible from every pc connected to the lan, both eth and wifi.

2 OR MORE NETWORK TRUNKS
You should connect via eth a network port of A with the WAN port of B.
In this case A may be 192.168.1.1
and B may be: 192.168.0.1 In this case DHCP must be active on B

good luck !
m

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by madibi.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by madibi.

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi roland,

madibi’s comments relate directly to how to use additional routers to extend the wifi range for any wifi capable devices. So if your printer is wifi capable, his instructions might be all you need.

My oldish printer is network capable but only thru ethernet. So I connected it directly to my router, to make it available to all network attached computers.

(I also connected a secondary router via ethernet to extend both my wifi and ethernet range.)

stevesr0

[Member afghan]

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I used to have some old wifi routers that can be configured to either AP or Client mode. AP mode is your regular Access Point mode where you can have devices connect it; Client mode is were it is configured to connect as a wireless client to another AP.

Up until a few years ago I used client modes to connect old printers with ethernet ports only to make them accessible wirelessly; and also to a media streaming device that only had an ethernet port, which was surprisingly good enough for watching video at 1080p.

I remember one of them was a LinkSys WRT54G modified with DD-WRT, and some D-Links too. Some of these are almost 20 years old and still works well.

Some not too old ones have Repeater modes. I’ve used this to boost wifi signal. It really depends on what brand/model routers you have and if hacking the firmware is an option for you.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by afghan.

Beware of people who knows nothing; they are the ones that won't know that they know nothing.

[Member madibi]

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roland wrote:

I am particularly interested in doing away with the cable connection to my HP4100N laser printer, and making it available to every pc not just one.

I did a brief research on your printer.
The spech sheet concerning the network connectivity reports as follow:

network connectivity
hp LaserJet 4100 printers:
• Bidirectional IEEE 1284-compliant parallel interface
• Two open EIO expansion slots for optional HP JetDirect 610N (EIO) Internal Print
Servers for Ethernet 10BaseT, 10Base2, 100BaseTX, LocalTalk and Token Ring
networks
• Fast Infrared port for optional infrared receiver
hp LaserJet 4100n, 4100tn, and 4100dtn printers:
• HP JetDirect 610N (EIO) Internal Print Server for Ethernet 10/100 Base-TX Fast
Ethernet network environments
• Fast Infrared port and receiver (optional)
• Bidirectional IEEE 1284-compliant parallel interface
• One open EIO expansion slot for optional HP and third-party accessories.
• HP JetSend enabled
• Automatic switching between languages and ports
• HP Web JetAdmin requires installation on one of the following network servers:
Microsoft Windows NT, IBM OS/2 Warp, HP-UX or Solaris
• HP JetDirect 610N (EIO) Internal Print Servers support all major network operating
systems and provide flash memory for future upgrades

So it should be better to know exactly which is the cable that connects your printer to your pc (I suppose the parallel – if you have the eth there is no prob, in fact you can plug in it directly in the network switch and tell to the others pc to connect to the printer).

In case your printer can’t be connected directly to the lan, nor via eth or via wifi, as extrema ratio in order to share the printer, you can let the cables, routers and switches exactly as they are now and only change the settings of the cups function on your pc, telling to your cups that you want to share the printer. The only negative aspect of the latter solution is that to print from any PC on the network, the PC to which the printer is connected must be switched on.

Good luck
m

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by madibi.

[Member roland]

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Thanks very much for all these responses with the interesting possibilities offered.

The 2 router/switches I have available to try are:-

Linksys Wireless-G Home Gateway model no WAG354G, which is a very small modern-looking silver coloured rectangular box
Thomson TG585 v7 a larger commercial-looking rectangular box with a button to record the Mac address of newly connected devices.

I have all the hardware and firmware parameters (I think) to enable me to configure these as suggested.

I plan to use one to extend my wlan to the upper floor and another to enable the printer to be accessed and shared downstairs and upstairs.

The cable adapter I bought to get the printer working is a short parallel to usb cable, the parallel socket on the printer being one of the old Centronics sockets much preferred for printers years ago, maybe because of the tougher connector pins and the wire retaining clips.

The snag if any is with the building, the Spanish use large quantities of concrete and masonry in building and the reach of any wlan is severely restricted as a consequence.

I’ll get busy on this and will report back, thanks again.

[Member olsztyn]

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roland wrote:

The cable adapter I bought to get the printer working is a short parallel to usb cable, the parallel socket on the printer being one of the old Centronics sockets much preferred for printers years ago, maybe because of the tougher connector pins and the wire retaining clips.

This way of connecting your printer to network seems far from optimal. Your printer is HP 4100N. The ‘N’ at the end means ‘Network’. In the back of this printer on the left side you should see a JetDirect card installed with two turned by hand screws. In the middle there is an ethernet port. You just connect an ethernet wire to that port and the other end to router switch.
In printer configuration in antiX control Center you set this printer to JetDirect socket connection.
This is a nice (although monochrome) laser printer used to be popular in corporations, expensive. I used to use it at work. At home all my printers are network printers connected to switch, one is HP 4550N, color laser. This way any laptop around the house can print.
This is exactly what @madibi was explaining, just expanding some details…

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by olsztyn.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by olsztyn.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
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[Member roland]

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This printer is an old HP 4100N unit. The following copied from the diagnostic printout which is too pale to scan.

HP jetdirect J3111A date of manufacture 02/1999
series no NLCGC14295 firmware code 20001206 01.009.0
140530 pages printed since last service
4 x dimm slots 16mb 32mb + 2 empty
storage capacity in disk ram 13mb
RJ45 socket centronics parallel socket one other socket
Ip address 192.168.1.11 subnet mask 255.255.255.0 IP def pasarela (?) 192.168.1.1
hardware lan address 0010830AACFD
Appletalk ready Appletalk name HP laserjet 4
IPX/SPX deactivated DLC/LLC deactivated

I think the parallel to usb connection with the adapter cable is reducing parallel to serial connection, as prints take a long time to process especially complex pdf documents and transmit to the printer, but then after quite a noisy gestation the quality is fair to good. This pc is very fast so the holdup I think is elsewhere.

I had a new toner and drum given with this printer, which my son said never gave a moments trouble in the several years he was using it at work, only its age caused it to be struck off the books and made available to him gratis as an employee.

I attach photos of the back where the cables connect. Anything that you can tell me about it, and how to configure it as a network printer will be most welcome. I believe this model was made until quite recently but changes were made along the way. The worst aspect is the software is installed in Spanish language, I would change that to English if I could but I think it will need a new bios or something similar, language does not appear as an option in the button menu.

Attachments:

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   DSC02829a-scaled.jpg
   

[Member madibi]

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roland wrote:

RJ45 socket centronics parallel socket one other socket

So you can probably connect your printer to the switch with the ethernet cable. Pls don’t forget that your printer is 23 years old and electronic never used (e.g. some ports) may be broken.

roland wrote:

Ip address 192.168.1.11 subnet mask 255.255.255.0 IP

This is your FIXED ip address. This means that when you configure your router, let this address outside from the DHCP range: at home, the range of my dhcp is usually 192.168.1.100 – 192.168.1.200. You can do the same if you have less than 101 items linked to your lan.

In case your router has another family of addresses, I should change the router address to 192.168.1.1
please remember that you have to change also the ip of the other 2 routers: they must be fixed addresses and outside the DHCP range (ex 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3) and de-activate DHCP on those 2.

If the Thomson TG585 v7 can be used as repeater, I should connect it via wifi to the router.
The Linksys Wireless-G Home Gateway model no WAG354G, seems to be too old to be connected via wifi to a new router. I gave a look at the tech spec and couldn’t find the WPS with it.

As far as setting the printers is concerned, you can follow the hints by @olsztyn that are really clear. When you search for a printer using cups, please remember to search for “network printers”, and in case your lan is a samba one, under the samba section.

Another way that I like very much to install hp printers (the only brand that I like to use with linux) is using the hplips utility, that does all the job for you (yes, I am lazy). In this latter case, before starting the procedure, it should be better to have the root account already active.

Good luck!
m

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by madibi.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by madibi.

[Member olsztyn]

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roland wrote:

I think the parallel to usb connection with the adapter cable is reducing parallel to serial connection, as prints take a long time to process especially complex pdf documents and transmit to the printer, but then after quite a noisy gestation the quality is fair to good.

I suggest forget the parallel port (currently connected). This is a very old way of connecting printers which did not have network capability. Your printer is an excellent network model with JetDirect card seen in the upper left. The most important and most useful port is RJ45 network port of that JetDirect card. You can disregard the Token Ring coax port, AppleTalk and (of course) the parallel port.
This HP 4100N is an excellent quality laser printer and never too old. It runs forever, needs just minor maintenance. I have a number HP of printers of similar age and older and all still work fine:
– HP Color LaserJet 4550
– HP Color LaserJet 4500 (three)
– HP LaserJet 4 (much older)
– HP LaserJet 5 (much older)
– Also Xerox Phaser 3635 (This one is newer than HP ones)

Having worked in corporate environment for a long time I do appreciate quality of those old printers. Their being old is actually an advantage not only from quality perspective but also their popularity in larger companies made now the toner and drums very cheap and easy to purchase on eBay or equivalent.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
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[Member roland]

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Thanks to all you helpful contributors,

I now understand (more or less) how I need to configure these old routers and link in the printer via the RJ45 socket with an ethernet cable to the slave router.

I plan to site one router fairly near the printer so I can connect it with an ethernet cable, this router will be a wlan extension network with the same network name but on a different channel.

I have never needed to change the main router so will need to discover the fixed IP address by trial and error.

This introduces another headache, I have no pc here with an ethernet card onboard, so I cannot plug any router into it via an ethernet cable, and my past attempts to make router changes via wlan have always resulted in inability to get connected. But I have a more elderly pc in Almeria city which I think has such a card installed, when I can fetch it back here, and it has antiX 19 installed also.

Could I reach the slave router to make these changes by connecting it via an ethernet cable to the main router which I then connect via the wlan, or will the system get confused over which router I am trying to make changes to, or not see the slave router at all?

Thanks again friends.

[Member madibi]

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little résumé and others tips (according to your project to have 2 repeaters at home)

1. you need at least 2 eth cables,
2. the 1st one to connect your main router to the oldest router you have, the 2nd one to connect the oldest router (slave) to the printer. In reality this is useful only if the oldest router covers an area in your house not covered from the main one. Otherwise a long eth cable is enough (from main router to the printer);
3. detailed instructions on how to change the router’s parameters (using wifi):
3.1 note on a paper the factory ip-address of the 2 router you want to manipulate, (+ the factory lan name, but this is not a prob)
3.2 to change the parameters a router you should be linked to it’s wifi, then with a navigator you write the ip address in the address bar, insert the user id and pw, (once they were “admin” admin”) and change what you want.
3.2.1 In a first moment you change only the fixed ip of the router from 192.169.xxx.yyy to 192.169.1.2 (or .3 for the other one) and let the dhcp on and don’t change the lan name.
3.2.2 now you test if the new fixed ip is “seen” from your pc (please note that you have to re-do the procedure to link to the lan of the router where you are changing the parameters)
3.2.3 now you change the lan name, according to the name that you want at home, taking care to use another channell;
3.2.4 (facultative) you can test as per 3.2.2
3.2.5 now you switch to off the dhcp on the slave router, you connect it to the main one (by cable or wifi) et voilà.
In case something goes wrong in this procedure you only need to reset the router to the factory settings and retry
4. paste on the back of the routers the new ip address 🙂

In case the newest slave router does’t have the repeater function, you can verify if that brand/model is supported by DD-WRT and consider to change the firmware. In fact that function is often hidden for marketing reasons, also if the tech possibility of having that function already exists.

roland wrote:

I have never needed to change the main router so will need to discover the fixed IP address by trial and error.

you can google with your brand/model + “manual” and you can get all the info you need. Usually the fixed IP-address in in the “first setup” chapter

roland wrote:

this router will be a wlan extension network with the same network name

NOT wlan, BETTER a net port (the yellow one), otherwise you introduce other problems (sub-lans, etc). And yes, in this case that old router is used only as a switch.

roland wrote:

Could I reach the slave router to make these changes by connecting it via an ethernet cable to the main router which I then connect via the wlan, or will the system get confused over which router I am trying to make changes to, or not see the slave router at all

you should do all the changes one router a time and only at the end of the tale connecting them in an unique lan.

good luck

m

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EDIT
I answered to you in the thread
https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/hp-laserjet-4100n-not-printing/

I think that the printer we are talking about in this thread is the one that you described in that thread: so I guess that now it works, but I never knew that.

Can you please write SOLVED to that thread and write a brief explication on which was the solution of your problem?
That would be nice for the future generations that will have the similar issues.

Thanks for understanding, here we are all volunteers and we try to make life easier for each other

[Member roland]

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I cannot use an ethernet cable longer than a yard or two in this house, it’s all solid masonry and concrete impossible to drill through or attach clips for cable routing. The lady of the house would strongly object.

The pc and printer are on the 1st floor computer room almost at the limit of the domestic wlan reach, the main router is where the optic fibre line enters the house on the ground floor by a side doorway. For this reason I shall have to place a slave router half way between, on a staircase mezzanine where there are shelves.

The other place where I have a pc is in a garden chalet used in cold winter months, again constructed from 50 cu.m. of solid reinforced concrete, and I think a slave router will be required between this location and the main router, if possible.

I am fairly confident now that can set up these routers using a short ethernet connection to an old pc I have which has an ethernet card and socket, placed temporarily near the main router.

I have now discovered the fixed IP addresses of both proposed slave routers from documentation made while they were in use years ago. The Thomson has 192.168.1.254, username admin, password password, the linksys has 192.168.1.1, username admin, password admin.

I am short of a 12v 2000ma power supply with correct diameter plug for the Thomson, which I must have re-used elsewhere.

I am on the case, although things never move very fast in Las Negras, Espana! I shall respond again when I have suitable progress to report.

Thanks again for all you contributors, that’s the beauty of antiX, plenty of help always forthcoming!

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