Confusing installation on multiple partitioned drive

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-21/22 “Grup Yorum” Confusing installation on multiple partitioned drive

  • This topic has 21 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated Nov 15-11:52 pm by BobC.
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  • #70681
    Member
    punranger

      Hi,

      I have tried out antiX 21 on some old laptops, and I wish to thank the team for the great work. ConnMan works much better for me in 21 than in 19, which is a big enough improvement alone to warrant the update.

      Now, to a suggestion for improvement. Previously, I have installed antiX as a single OS on the whole drive. Now, for the first time, I wanted to install antiX on a separate partition, in my case sda1, alongside another distro on sda3. I have to say that the interface for doing this was very confusing. I eventually settled on setting up sda1 as root, while leaving the other partitions alone, but it was nervewracking, as the user instructions were minimal. For someone without intimate knowledge of the differences between choosing root, home and the other options, my prime worry was what would happen to the other partitions. Fortunately, everything went OK, but for someone who is primarily interested in reviving old hardware as a USER, I much preferred the way this was done in for example Linux Mint, where you got a common sense message that the distro would be installed on the selected partition, and that other OS’es on other partitions would be left alone, and you would get a GRUB menu on boot. I very much appreciate all the steps taken to make antiX as lightweight as possible, as well as all the customization options for expert users, but the installer should be understandable for first time Linux users who are doing the install for the first time.

      antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

      #70682
      Member
      PPC

        Yes, you are not the first user to complain about the partition section of the installer being much more complex…
        I’ve not installed antiX 21 (I’ve been testing it live in Virtual Box, I’m not an early adopter- I think that in every OS there’s always some littles touches that the dev team has to make, even after the final release, if there isn’t a feature that I need from the latest version, I tend to wait a while before upgrading).
        Basically, the installer now includes a partition manager, and does not rely on external apps for that- unfortunaly, our devs and great on getting new features and use low system resources, not so much in creating fancy User Intefaces…
        You can, if you took detailed notes on how you did your dual boot install, share them here, to spare other users from all the trouble that you went trough… Maybe we can do a forum sticky post, detailing how do it!

        P.

        #70683
        Member
        ModdIt

          Not so much the interface as such is confusing, newly created partitions shown sort of backwards
          and I had issue trying to creat a grub efi setup. Getting warning message I should create a grub/efi
          partition. No selection for that in dropdown.
          For now just did an automated install without separate home, I dislike that personaly.
          Planning to do the Partitions with GParted then install again on a test box , is more familiar to me.

          A decent howto would I am sure be a big helper.

          #70687
          Forum Admin
          anticapitalista

            A decent howto would I am sure be a big helper.

            Installing MX/antiX-21 with custom partition options

            Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

            antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

            #70688
            Member
            punranger

              A decent howto would I am sure be a big helper.

              Installing MX/antiX-21 with custom partition options

              Thank you, I appreciate it. But I think the goal for an installation procedure is that it should be self-explanatory and self-contained. As it is, the procedure requires a lot of previous knowledge, and thus sets the bar higher for conversion to antiX. (And what a great liberating potential antiX has!) There’s a kind of paradox that a distro that requires so little of its hardware, requires so much of its users at this critical point, considering that the rest of the setup was a breeze.

              antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

              #70689
              Member
              ModdIt

                Just watched the Video, Seems dolfin felt the same way I did,
                Saying Its a little tricky repeatedly and its weird.
                the goal for an installation procedure is that it should be self-explanatory and self-contained. As it is, the procedure
                requires a lot of previous knowledge.
                That to a certain extent applies to all distros and operating systems, unless an automatic install using whole disk is performed.

                There’s a kind of paradox that a distro that requires so little of its hardware, requires so much of its users at this critical point.

                Looks like the interface can do a lot but it is not intuitative, not to me anyway. I can sit a user in front of it and see what he or
                she says and if they are easily able to do an install with a separate home.

                Dolfin said there are templates, that is something the person doing the installation should find without effort, not needing to watch
                videos he or she does not even know exist, or as I did just giving up after a while then as in a hurry doing an automatic install
                which was not what I wanted. Lucky I did not have a test or new user with me let alone the taffy admin I am working on towards adopting
                linux in a home for refugees.
                G Parted Button, never even noticed that existed bottom right.

                All users install themselves is a goal i follow, it empowers but should definitely not be an intimidating process.
                If I sit my daughter in front of this I could end up getting hurt. User K would walk away crying.

                #70691
                Anonymous

                  I found this video confusing he never even created a home directory. The new installer is quite easy use as was the old one.

                  It would be better to explain how to use gparted for new users.

                  #70694
                  Moderator
                  caprea

                    All users install themselves is a goal i follow, it empowers but should definitely not be an intimidating process.

                    Exactly.To be honest, the only reason I was able to complete my first installation, which was on a laptop with several partitions and operating systems, quickly and confidently was because I trust the developers of antiX and MX not to lead me up the garden path.A new user will certainly get quite different feelings here, especially someone without linux experience.
                    Now, at second glance, the installer also seems easy to me, but I think someone without experience is starting to wonder, what do they want from me now?

                    #70696
                    Moderator
                    BobC

                      punranger, Normal beginners are just going to use the complete drive. If you want to make fancier setups, you will need to learn more about it.

                      To learn, I’d suggest focusing on a drive setup similar to what you have, and practice with a spare drive so you don’t risk your information. I setup my partitions with Gparted first, and then run the install. Using a spare drive, this poses minimal risk and you can experiment until you are comfortable with the entire process.

                      BTW: One rule is to ONLY change things on the volume you are loading as root and leave the rest alone unless you have a specific reason which has been completely thought out, investigated, and tested. I have lost drives before, so I’m saying that from learning the hard way. Working from a spare drive is the right way to learn safely.

                      • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by BobC.

                      Daily driver distro https://www.antixforum.com

                      #70717
                      Member
                      ModdIt

                        Bobc wrote
                        Normal beginners are just going to use the complete drive

                        I personaly would be happy with that IF the default created a separate home
                        i.e. Root of a decent size and the rest as home. And warned if that would
                        overwrite windoze or a partition with a lot of data, eg high usage.

                        That is the If you like Template that would give a new user best option.
                        Separate home is to me an absolute essential. If something goes wrong data
                        loss is much less likely. In most cases I can rescue a system with all settings,
                        just install the optional or user installed packages and get on with work.

                        I ask users to Backup data, that is make an ISO, make a personal stick as a rescue
                        media. I am sure user K still has exactly what we did together at install nearly a
                        year ago !. And the notes and howto forgotten in a draw.

                        Pls consider practice with a spare drive is impossible for many of our users,
                        especialy those in third world. I can use a dumpster computer which would be a
                        prized posession in many parts of the world. Ask Marcello, about a Favela or I
                        can post some pictures from Ho Chi Minh, Can Tho. Roundabout 2,5 Million live in
                        HoChiMinh Majority in conditions most westerners can not even imagine.

                        Problem with an installer is Practice, a new user wants an install and forget experience.
                        I teach about Partitioning and why, cutting the cake we eat while working. Easy way to get
                        even a 5 year old to install his own setup. Cake, smartys anything divisible in yours mine
                        others and some for a rainy day. The archive area I give separate space.

                        This is a problem of familiarity blindness, we need to take users off the street to test.
                        Unfortunately in these days of death not the easiest proposition. And be open to finding
                        solutions for the new user not us old experienced guys.

                        Read what caprea wrote, he surely felt the same as I did, shit start Gparted, this is confusing..

                        #70719
                        Member
                        Eismckwadraat19

                          Apart from her partitioning, I can’t stand the difference between the west and third world countries.
                          But unfortunately people in the west don’t think about this enough…

                          To come back to the partition layout, maybe we can make a clear step-by-step plan for new users..?

                          • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by Eismckwadraat19.

                          -I find capitalism repugnant. It is filthy, it is gross, it is alienating... because it causes war, hypocrisy and competition-

                          Fidel Castro

                          #70725
                          Moderator
                          BobC

                            Ok, You guys win. I’ve never done a separate /home setup. The /home needs to match the programs in the root partition.

                            If you think that having a separate /home is a better setup, maybe find an OS that has a /home setup, copy it’s instructions, or use them as a base for better instructions.

                            Myself, I think UEFI and Legacy would be easier to explain with separate instructions.

                            Maybe an idea would be to clone Dolphin’s video and adjust/improve the areas you think need to be explained better using the methodology you would recommend.

                            PS: Yes, I probably have 20 extra disk drives and computers, mostly just salvaged over the years. Not everyone has spares.

                            • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by BobC.

                            Daily driver distro https://www.antixforum.com

                            #70732
                            Member
                            ModdIt

                              Figuring some way to make this easier to understand has to be shared first place on my todo list.

                              I want to win new users not frighten them,
                              wherever possible get them on the road to telling others, hey my computer was crap, now it
                              runs great, with Linux.

                              BobC: I’ve never done a separate /home setup,
                              Sounds like you would be a great guinea pig/tester :-).

                              We know you are an experienced linuxer, have very good problem ananlysis capability as well as an
                              excellent solution finder. Maybe if we all put our heads together we can find an easy way to get
                              confusion out of the equasion.

                              I am thinking install templates as a good way to go. Standard with separate home as example X GB
                              minimum for root, Swap chose between 5ooMB and 8 GB as more than enough for modern machine.
                              Rest for home. Alternative template with an area as archive.

                              That could be very nearly as easy as a standard take whole disk no home install.

                              I need to get on top of UEFI Legacy install, autodetect and setup on the actual machine would be the
                              perfect option from user point of view.

                              I have more than once gone around that with an autoinstall to get a boot then reinstalled adding custom
                              partitions but keeping the 300 MB or so EFI ESP or boot partition intact. before I installed Arch I used
                              Manjaro to get a setup in my head. In the end I gave up on both, too many update issues at times.
                              Archers say too stupid to read the docs. they are right, I am an experimenter. Kept one solid system and
                              played with others. Right now, solid is 19.4 and still learning about 21 with runit. Moving soon I think.

                              #70774
                              Member
                              ModdIt

                                Still have a lot to explore, just did an install on to a drive previously used for 19.4
                                using same partitioning was easy. I will look in to Templates as soon as I have time

                                The installer setup had me somewhat confused again, it seems to want to setup partitions
                                opposite way round to what I have been used to up to now.

                                Creating, sizing or resizing partitions in the graphical gparted is much easier to visualise
                                and understand. Maybe why it is linked from the installer. Could be a more obvious option as
                                I missed it before watching the dolfin video.

                                Typical stress- whats this, how does it work,
                                why does it do what it wants not what I want, am I stupid—tunnel vision.

                                #70823
                                Member
                                roland

                                  I recently installed Grup Yorum 21 on a PC that already had Grup Yorum 19.3 installed tidied up and running well. I installed an SSD to receive 21, but intended to retain 19.3 at least for the time being. I had to fit a SATA expansion card and rearrange a couple of SATA cables to accommodate things. I also had the 19.3 $home on a separate partition on yet another drive, and intended that this $home would be shared between the two installs. I was unsure what to do about the swap partition, so created a new one on the SSD. 19.3 can use this I suppose, allowing the other one to be released.

                                  I found the new installer crystal clear and straightforward to use, although I took the precaution of creating and formatting the required new partitions in advance, invoking Gparted before I ran the installer.

                                  I did run into problems with a slow messy boot process, but these I am certain are related to the SATA expansion card, and in no way resultant from the install. I regard 21 as a good step forward despite it being very similar in most respects to 19.4. Connman works straight out of the box, that’s major step in itself.

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