Core concepts idea

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-17 “Heather Heyer” Core concepts idea

  • This topic has 9 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Feb 11-9:14 am by masinick.
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  • #32593
    Member
    AntixDingoAntixDingo

    Devs and support community,

    Is there a document available to users describing the fundamental concept of Antix? More specifically, what guidance is available to users that describes how and what the Antix system does and how it’s different than other distributions. There is the youtube channel (really great btw) but what about a printed reference? Admittedly it’s a kludge to index video tutorials regarding potential issues (due to a lack of familiarity) that a user doesn’t know exist yet.

    I think this would help promote the Antix way of doing things and help get users on-board.

    I start this request as a user of Helen Keller and Marielle. I’ve been around for 10 months.

    An example:

    Helen Keller is running Live, handling some to-ram ufw at home. It’s a champ. All the good things regarding flexibility and system load on old hardware are present in this build. I watched YT, read what I could find, joined up here, brought 11 years of daily Linux experience to the project. I ‘cronned’ my way out maintenance activities and unplugged the screen 8 months ago.

    Long story short, some hands-on time pertaining to Spectre and Meltdown brought me back to the firewall. In the interim, and having no knowledge of a reference document, I turned Helen Keller to stone. My process for the security-upgrades did not include the remaster bits. I just forget and didn’t know I didn’t know. Not a huge deal for me because I’m all grown up and pulled a restored system from my magic place. Add a little copy-pasta and I’m back.

    You can see how this situation can be a deal-breaker? Pertinent criticisms probably start in the area, ‘Why the system let me do that,’ or, ‘No warnings. Seriously.’

    Maybe a how-to document, or quick-ref would be in order? I’m not looking for more GUIs or ok/cancel interruptions.

    Few things as strong as a well-timed idea.

    #32594
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    We have this

    FAQ

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #32595
    Member
    AntixDingoAntixDingo

    Since I’m nitpicking:

    The FAQ addresses about half of what I want. Arguably, ‘remaster’ isn’t a concept or operation in common usage in PC user-experience. It is a very big part of what makes Antix awesome. In my opinion, Antix isn’t meant to be user-friendly. Sometimes, bloaty-bloat-bloatware and user-friendly are interchangeable euphemisms.

    New, or forgetful users, might not know to reference this FAQ prior to security-upgrades procedure. In my case, this was my latest, but by no means first, kernel upgrade. In fact, I could say that because of my confidence I made the mistakes. Still, bricks. Secondly, The FAQ isn’t organized by questions in the page header. It’s more of a thorough manual. Conceptually different, especially for new users. Also, is the FAQ indexed? It’s 2020, click-read, click, click-read isn’t near best practice when on-boarding a growing user-base.

    Touching on the discussion from the DW thread, evaluating the tension between ease-of-use(notifiers for the noobs) and core-mission (lean meanies) and dubious intentions from critics(critics have deadlines like everybody else):
    -designing an upgrade process that refers to a novel feature that can kill systems while (seemingly) burying the best practice operation in an online manual (that you can’t read with a bricked kernel) appears to make the critics’ efforts all the more reasonable.

    Few things as strong as a well-timed idea.

    #32596
    Member
    christophechristophe

    I started with Ubuntu and some other Linuxes, principally starting in 2009 or so. When I saw that antiX still supported 32-bit computers, and nearly all others were dropping support, I read about it from the outside (reviews). I tried it & devouered the FAQs. I experimented & read the forums. I poked around & landed on the mx/antix wiki. I don’t know exactly when it gelled togther, but ended up learning my way around antiX pretty well. I never had the problem of not updating. There is information on the website, the forum, and all those HELP links on the root menus (which I now normally “comment-out”). So, I have to (respectfully) disagree. I think the full/base editions of antiX are very well-documented. That said, I do concede that an update feature may be useful to some (many new?) people. Maybe because I like to learn my computers and customize them, I don’t like to simply take what I’m given. IMHO, there is little room for improvement.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by christophe.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by christophe.
    #32602
    Member
    AntixDingoAntixDingo

    My idiocy notwithstanding, I’m happy with the current state of Antix as well.

    I do think there is a contradiction present. It can be summed up like this, is increasing the user base a priority?

    If it is not a priority, I’m all for it. But then who cares about critics over at DW?

    The development of the transience and persistence features are novel and useful, But then why not promote these features?

    Also, and this is my own peevishness, dropping a FAQ link is almost a trope. It’s RTFM but on the Internet. Again, no problem per se. I’ve read and reread the FAQ. Didn’t stop me from bricking my install. The info in the FAQ is very helpful. The FAQ plus time was what I needed to screw up my firewall.

    A single page, quick-reference document highlights an outstanding feature of the distribution. Unique technology, new best-practice. This highlights the difference and value Antix offers and speaks to the fundamentals of the design. Try something new, rinse, repeat.

    Ask yourself, why do noobs need so much hand-holding? They don’t want to screw up their PCs.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by AntixDingo. Reason: there their they're

    Few things as strong as a well-timed idea.

    #32604
    Member
    christophechristophe

    I do think there is a contradiction present. It can be summed up like this, is increasing the user base a priority?

    I think you are right. 🙂 That’s the question.
    Someone once said that a wise man always counts the cost before embarking on an endeavour…

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by christophe. Reason: white space
    #32607
    Moderator
    fatmacfatmac

    AntiX doesn’t put itself out there as a newbie friendly system, it is for those that have at least some understanding of how Linux works, & in this it works very well indeed.

    Do we want to grow our user base? Probably, but not at the expense of dumbing down the distro.

    Most people can find what they need to know by reading the documentation, or else they can ask questions.

    Linux (& BSD) since 1999

    #32612
    Member
    AvatarPPC

    My opinion on this: antiX is “almost” as newbie friendly system as, for example the *buntus- if someone that only know MS Windows sits in front of a pc with antiX, the user probably can get on-line is a mater of seconds. If that user is prone to exploration of the menu, in a few seconds more, learns how to start a word processor or a spreadsheet.
    And I remember my first days using antiX correctly – I found that that the Control Centre is the equivalent of Windows Control Panel (and I was a Mint user before jumping to antiX and MX, I’m trying to see the newbies POV)- change resolution, install printers, etc, it’s all done there.
    At first I assumed antiX, like all other OS’s I used before, just did automatic upgrades, it took months for me to perform a system upgrade!
    I was never really used to having a “app store” (except on my phone) so I don’t miss it – but antiX packet manager could get a bit more of publicity as being it’s mini app store. Most essencial apps are 1 click away- I’ve said here before that I think most popular applications – like VLC- should be there, available within 1 click to the new user… The most used applications- like browsers, are there!
    As for a real “gown up” app store – that’s what Synapic is- but there probably should be a more detailed how to easily accessible that “holds the newbie” hand and explains, in layman’s terms how to search for a app and then install it.
    Many users here don’t like appimages- but they are easy to install, can’t harm the system- either they work (on most cases) or they don’t. There are a couple of sites that work as a kind o appimages app store, that could be linked to…
    These are, in my opinion some ways that antiX can be problematic for new users. a simple, help/faq/manual – something like – “New to Linux? Read this”
    could tip users about how to search for, and install application, update the system (either manually, via synapic or the new apt-notifier). Also showing that there’s a different file manager other than rox, and how to set it as the default file manager could be handy. also if SpaceFM could come, by default with visible links to the usual folders (like Downloads, even Aplications ( the .desktop files folder) it would help a lot with ease of use…
    Also, direct instructions about how to put icons on the desktop and toolbar. That covers almost all bases that a newbie needs to use antiX more confortably. All the tools for easy use of the OS are already there- the new user just feels… lost, not knowing where they are.

    In short- antiX is almost newbie friendly. A single relatively short html file or pdf file (MX style) available from the desktop could make it (almost) 100% newbie friendly.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention – cli-aptix is great! It even suggests the most popular applications, allows easy search of application by name… now only if there was a gui-aptix (I don’t know, maybe mixing some of cli-aptix functionalities with the also excelent package manager, somehow?) … Thant would solve any objections that antiX does not have a appstore

    P.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
    #32615
    Member
    Avataranimusdominus

    In my opinion, Antix isn’t meant to be user-friendly.

    Dunno if it was meant to be BUT my mom knew only winblows xp and since its end she finds antix as the most ”understandable” distro. its her only desktop runner

    #32617
    Moderator
    masinickmasinick

    There are a LOT of easy to use distributions readily available. Our own MX. Linux is currently topping the DistroWatch access charts (something that MX and the previous MEPIS have accomplished a few times in their history).

    antiX arose from the original MEPIS distribution, not as yet another easy to use distribution, but as a lean, flexible software distribution primarily intended to work well on hardware 3-10+ years old.

    Because of the great tools and the outstanding Debian packages available on MEPIS, antiX and MX Linux, it’s possible for the curious and ambitious individuals to create whatever they prefer, but it’s not a goal of the antiX project that the software produced by and supported by the small development team becomes a highly graphical easy to use system.

    Mind you, absolutely nothing is preventing any individual or group of people from taking the code and tools in antiX and creating whatever they choose. Like the overall Linux project, the GNU license allows and encourages code sharing.

    Those interested in creating a one time variation for themselves can do so (I do it often). I’ve shared a few of my experiences over the years. If an experiment grows into more, that’s possible. Just be sure to acknowledge prior work and licenses.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by masinick.

    Brian Masinick

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