dbus upgrade breaks antiX

Forum Forums News Sid Upgraders dbus upgrade breaks antiX

  • This topic has 11 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Jul 20-10:49 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #86211
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista

    Today (18 July 2022, 09.30 Greece time) an upgrade of dbus will remove lots of apps.
    Obviously do not upgrade and wait until it is safe.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #86212
    Member
    Xaver
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    @ anticapitalista
    Thank you for the warning.
    On both of my antiX-sid systems this dbus upgrade is prevented automatically.

    My antiX-sid-sysv on HD reports the following conflict:

    The following packages have unmet dependencies:
     desktop-defaults-antix : Depends: gksu but it is not going to be installed

    Strange: But both of them are installed as the latest versions:
    desktop-defaults-antix 0.1.11, gksu 2.1.0

    On my antiX-runit-elogindfree-polkitdfree creation with policykit-1-dummy
    these new dbus packages are kept back, because I have excluded polkitd and elogind via pins.

    Maybe this could be the way to go for antiX-22. Can such a setting be made friendly to beginners? Is it possible to redirect the pkexec command to gksu or su-to-root automatically?

    #86272
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    Should be ok now.
    But check first.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #86280
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    Xaver
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    Yes, everything is ok again. Just performed full-upgrade without any conflicts.

    #86288
    Member
    PPC
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    æanticapitalista – Hi anti… One suggestion to partly avoid similar problems in the future… Do you think we can have a file in the antiX repos, warning users when similar problems happen? I can alter the antiX updater script, so it checks that file before trying to perform an upgrade, and display a warning/stop the upgrade…
    If that works, we can have an hookup on the upgrade, to force to always check that “warning file”…
    P.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by PPC.
    #86291
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    It was a Debian upgrade of dbus that broke antiX in sid if users did not follow basic precautions.

    Sorry, but I really think that it is the users responsibility to check what might get removed when using sid/testing repos.
    If they don’t pay attention, then they get to ‘pick up the pieces’. It is sid after all.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #86305
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    Over the years I’ve been able to run “Sid” based versions for years at a time, simply watching the package changes; when something strange exists, I wait a few days (EXCEPT times when I was DELIBERATELY TRYING to BREAK the system). In those cases, OF COURSE I had backups, alternatives and a choice of distributions, even backup hardware.

    I also did NOT do Sid updates immediately after a NEW Debian release UNTIL I was 100% certain that the Sid repositories and any infrastructure changes were safely in place. Other than those kinds of reasonable caveats, it is reasonable AND possible to run a Sid distribution for years at a time. In fact, once upon a time, when I had my Gateway 2000 PA6A system and my Dell Dimension 4100 before that, I DID run Sid for multiple years, and had to do really STUPID things in order to break any of them; otherwise, even fairly silly, not recommended updates and changes were fixable. As long as you watch what is being changed, you CAN run Sid reliably, but you do have to pay attention to what is changing. If you do, you may actually ENJOY it.

    Brian Masinick

    #86306
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    Remember, it’s smart to have backups, either in systems you can reinstall, and it is smart to save, backup, keep extra copies or a means to replace, recreate, or recover from redundant or external copies; if you have either redundancy, backups, copies, cloud versions, or more than one of these you’ll never be out of action for long, you can recover and move on.

    Brian Masinick

    #86321
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    PenguinGuy
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    æanticapitalista – Hi anti… One suggestion to partly avoid similar problems in the future… Do you think we can have a file in the antiX repos, warning users when similar problems happen? I can alter the antiX updater script, so it checks that file before trying to perform an upgrade, and display a warning/stop the upgrade…
    If that works, we can have an hookup on the upgrade, to force to always check that “warning file”…
    P.

    Was thinking of a similar idea of this for curl in bash.

    I already wrote a script to block mass autoremoving here: https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/apt-upgrade-autoremove-broke-antix-apt-get/

    It was a Debian upgrade of dbus that broke antiX in sid if users did not follow basic precautions.

    Sorry, but I really think that it is the users responsibility to check what might get removed when using sid/testing repos.
    If they don’t pay attention, then the get to ‘pick up the pieces’. It is sid after all.

    I don’t get why having an updated system should be for ‘advanced users only’.

    Obviously, I don’t expect support for an open-source system, but thinking just in terms of effort — it seems like a lot more effort spent creating & responding to this thread then just having 1 file which could have a single character that toggles upgrading.

    Plus, since it is faster & more efficient it would help in any future unforeseeable emergency.

    It doesn’t have to be in the repo or change the antix code, it could be hosted like html & curl to with an optional .sh.

    #86340
    Member
    iznit
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    having 1 file

    I already posted this comment, must have been in another topic yesterday.

    “1 file which could have a single character that toggles upgrading”
    That “one file” would not, cannot , provide an accurate assessment of the current status across each of the 100?+ mirrors.

    #86342
    Member
    Xaver
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    @ PPC
    No extra warning is neccessary. If you run

    # apt update && apt list --upgradable

    you get a list, that shows, if a 0nosystemd1 version will be upgraded to a debian version.
    There is a reason, that the 0nosystemd1 version exist. So you better be cautious then.

    @ Pnguinguy
    Your terminology ist misleading. ‘autoremove’ is an apt command to remove packages, which are not needed anymore.
    But in your case you have installed packages, which were in conflict to the removed packages. So your script is useless. It does not solve anything.
    To detect the real cause, you should have checked /var/log/apt/history.log

    There is a command, that does not remove packages:

    # apt upgrade 
       or 
    # apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs

    It has a similar effect as putting the conflict causing packages on hold.
    It can be used with sid temporarily, but in the long run it will lead to a corrupt system.

    BTW: Sid is not for beginners!
    Be aware of the meaning of ‘sid’. It is a recursive acronym: Sid Is Dangerous.
    So prepare yourself to meet these dangers: Back up your system and your data and be willing to learn from try and error.
    You can find many helpfull informations about sid at siduction.org

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Xaver.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Xaver.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Xaver.
    #86355
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    Over the years I’ve been able to run “Sid” based versions for years at a time, simply watching the package changes; when something strange exists, I wait a few days (EXCEPT times when I was DELIBERATELY TRYING to BREAK the system). In those cases, OF COURSE I had backups, alternatives and a choice of distributions, even backup hardware.

    I also did NOT do Sid updates immediately after a NEW Debian release UNTIL I was 100% certain that the Sid repositories and any infrastructure changes were safely in place. Other than those kinds of reasonable caveats, it is reasonable AND possible to run a Sid distribution for years at a time. In fact, once upon a time, when I had my Gateway 2000 PA6A system and my Dell Dimension 4100 before that, I DID run Sid for multiple years, and had to do really STUPID things in order to break any of them; otherwise, even fairly silly, not recommended updates and changes were fixable. As long as you watch what is being changed, you CAN run Sid reliably, but you do have to pay attention to what is changing. If you do, you may actually ENJOY it.

    “Over the years” is the key phrase. I did not even begin to use Debian at all until I’d been experienced with Linux software for 5-6 years, and I had prior UNIX experience plus GNU software prior to the Linux experience. Add that all up and it’s a couple of decades prior to using Debian. So shortly after trying Debian and I became familiar with apt-get, dpkg, aptitude and synaptic I dove into Debian Sid, then dropped other packaging tools except apt-get when using Sid; I’d use synaptic and other tools with other distributions. So yeah, don’t get into Sid until you thoroughly understand the basics, then learn the ins and outs of packaging; when you can debug any issue and go through all problem solving steps and you can fix completely broken systems, then you may be ready to handle Sid; it may not take 20 years, but a couple of solid years to gain an excellent understanding is great unless you enjoy working under frustrating conditions when you don’t yet know how to debug and get out of messes; you can still do so by reinstalling everything.

    Brian Masinick

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