Debian Bullseye Freeze Timeline and Policy

Forum Forums General Other Distros Debian Bullseye Freeze Timeline and Policy

  • This topic has 15 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Nov 13-1:34 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #44621
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    Brian Masinick
    #44622
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    Brian Masinick
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    > 2021-01-12 – Milestone 1 – Transition and (build-)essentials Freeze
    > 2021-02-12 – Milestone 2 – Soft Freeze
    > 2021-03-12 – Milestone 3 – Hard Freeze – for key packages and packages without autopkgtests
    > TBA – Milestone 4 – Full Freeze

    Brian Masinick

    #44627
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    Xecure
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    Thanks, masinick, for informing us in advance.

    #44632
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    Brian Masinick
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    You’re welcome. If the Full Freeze and the Hard Freeze are completed by some time in April or early May, we could have a Bullseye Release by the end of May, and almost certainly by June; of course, if these dates cannot be met and unforeseen defect remediation is necessary, who knows how long it could “drag along” or “drag out” (delays). One thing about Debian, when it IS released, to me it’s some of the highest quality code.

    A note for the new users in our midst: Many of us realize that our antiX distribution work is mostly from Debian, EXCEPT for the systemd stuff. Instead of using systemd job and process initiation (I sometimes refer to it as “job scheduler”, though that may not be the correct “technical term”), we use either runit or sysvinit. Devuan uses sysvinit as we do in our default configuration (runit is our most recent additional choice for process initiation). Even though we have these technical and philosophical differences, we still owe a great deal to the Debian packaging team, which provides approximately 3/4 of our packages (anything NOT dependent on systemd, whatever that percentage *actually is*).

    What we add ourselves are the tools, art work, technical support, specific build system, forums, etc. Of course, the applications themselves are developed by people throughout the overall Open Source Linux infrastructure, which includes the Linux kernel. Our own kernel comes from Linux kernel sources and our developers take the source, configure the desired features and compile the software, then create the .deb kernel packages. Other kernels, such as the Debian kernel and Liquorix kernel, come from those respective projects.

    Any binary package that is built by antiX developers is put into antiX binary repository .deb packages.

    Brian Masinick

    #44639
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    Koo
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    Thank you masinick
    So the new year will bring a new version of Debian (bullseye) & antiX-20.
    Let just hope 2021 hopefully will bring a Happier & Healthier World..Would be nice too.

    T430 i7-3632QM 16gb , antiX-19.2.1-runit_x64-base Hannie Schaft 29 March 2020 , 5.8.16-antix.1-amd64-smp

    #44640
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    Brian Masinick
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    If all goes well, we could start putting together antiX 20 during Spring 2021 and release it as soon as Debian does.

    I think we have been able to do this a couple of times in the past. It all depends on the number of testers, the number of defects found, and the absence of anything that would compromise either the quality of the software or the proposed delivery schedule. The “good news” as far as I am concerned is that since about Debian 8, they have been getting better about setting a schedule and doing their best to achieve it. If successful, 2021 will be the year for a new release of Debian, antiX, and hopefully MX Linux too after the antiX work completes.

    IF I see it happening, I’ll do what I can to help out if there is anything that’s in my “skill set”.

    Brian Masinick

    #44694
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    Brian Masinick
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    Since Bullseye is approaching, Debian Sid, which is where the vast majority of new or updated packages are introduced, is currently undergoing one of its major library changes. If you use Debian Sid either directly or you enable Sid repos with antiX or other Debian-based systems I recommend caution and if possible, hold up on package changes right now. I also recommend either subscribing to the Debian newsletter or carefully read and monitor the Debian Website for changes. First it’ll happen in Sid, then the changes will go to Debian Testing. It’s not necessarily that the changes will fail, it’s that the number of changes (600+) may take a while for some repos to properly update.

    Brian Masinick

    #44749
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    One thing about Debian, when it IS released, to me it’s some of the highest quality code.

    My memory is that when the last Debian was released it was more unstable than Arch-testing, and it took just days for them to move from the .0 to .1 because so many people had problems. Those who run the previous version’s testing and rolled into the new version had no issues, but those who made clean new installations with **.0 , 2 years ago, came out of the “accident” with their front teeth cracked. I can’t remember the exact issue and problem, but it gave me tons of laughs back then watching the “keep it quiet and cover it up” operation.

    #44754
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    Koo
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    One thing about Debian, when it IS released, to me it’s some of the highest quality code.

    My memory is that when the last Debian was released it was more unstable than Arch-testing, and it took just days for them to move from the .0 to .1 because so many people had problems. Those who run the previous version’s testing and rolled into the new version had no issues, but those who made clean new installations with **.0 , 2 years ago, came out of the “accident” with their front teeth cracked. I can’t remember the exact issue and problem, but it gave me tons of laughs back then watching the “keep it quiet and cover it up” operation.

    I did not write any such thing.
    Debian always seems to be about two years behind anyway. Plus if you want something which is the latest version using antiX or Debian , I either use source code or some other way their is really no other option. Have not had anything brake the system yet.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by Koo.

    T430 i7-3632QM 16gb , antiX-19.2.1-runit_x64-base Hannie Schaft 29 March 2020 , 5.8.16-antix.1-amd64-smp

    #44769
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    Dzhigit
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    Debian 11 “Bullseye” Freezes Coming Up, Debian 13 To Be Trixie

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-13-Trixie

    #44772
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    Brian Masinick
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    I said that Debian produces high quality code.

    I didn’t say that there are NEVER issues. In fact I cautioned people to use care about updating right now if you use Sid.

    Here’s the thing:
    1. WE use Debian packages here. If they were junk, why would we use them.
    2. When a new version of anything comes out, it’s good to test it.
    3. Because of this I often test the software I like to use, and as a result I have excellent results and rarely experience problems because I report issues during the testing cycles.
    4. I also test key applications and I seldom have problems with the applications that I use for the same reasons.

    For anyone who has problems, please report issues to the application and the distribution so that they can be fixed.
    This will help applications and distributions get better and better.

    Brian Masinick

    #44853
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    Dzhigit
    #44883
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    Brian Masinick
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    Phoronix also had a good article back on September 4, 2020 identifying the problems that Debian has; specifically “The Problems Debian Is Facing In 2020”.

    This is a great example of how the project looks at itself and works on problems. This year the project was pretty open about a few things where they really missed an opportunity to do better.

    So to keep with the discussion about complaints and issues with Debian, clearly there are issues and there are problems. What pleases me is that such things don’t get hidden in some private meeting or in some dishonest corporate activity.

    Phoronix brings it right out here: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-2020-Problems

    The distribution that feeds us software – yes, it has some problems, but with a Stable, Testing, Unstable (and sometimes an “Experimental” repo, the overall ecosystem is healthy. I also find code in distributions based on either Slackware or Debian to be a bit more responsive, as long as they don’t add too much “veneer” or excess bloatware on top of the base software. AntiX does an excellent job because it chooses some of the lightest, most efficient packages from the Debian software pool, plus efficient system management tools that consume minimal resources.

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by Brian Masinick.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #44884
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    skidoo
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    here’s the direct link
    (FYI the final “s” is missing in the link posted above)
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Debian-2020-Problems

    #44885
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    skidoo
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    related reading:

    debian subreddit topic discussing the article, contains 160+ comments
    https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/imde9l/the_problems_debian_is_facing_in_2020_how_can_we/

    maintained and updated across years, a list of critical observations regarding the “desktop linux” status quo
    https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

    distrowatch ( 2014 )

    Upstream projects, such as Fedora and Debian, tend to get access to new technologies
    and bug fixes sooner and often provide a lighter operating system. Downstream projects,
    like Linux Mint and Manjaro Linux, tend to have more user friendly features and added
    tools over their upstream parents, but may lag behind new software releases while they
    wait for their parent project to make new packages available.

    .

    distrowatch ( 2018 )
    Packages not flowing upstream into Debian
    opinion editorial, by Jesse Smith
    along with 90+ user comments

    archlinux subreddit topic (2018)
    why_do_most_distros_try_to_outsmart_upstream

    linux subreddit topic (2016)
    Why do Debian patch their upstream packages so heavily compared to other distros?

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