Debian Bullseye release planned on 2021-08-14 and the last weeks…

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  • This topic has 10 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated Jul 24-9:28 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #63465
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick

    This comes from an Email message from the Debian Devel Announce:

    Debian Bullseye release planned on 2021-08-14 and the last weeks up to the release
    Paul Gevers <elbrus@debian.org>
    To:Debian Devel Announce

    Hi all,

    Release date
    ============

    We plan to release on 2021-08-14.

    If you want to celebrate it (and the conditions around you allow for
    it), please consider attending a Debian release party, or hosting your
    own! See https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyBullseye for more
    information.

    The final weeks up to the release
    =================================

    In the last week prior to the freeze, testing will be completely
    frozen and only emergency bug fixes will be considered in this period.
    Please consider Tuesday the 2021-08-03 at 12:00 UTC the absolute last
    moment for submitting unblock requests for bullseye.

    Changes that are not ready to migrate to testing at that time will
    not be included in bullseye for the initial release. However, you can
    still fix bugs in bullseye via point releases if the changeset follows
    the rules for updates in stable.

    Starting now, we will be even more strict when considering unblock
    requests. Please check the details below and make sure to only upload
    well-tested *targeted* fixes.

    In summary:

    vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
    * **Unblock request** deadline: > 2021-08-03 12:00 UTC <
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    – You must submit your unblock request *before* then
    – Your changes must be ready to migrate to bullseye at that time
    – Upload several days *before* the deadline

    * If a change is late, it may still be applicable for an update via
    a point release after bullseye has been released.

    * Please note that the automatic removals are still in effect and may
    still remove packages up to that date. Also, some packages will be
    removed manually before the auto-removal deadline.

    Please fix bugs today rather than shortly before the deadline. Simple
    mistakes (no manner how trivial) or busy buildd queue can end up
    causing your upload to miss the bullseye release.

    Future updates to bullseye up to the freeze
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    As we are entering the final part of the freeze, please keep future
    changes and unblock requests limited to:

    * targeted fixes for release critical bugs (i.e., bugs of severity
    critical, grave, and serious);

    * fixes for severity: important bugs, only when this can be done via
    unstable;

    * translation updates and documentation fixes, only when this can be
    done via unstable (preferably bundled with a fix for at least one
    of the problems listed above and nothing else)

    * updates to packages directly related to the release process
    (i.e. with references to the current layout of the archive), only
    when this can be done via unstable;

    We will only accept targeted fixes. Requests including other changes
    will not be accepted. Please do not upload new upstream versions to
    unstable.

    For the release team,
    Paul

    • This topic was modified 2 months ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #63476
    Member
    andyprough
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    I like Debian-based distros, they are the only kind I’ve used the past two years. Prior to that I was using SuSE and opensuse for 20 years, and had to use a lot of work-arounds in order to do things that are very simple with antiX.

    However, I do not like the Debian project or its leaders, and I do not trust them to be good stewards of Debian’s packages and repos. I think they will continue to make any changes that the Canonical team demands of them, regardless of how badly they impact Debian’s vast non-Ubuntu user base. If there were a better base for antiX, I would be happy to see it switched. Soon, before it becomes too late and the rug is ripped out from underneath antiX. /end_of_rant

    That said, I’m happy to see this swift progress on Debian this summer. I have very high hopes for this next version of antiX, and antiX hasn’t let me down yet, so I think my high hopes will be richly rewarded.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by andyprough.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by andyprough.
    #63480
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    You may be happy to know that antiX is among the distributions that deviate from standard Debian (along the lines of the Devuan project). Specifically the systemD stuff is NOT adopted, we use eudev and several other libraries in place of standard Debian libraries.

    Check out our FAQ and info pages for more specifics.

    We do use a lot of Debian packages, but modify many libraries for our own purposes and freedom.

    Brian Masinick

    #63481
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    marcelocripe
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    Thank you Mr. Brian for always bringing us up-to-date information about Debian management. It always brings some impact to antiX, doesn’t it?

    ———-

    Obrigado sr. Brian por sempre nos trazer informações atualizadas sobre o gerenciamento do Debian. Isso sempre trás algum impacto para o antiX, não é mesmo?

    marcelocripe

    #63482
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    Thank you Mr. Brian for always bringing us up-to-date information about Debian management. It always brings some impact to antiX, doesn’t it?

    ———-

    Obrigado sr. Brian por sempre nos trazer informações atualizadas sobre o gerenciamento do Debian. Isso sempre trás algum impacto para o antiX, não é mesmo?

    marcelocripe

    Yes, the Debian project has a positive impact on a lot of software, including our own. As I noted above, it is NOT identical to antiX; we diverge from the manner in which Debian schedules processes after the initial process (commonly known as the “init” process). We use either the runit or sysvinit approaches; Debian uses systemD.

    Brian Masinick

    #63484
    Member
    andyprough
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    You may be happy to know that antiX is among the distributions that deviate from standard Debian (along the lines of the Devuan project). Specifically the systemD stuff is NOT adopted, we use eudev and several other libraries in place of standard Debian libraries.

    Check out our FAQ and info pages for more specifics.

    We do use a lot of Debian packages, but modify many libraries for our own purposes and freedom.

    Of course, I know it well, and I’ve made my own antiX Libre respins which some people seem to be using. antiX is far and away the best distro to make a respin from. But what happens when the Debian maintainers start trying to force people to use snaps or wayland or make some other moronic decisions like they have already? I don’t trust the people with that project to not screw things up badly. What happens when they make thousands of important packages depend on systemd, rather than just a few hundred?

    Maybe I should be more trusting of them? Maybe my distrust is not well founded?

    #63486
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    I cannot speak with certainty about the entire effort. I can say that there is a voting process and there are still a lot of alternative paths. Sure, if everything has to be redone, there comes a point where we may question the worth.

    I have a feeling that in the next 5, almost certainly within the next 10 years, there is likely to be some significant shifts in the way many of the computing mechanisms we’ve taken for granted for the past 40 years are due – even overdue, for a major overhaul.

    When that happens, at least the fact that we have existing source code software in place, to some degree we will still be able to maintain and use old systems and old software, but it will be difficult to keep it compatible with new ideas and features, and certainly not with a complete architectural overhaul. So the fact is that everyone will have to deal with this eventually.

    I’m now retired, but I still expect this to take place during my lifetime unless my projection is way off.

    Brian Masinick

    #63491
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    andyprough
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    I’m now retired, but I still expect this to take place during my lifetime unless my projection is way off.

    I think your projection is spot-on. I wonder how much of an impact this new Steam Deck device is going to have when it’s released next year. It could be huge. A big tablet sized screen, with controllers, which is running a real Arch distro, at a good price. It could be the new kind of device that people start replacing laptops with, especially if it can connect to external monitors and keyboards and mice and so forth. And especially if you could distro-hop with it.

    #63496
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
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    If Debian does make it almost impossible to be systemd free, then we will suffer (as will Devuan).
    Since bullseye is ok as a base for keeping antiX systemd-free and will be supported until at least c.2025 we don’t need to worry too much.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #63497
    Member
    Xecure
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    I fear that the day that Wayland is enforced by Debian will be like the recent Windows 11 announcement, Debian will only work on newer computers (Windows 11 will not work on any device without a TPM2 chip, but that has nothing to do with Wayland). That day will probably force a fork of Debian with a much greater following and migration compared to the non-systemd fork Devuan.

    Old video cards will not be supported properly in Wayland, and will be up to the Wayland compositor to enable the support and use of the FBDEV generic driver (I think VESA will not be supported). I think they require kernel mode setting, so forget about the ones that require nomodeset boot option.

    Related to the Steam handheld console, it will bring many new users to Linux, but isn’t helping much with Linux development. It seems they (Valve) are contacting game developers that have published Linux ports of their games and asking to remove the port and advising to use Proton instead. This might get developers that help port to Linux out of business, and reduce the importance for native Linux development. Linux will have more users but not more developers. I don’t see it as a very good move, and the already patient volunteers helping out in forums like this one will also want to “retire”, with all the “tiktokers” suddenly flooding the Linux communities with questions answered a hundred times.

    antiX Live system enthusiast.
    General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.

    #63500
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
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    If Debian does make it almost impossible to be systemd free, then we will suffer (as will Devuan).
    Since bullseye is ok as a base for keeping antiX systemd-free and will be supported until at least c.2025 we don’t need to worry too much.

    I have confidence that the Bullseye source code will be available long enough to allow this work to continue. As you mention, as long as the code remains available until 2025, that should be sufficient to support the current generation of hardware. By then, the 5 year old hardware that is getting old may be something different, (with a different architecture) so it won’t matter except for really old relics. We can keep them at least running, but it’ll get difficult to do anything “new” with them, since they’ll be very old anyway.

    By then my eyes won’t be able to read for more than short periods of time, so I’ll probably be using either the old stuff or something different that is easy on my aging eyes. AS you mention, this is far enough in the future that we don’t have anything to be concerned about for at least four more years.

    Brian Masinick

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