Disabling Pipewire in antiX-23

Forum Forums General Tips and Tricks Disabling Pipewire in antiX-23

  • This topic has 72 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Oct 25-2:22 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #115856
    Member
    PPC

      Like some users, I experienced audio problems on one of my computers, in antiX-23 final.
      It seems that: Modern Kernel + Pipewire = No sound on my netbook.
      Also: Older Kernel + Pipewire = sound on my netbook, but a “frankenpipewire/alsa” sound system that spits out errors every time I try to run volumeicon. I can only control the volume from the terminal…

      If you are affected by this problem, antiX comes with a built-in GUI to disable Pipewire (I wrote it myself… Ironic, I know).

      antiX Menu > Applications > Accessories > Enable/Disable Pipewire > If “Pipewire” is enabled, click the slider so it’s set to the “disabled” option. Click the button on the lower right of that window and select the option to “Reboot”.

      Once you log back on to antiX, Pipewire should be turned off and Alsa *should* be working normally.

      P.

      #116000
      Member
      blur13

        I looked at the script. In essence, it comments out pipewire-start from the startup file? Is that really enough to get alsa working again?

        I tried that and when running

        $ alsamixer
        cannot open mixer: Host is down
        $ amixer
        amixer: Mixer attach default error: Host is down
        $ mpv some.mp3
        [ao/pipewire] Could not connect to context '(null)': Host is down
        AO: [alsa] 48000Hz stereo 2ch float
        

        Programs configured to use alsa will use alsa (as they did even when pipewire was running). Other programs may revert to alsa, such as mpv did. Tools like alsamixer and amixer dont work. That means that media keys such as:

        ###Added the more common multimedia keys
        ###Multimedia keys
        key "XF86AudioLowerVolume"	amixer sset Master -M 5%-
        key "XF86AudioRaiseVolume"	amixer sset Master -M 5%+
        key "XF86AudioMute"		amixer sset Master toggle
        

        also will not work.

        Is there a more “thorough” way of removing pipewire?

        (using amixer -c0 or alsamixer -c0 does work though)

        #116007
        Member
        Xunzi_23

          Hi blur 13,
          Due recent sound problems: found I could remove all except libpipewire0.3-0 and libspa-0.2-modules

          Trying to remove those results in celluloid libmpv2 mpv removal
          I have no need for celluloid.

          Which is I think a nonsensical depend added upstream, mpv will fall back
          to and work fine with alsa.

          I added below to ~/.config/mpv/mpv.conf on recently troublesome devices

          # ===== Audio =====
          ao=alsa
          audio-device= Audigy2

          All antiX 23 runit.

          #116011
          Member
          blur13

            Yes,

            sudo apt purge antix-pipewire-extras libspa-0.2-bluetooth gstreamer1.0-pipewire libpipewire-0.3-modules libwireplumber-0.4-0 pavucontrol

            did the trick.

            I also added ao=alsa in mpv.conf to avoid the error output of first trying (I assume) pipewire.

            Now everything is back to normal!

            This post was quite fun and informative:

            http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?p=147493#p147493

            #116027
            Member
            Xunzi_23

              After chasing rats down holes on 3 machines to get things working i was not happy.
              With pipewire, when I finally got an output, sound was absolutely awful, grainy and distorted.
              That on an audigy high end card equipped device with corresponding amplification and speakers.

              The convoluted invasive mess on top of alsa somehow reminded me of an offering from red hat,
              now IBM.

              Today after reading the linuxmusicians.com thread I looked at the history of
              pipewire, not pottering and friend this time, but still red hat.

              After wasting hours of valuable time, my opinion would be considered very bad language.

              • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Xunzi_23.
              #116040
              Member
              olsztyn

                This post was quite fun and informative:
                http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?p=147493#p147493

                I came across this thread a few days ago and it was fun to read…
                My testing experience in antiX world seemed to support @jeff’s explanation of pipewire’s monopolistic design…

                Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                #116041
                Member
                PPC

                  Sorry the script does not work as intended…

                  Since, according to what anticapitalista said, on antiX-23 beta, Pipewire had to be enabled in the startup file, I assumed that comment it’s line in the startup file. I tested that multiple times on meu desktop pc and it seemed to work – when enabled, I could control the volume using pauv, and firefox had sound. When disabled, I could control the volume using just alsamixer or volumeicon…
                  Since it seemed to work, anticapitalista went for it and included the tool. If it’s completly useless, I recommend:
                  – remove it from the next antiX 23 upgrade OR
                  – adjusting it so, when Pipewire is disabled, it also uninstalls the packages refered above… OR
                  – if the tool has some use, just keep it as it is? It seems, at least on the betas, so save some RAM usage.

                  I can’t currently test any solution since my home netbook only runs antiX-23 live and it’s affected by non working sound when using pipewire on the modern kernel or working sound on the older kernel, but with problems launching volumeicon, etc…

                  I do not have a “good ear”, so pipewire sounds normal to me… Also the only system that I have that has good speakers is my Hp laptop, that’s 32bits and that I’ll have to try to test antiX-23 32bits on, so I can ear it’s harman kardon speakers (it’s a very old machine, but it was once, long, loooong ago, a top notch piece of hardware).

                  P.

                  #116042
                  Member
                  Xunzi_23

                    Hi PPC, no worry, on some devices the script may work, on others not, all those
                    who support and are often on the forum really appreciate all the work you do.

                    I very rarely see two devices which are same in all important respects.
                    BIOS, Board revision, Graphics, sound, wireless adapters. It often
                    amazes me that Linux supports many devices better than win 10 and dreaded win 11.

                    You do get mentioned to every user I can while helping them to explore antiX :-).

                    Regarding the script: adjusting it so, when Pipewire is unwanted it also uninstalls
                    the packages gets my vote.

                    mpv devs have added pipewire as a hard dependency in latest, maybe they need some nudging
                    to change that to, worst case, a recommend.

                    #116046
                    Member
                    marcelocripe

                      I tested that multiple times on meu desktop pc and it seemed to work – when enabled, I could control the volume using pauv, and firefox had sound. When disabled, I could control the volume using just alsamixer or volumeicon…
                      Since it seemed to work, anticapitalista went for it and included the tool.

                      PPC, you have done a lot and continue to do a lot for the sake of antiX. Therefore, you did your best with what you had in your hands.

                      In my view, the anticapitalist did the right thing by adding PipeWire to antiX, because this is the way we have to not use PulseAudio and crap from SystemD. The other free SystemD distributions are also using PipeWire and ALSA, and the end user needs a GUI to enable or disable PipeWire.

                      When you first posted the PipeWire Deactivator Program, not many people bothered to help with the tests, now it’s too late to complain. Didn’t people see this thread thread antiX-23-beta2 iso files for testing?

                      Prior to the current PipeWire implementation method, we only had the Pipewire to manage audio in antiX 21 that Xecure brought to us. It took a long time for me to understand how to put Xecure’s teachings into practice. PipeWire is still the better option than PulseAudio. PulseAudio slows down antiX like it’s Windows Vista.

                      Now, what can be done are improvements in what already exists and I don’t think it’s logical to throw everything that has already been done in the trash.

                      The problem may be kernel related and not PipeWire related, but I have no way of figuring that out with just the one or two tests I’ve managed to run with antiX 23 full SysVinit.

                      – – – – –

                      I tested that multiple times on meu desktop pc and it seemed to work – when enabled, I could control the volume using pauv, and firefox had sound. When disabled, I could control the volume using just alsamixer or volumeicon…
                      Since it seemed to work, anticapitalista went for it and included the tool.

                      PPC, você fez muito e continua fazendo muito pelo bem do antiX. Por tanto, você fez o seu melhor com o que tinha nas suas mãos.

                      Ao meu ver, o anticapitalista fez a coisa certa ao adicionar o PipeWire no antiX, porque este é o caminho que temos para não utilizarmos o PulseAudio e as porcarias do SystemD. As outras distribuições livres do SystemD também estão utilizando o PipeWire e o ALSA, e o usuário final precisa de uma interface gráfica para ativar ou desativar o PipeWire.

                      Quando você postou pela primeira vez o programa Ativador de Desativador do PipeWire, poucas pessoas se atentaram a ajudar com os testes, agora é tarde reclamar. Será que as pessoas não viram esta conversa do tópico antiX-23-beta2 iso files for testing?

                      Antes do atual método de implementação do PipeWire, tínhamos apenas o método Pipewire to manage audio in antiX 21 que o Xecure trouxe para nós. Demorou bastante tempo para eu conseguir entender como fazer na prática os ensinamentos do Xecure. O PipeWire ainda é a melhor opção do que o PulseAudio. O PulseAudio torna o antiX lento como se fosse o Windows Vista.

                      Agora, o que pode ser feito são melhorias naquilo que já existe e não acho lógico jogar no lixo tudo que já foi feito.

                      O problema pode estar relacionado ao kernel e não ao PipeWire, mas eu não tenho como descobrir isso com apenas um ou dois testes que eu consegui fazer com o antiX 23 full SysVinit.

                      #116048
                      Member
                      stevesr0

                        Hi all,

                        I have to chuckle at this discussion.

                        I see it as two “teams”.

                        There are the “techies” who understand ALSA well and use it to its full potential and produce glorious sound on any device they connect in any manner. And who find Pipewire a negative in those regards.

                        And then there are folks like me – “noobies” – who have difficulties/impossibilities in making ALSA do simple things like connecting to a headset. Some of us enjoy the audio from Pipewire without realizing what we are missing.

                        If only there was a simple graphic frontend for ALSA, so everybody could use that happily without the need for stuff like Pulseaudio or Pipewire or Jack or Audacity or Ardour or…

                        (I suspect this goal is a bit of lala land at this time <g>.)

                        stevesr0

                        P.S. I actually find this to be a very illuminating discussion. Thanks all.

                        • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by stevesr0.
                        #116055
                        Member
                        Xunzi_23

                          Hi Steves, I wasted nearly a working day on the present setup and do not need jackass comments.

                          This is not about two teams, it is about having a working solution for as many users and devices as possible..

                          I had no sound output to speakers whatsoever in the beta 3 and reported it. In last days 3 machines no sound output, and
                          please do not tell me I should connect to the headphone jack again. The systems have audigy cards for a reason, it is not
                          just output either, pipewire makes the features of the cards useless..

                          #116058
                          Member
                          calciumsodium

                            I was not thinking of different teams when I tested that pipewire has a more muffled sound that with ALSA alone. It is what I have observed and reported.

                            Concerning purging pipewire, I found out that one has to manually delete the /usr/pipewire folder in order to not get residual piperwire error messages when using mpv. At least this is what I observed in my beta3 tests.

                            #116068
                            Moderator
                            Brian Masinick

                              I was not thinking of different teams when I tested that pipewire has a more muffled sound that with ALSA alone. It is what I have observed and reported.

                              Concerning purging pipewire, I found out that one has to manually delete the /usr/pipewire folder in order to not get residual piperwire error messages when using mpv. At least this is what I observed in my beta3 tests.

                              @Calciumsodium I remember during testing that you explicitly mentioned that your tests delivered a more muffled sound” than what you have experienced with ALSA.

                              @Xunzi_23 While I don’t specifically recall your note calling out the issues you have previously faced and reported, there is no question that you and a few others have encountered problems with the Pipewire audio where other people have encountered problems with the apulse and ALSA solutions in the past.

                              @PPC did attempt to create a tool to alternate between the two approaches; it appears this needs more attention and collaboration.

                              Rather than get unpleasant with one another about what works and what doesn’t, it’s pretty clear that depending on our particular system configuration, each solution seems to BE the solution for some, and the source of problems for others. This suggests that one single solution simply will not provide an optimal solution for our entire community, so without choosing between approaches and solutions, I’d like to recommend that we go back to the @PPC tool, see if we can make a few changes, test it out thoroughly with both the ALSA and Pipewire approaches, and see if this will result in a workable solution for all, or if we have to do something else.

                              @PPC, will you be willing to take the lead on this effort, and consult with all of the participants in this thread, making sure that @Xunzi_23 and @Calciumsodium are included? I’ll keep an eye on things and when we think we have a potential solution, let’s all agree to work together and come up with an audio / video infrastructure that is both efficient and functional for the largest possible group.

                              In the event that we cannot provide any one single solution that works for all, perhaps we can at least come up with either documentation or a tool, or both, to reach a working solution for all. In theory, if we know the conditions and the systems in which we can get functional audio and video, the hope and intent would be that we could also automate the inclusion and correction of software, even if it’s a non-standard solution that has to be separately applied.

                              Constructive discussion on this and other approaches? (Please keep the discussions polite so we can arrive at a helpful conclusion for as many people as possible). Thank you very much!

                              --
                              Brian Masinick

                              #116069
                              Member
                              blur13
                                $ mpv --audio-device=help
                                [W][03195.846241] pw.conf      | [          conf.c:  939 try_load_conf()] can't load config client.conf: No such file or directory
                                [E][03195.846260] pw.conf      | [          conf.c:  963 pw_conf_load_conf_for_context()] can't load default config client.conf: No such file or directory

                                The error output is mainly cosmetic, the command proceeds as usual. Setting ao=alsa in the config gets rid of all error messages in daily use, ie playing video and music.

                                It seems that pipewire also handles videostreams, and that that part of pipewire can be left intact in order to avoid the above error message. There was also a debian bug report. Not sure, you can google the error message to get more info. We’re not the first to purge pipewire from a system and get residual error messages.

                                In my case, antiX 19.5 caused pulseaudio to intermittently stop, so I disabled it completely and learned how to use alsa. Therefore I already have all the necessary config files to stream audio over hdmi to a tv, get sound in firefox, get sound in old games and video game emulators, etc. I also noticed that having pulseaudio disabled reduced cpu usage while playing audio. For example, in htop you cant only watch the cpu % of CMUS (or mpv, or whatever), you also have to add the cpu % of pulseaudio. Its similar for pipewire.

                                If I didnt have the experience of alsa I would probably think pipewire was great. In the same way I first thought pulse was great because it solved all my audio problems. Now I know better…

                                #116070
                                Moderator
                                Brian Masinick

                                  @blur13
                                  Thanks for your comment.

                                  Participants please review this conversation and see if these suggestions are relevant to your concerns or not and respond with useful information and other possibilities. Thanks!

                                  --
                                  Brian Masinick

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