Free Debian of systemd by using antiX Repos

Forum Forums General Other Distros Free Debian of systemd by using antiX Repos

  • This topic has 14 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated Jul 18-7:41 pm by ModdIt.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #63124
    Member
    LinuxFan84

    Hi guys,

    I like to do experiments with distros and so on.

    Im using Debian Bullseye/sid and im thinking about to change to antiX. AntiX is a great distro but has too many features – i will never use most of them. Beside this im not sure if i am that skilled to set up cryptsetup with minimal antiX installation to build up XFCE and all other stuff im using.

    Therefore im playing with the thoughts to remove the systemd from my current configuration and install the replacement packages from antiX.

    Someone could say.. just take Devuan but as i read on some places the antiX approach of replacing systemd is better. I was digging in this direction and searched for a good explanation and couldnt find any. I read that the arch package management system is different to apt so they have more easy job for systemd replacement (looking on artix) and on debian based systems systemd free distros have to work with priorities and version numbers of packages. But all my life im with debian so there is my home.

    Anyone has a idea what packages are required from antiX?

    #63127
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    In case you want to really customize your system at a very fine grade of flexibility, please note that we offer multiple ways to do just that. If you get antiX net, for example, you get a system with a Linux kernel and a very small set of utilities and nothing else. It’s great for building what you want, but it comes with “limitations”, since it starts from the beginning. For example, you do not have a desktop or any special networking tools, so you will require a physical network connection unless you are “clever” enough to add wireless components. Core provides a little more, but also starts with only the “core” system; you build what you want.

    Base provides a complete, working system, but only includes a few applications; you add onto it as you prefer.

    Finally, the antiX Full is a lightweight, complete distribution that still caters to old equipment, but offers multiple Linux system kernels, so you can choose the one that works best with your old or new system.

    Not all versions are “do it yourself” set-ups, but you can see from this explanation that this is certainly possible for those who prefer to make things their own way.

    The article at https://antixlinux.com/the-most-extensive-live-usb-on-the-planet/ provides a good explanation of the basic capabilities; looking around the Web site and the forum will provide many more sources of information. I hope this is helpful.

    Brian Masinick

    #63129
    Member
    LinuxFan84
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    Thank you for your answer and information.

    I saw it and it was my plan to start with antiX net (or to go with antiX core/full and purge all the things i have no usage for). But then i read somewhere that antiX net does not provide a installer that supports setting up of an LVM with crypt_LUKS, this was the point that brought me temporarily off my plan. For sure one day i will find the time to read some Gentoo or Arch tutorial regarding this point and make it run with antiX.

    antiX is great and yes .. its the most extensive live usb on the planet and even much more.. its like a swiss army knife.. for everyone something on it – for my taste too much 🙂 I have a fetish for minimalism and therefore i took debian and purged a lot of packages (avahi, the bluetooth stuff, ect.)

    My question was not only based on a end-user perspective but also of a developer view. Basically it should be possible to morph debian to antix or make a FrankenDebian out of it but still running great. At the moment i have too much work so i started this topic to see what people think about and what experience they have. But in next weeks i will do some experiments regarding it and at the end if all fails (try to morph debian, try to install antiX net and set up LVM/luks on commandline.. i will take the full edition and purge it down to the minimalism i need for peace in my life)

    #63131
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    Thanks for writing back. Though antiX is certainly NOT for everyone, it is an excellent start for those who like to put things together their own way. Of course, Linux From Scratch may be the ultimate for “do it yourself” types, but it is by far the most work. Distributions like Gentoo and Arch also have ways to produce a highly customized distribution, but over the course of my own Linux journey I developed a familiarity and a preference for Debian-style packaging, and antiX became one of my staple complements to Debian, which I also keep handy.

    Going back to the beginning of the history of this distribution, in the early 2000s a flurry of systems that could run live – straight from memory were created. Distributions like KNOPPIX, Kanotix, Feather Linux, PCLinuxOS and MEPIS emerged.

    The last one, MEPIS, was based on Debian, started with a light window manager configuration for a year or two, then changed to a very efficient desktop implementation with KDE. Right around the time that it was branded “SimplyMEPIS”, with KDE and a clean implementation, work started on personal variations. One person, who used the ID anticapitalista, indicated that he had created a light variation based on that platform with a Fluxbox window manager. He called his work antiX and contacted Warren Woodford, requesting to release it as a light variant and this was warmly accepted.

    Not long after this work emerged, I substituted IceWM for Fluxbox in my own variation and suggested to anticapitalista that this might be an easy to use alternative to Fluxbox for newbies who are not used to the conventions of Fluxbox and my suggestion was adopted. Many others have made similar suggestions, contributing either ideas or actual development effort, and today we have multiple window managers, and for those who REALLY want them, we have easy packaging solutions to add desktop environments and the packages and tools that many people ask for.

    There are not too many communities that either permit, allow, or encourage people to create their own thing, and that is what ultimately led to the creation of four main offerings, each suitable for different starting points, all of which are flexible to modify as the community members prefer.

    This approach isn’t for everyone, but it is for those who either have old equipment or for those who prefer to tinker and create their own personal system, tailored to suit their specific needs and interests. It is this area in which antiX excels. So if this is not the way you like to go, there are lots of ways to create something else, and antiX isn’t the only way to do it.

    I definitely wish you well; I do hope you decide to experiment with antiX; perhaps it will “grow on you”. If not there are a lot of good alternatives out there these days, plenty of good free software and even some proprietary software that has improved over the years. I believe in choice, including the freedom of choice, and I hope you find and embrace whatever works best for your areas of interest.

    Brian Masinick

    #63144
    Member
    marcelocripe
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    Hello LinuxFan84,

    Welcome to antiX Linux and the forum.

    Regardless of your level of knowledge about GNU/Linux, I recommend you read these excellent tutorials created by @PPC:

    Short essential how-to list for the complete Linux newbie and How-to install applications – 2020 version.

    I am far short of being able to build a system from ISO net or ISO core. But if I could correctly understand the translations of your texts into my Brazilian Portuguese language, I imagine that the information in the list of packages installed in antiX 19.4 might be useful for you to build your custom system.

    I can’t write in English and I send you my texts translated by internet translator, I hope you can understand everything.

    Skidoo wrote:

    antiX-19.4_x64-base.iso
    list of installed packages: https://pastebin.com/raw/ymEmn1U2

    antiX-19.4_x64-full.iso
    list of installed packages: https://pastebin.com/raw/X1PDkw1i

    list of packages present in FULL, absent from BASE (397 items): https://pastebin.com/raw/KBsfmEgc

    3 pkgs present in base, not in full:
    adwaita-icon-theme-antix (a slimmed-down version of pkg “adwaita-icon-theme”)
    iso-snapshot-cli-antix ( idunno, thought this had already been replaced by pkg “iso-snapshot-antix” )
    libavcodec58 (vs pkgs “libavcodec-extra” + “libavcodec-extra58” in antiX full)

    Mr. Brian Masinick,

    Thank you so much for telling us a little more about antiX’s rich history. Knowing the past is fundamental for people to value what we have today in antiX.

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    ———-

    Olá LinuxFan84,

    Seja bem-vindo ao antiX Linux e ao fórum.

    Independentemente do seu nível de conhecimento sobre GNU/Linux, eu recomendo você ler estes excelentes tutoriais criados pelo @PPC:

    Short essential how-to list for the complete Linux newbie e How-to install applications – 2020 version.

    Eu estou muito aquém de poder construir um sistema a partir da ISO net ou da ISO core. Mas se eu consegui entender corretamente as traduções dos seu textos para o meu idioma Português do Brasil, eu imagino que as informações da lista de pacotes instalados no antiX 19.4 possam ser úteis para você construir o seu sistema personalizado.

    Eu não sei escrever em inglês e te envio os meus textos traduzidos pelo tradutor da internet, eu espero que você consiga compreender tudo.

    (Os endereços de URLs das listas estão no texto traduzido para o idioma inglês)

    Sr. Brian Masinick,

    Muito obrigado por nos contar um pouco mais da rica história do antiX. Conhecer o passado é fundamental para as pessoas darem mais valor ao que temos hoje no antiX.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em Português do Brasil)

    #63145
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    @marcelocripe: Thank you for the kind words and the encouragement for others too.

    It’s remarkable to me how well you do with communication with only the help of a translation tool!

    I’m so grateful for such tools that enables us to communicate; just as English is foreign to you, English is the only spoken language that I know well. It’s so nice to communicate with you and others around the world and I am happy that the software that I’ve been passionate about plays a role in opening the doors of friendly communication throughout the world!

    Brian Masinick

    #63147
    Moderator
    christophe
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    set up cryptsetup with minimal antiX installation to build up XFCE and all other stuff im using.

    What about building up your dream system on an antiX core live-USB. Once it’s built, install to an encrypted hard drive via the antiX graphical installer.

    #63148
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    set up cryptsetup with minimal antiX installation to build up XFCE and all other stuff im using.

    What about building up your dream system on an antiX core live-USB. Once it’s built, install to an encrypted hard drive via the antiX graphical installer.

    Great suggestion!

    I go on and on about ¨ḧistory¨ and you provide a practical solution! Thanks christophe! 🙂

    Brian Masinick

    #63215
    Member
    marcelocripe
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    @Brian Masinick,

    It is I who am grateful for your kind words and also that we can communicate, even though we cannot write and read in a common language for both of us. I am very glad that the translators available on the Internet have evolved in such a way that they allow us to communicate in some way that probably would not have been possible a few years ago. You may already know this, in other GNU/Linux communities they don’t accept newbies, and especially newbies that don’t know how to write correctly in English, some communities that I passed through before I got here on this forum, simply ignore or don’t accept people that don’t master the English language, and that is a terrible form of exclusion. I am very grateful for being accepted here even though I cannot read and write in English.

    You are right, antiX plays a role in opening the doors of friendly communication between many people from all over the world, the role of antiX goes beyond the title of an “operating system” or another “software”, but this is only possible when people respect, accept and understand each other’s limitations regarding the ability to communicate and learn antiX. This space that we have here in the forum is very important, because it allows the sharing of knowledge, reduces the distance between people, unites people in favor of a fantastic operating system and consequently friendships occur naturally.

    I hope LinuxFan84 can take advantage in a healthy way of the suggestions presented here, that antiX can serve you as well as it serves me and many people here in Brazil.

    marcelocripe

    ———-

    @Brian Masinick,

    Eu é que sou grato por suas palavras gentis e ainda por podermos nos comunicar, mesmo sem conseguirmos escrever e ler em um idioma comum para ambos. Eu fico muito contente que os tradutores disponíveis na internet tenham evoluído de tal forma que permitem nos comunicar de alguma forma, provavelmente isso não seria possível há alguns anos atrás. O senhor já deve saber disso, em outras comunidades GNU/Linux não aceitam novatos, e principalmente os novatos que não sabem escrever corretamente em idioma inglês, algumas comunidades que passei antes de chegar aqui neste fórum, simplesmente ignora ou não aceita pessoas que não dominam o idioma inglês e isso é uma forma de exclusão terrível. Eu sou muito grato por me aceitarem aqui mesmo eu não sabendo ler e escrever em idioma inglês.

    O senhor tem toda razão, o antiX desempenha um papel na abertura das portas da comunicação amigável entre várias pessoas de todas as partes do mundo, o papel do antiX vai além do título de um “sistema operacional” ou de mais um “software”, mas isso só é possível quando as pessoas se respeitam, aceitam e compreendam as limitações das outras pessoas no que diz respeito a capacidade de comunicação e no aprendizado do antiX. Este espaço que temos aqui no fórum é importantíssimo, pois permite o compartilhamento do conhecimento, diminui as distância entre as pessoas, une as pessoas em pró de sistema operacional fantástico e consequentemente as amizades vão ocorrendo de forma natural.

    Eu espero que o LinuxFan84 possa aproveitar de forma saudável as sugestões apresentadas aqui, que o antiX possa atendê-lo tão bem quanto me atende e a várias pessoas daqui do Brasil.

    marcelocripe

    #63216
    Moderator
    christophe
    Helpful
    Up
    0

    Very well said, marcelocripe! 🙂

    Muito bem, marcelocripe!

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by christophe. Reason: added portuguese
    #63219
    Moderator
    Brian Masinick
    Helpful
    Up
    1

    Very well said, marcelocripe! 🙂

    Muito bem, marcelocripe!

    I agree, and I am also very thankful for the vision and long term follow through of anticapitalista.

    Yes, there are many people who contribute to this work. antiX would not be possible without the vision of our founder.

    Brian Masinick

    #63225
    Member
    LinuxFan84
    Helpful
    Up
    0

    Amen! To all of it, you guys wrote. As some of you may have noticed im also not a perfect english speaker as my main language is german. But in my opinion languages are for understand each other not for win a grammar/spelling contest.

    @christophe: i will try you suggestion to. Till now i didnt had a lot of chance to experiment with it. But as soon as i find time i will try all different options and let you guys know.

    @Brian Masinick: thank you for giving me information regarding the history and way antiX got built. Its very good antiX is open for improvements and variations. I have tried all this window managers and lightweight solutions. I am a fan of LXQt or XFCE. Although its possible to reach the same with lightweight solutions but the configuration is sometimes very time intensive. I am running modern hardware like Ryzen so basically its not about hardware or performance, more its about philosophy.

    @marcelocripe: i totally agree with you it seems antiX is more kind a lifestyle or “religion”, not only a OS.

    #63226
    Member
    LinuxFan84
    Helpful
    Up
    0

    May I ask you something else:

    As antiX is very into politics/having a polticial point i wonder that antiX does not aims more into encryption. Having a political opinion or a free speach is a very personal thing and in some countries even a dangerous one. Based on this fact, i would expect that antiX offers in every situation a suggestion “Its better to encrypt your files, do you want to [Y/N]”, no matter you install it, run it frugal ect or create a ISO from your current system. Maybe i missed something but i read all site and googled a lot about antiX.

    I personally like the snapshot function antiX provides, a great tool, but it looks like you make an unencrypted iso of your current system (including all your data).
    I coded something similar for myself based on Debian. I spent a week on it but unfortunately for any reason it was not able to boot. The process was: partition usb/create luks, mount it, rsync all files to usb structure, chroot it to edit fstab, crypttab, update lvm and run update-grub/update-initramfs …

    ——

    Regarding systemd-free:
    I also searched regarding this but did not find the reason why antiX has chosen for being free of systemd. Is it a political decision (freedom of choice) or is it only for being lightweight, as ex. for older systems?

    I found it again, the info by anticapitalista about the approach and difference to Devuan: “antiX takes a more ‘militant’ stand against systemd. We ship without systemd, libsystemd0 (I was sad to see that the latest Devuan ships with libsystemd0) and use eudev rather than the systemd infected udev. We also have our own nosystemd packages such as cups, dbus, tor etc.”

    I ask myself why here: https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2021/04/26/333/, antiX is not listed unter “healthy hardcore distros” and why other stuff like elogind got damned (by this site) and many more and if and why antiX keeps it? Also regarding this i googled a lot but didnt found the answer or got the point.

    Thank you guys.

    #63233
    Moderator
    BobC
    Helpful
    Up
    0

    You could use the forum search to look for posts by Fungalnet (I hope I spelled it right, if not try systemd). That’s his site, if I recall. You will probably also find posts by anticapitalista that might answer your why questions.

    For myself, systemd distros need more memory and are slower on my fast machines, and so slow as to be scary on my slow machines. Nothing like screens that you wait minutes for… Many people running antiX are doing so because they don’t have the hardware or money to run better machines, but are still trying to survive, experience and be a part of the world on the internet, and antiX ships with light programs that fulfill basic user requirements, and a repository that makes just about whatever you might be looking for possible…

    #63240
    Moderator
    ModdIt
    Helpful
    Up
    0

    SystemD is like a dependancy cancer running through the whole system. I had huge gibberish Logfiles (you need a systemd tool to read them).
    Painfully slow shutdowns, sometimes taking minutes waiting for mysterious processes to end. Dependency hell, want to remove some crap and it
    cripples the entire distro.

    I am really happy to be here with antiX, great forum and after distro hopping for years the feeling of having a really universaly useful OS.

    Useful to both me and users I support.

    For that many many heartfelt thanks to anticapitalista and all others who have built and nurtured this fantastic distro. My thanks too to
    those forum members who have helped me to create a really useful system for users, BobC for all the help automating application starts themes
    and streamlining ICE WM. Others for inspiration and scripts. Great guys here, working together to make maybe the best OS on the planet,
    at least for our usage case..

    Regarding encryption, I too would welcome an easy setup for claws mail encrypted messaging, gave up for now, post covid foggy brain not working
    at all well. Installing Tor Browser is easy so no issue with that. System encryption seems fine, found encrypting folders somewhat testing.

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 23 hours ago by ModdIt.
    • This reply was modified 6 days, 23 hours ago by ModdIt.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.