Future antiX

Forum Forums antiX-development Development Future antiX

  • This topic has 71 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated Apr 30-3:13 pm by Robin.
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  • #46896
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    As has been posted elsewhere in the forum, the next major release of antiX will be based on Debian 11 (‘bullseye’).
    Debian 11 is likely to be released early summer 2021.
    Upstream changes mean:

    1. Some in-built antiX apps will need modifying ie from python2 to python3. Dave has already started porting these and almost all are already in Testing/sid branch. They need testing. We need a volunteer to oversee how it is going re bugs.

    * add-key-antix
    * add-start-antix
    * antix-libs
    * app-select
    * desktop-session-antix
    * ds-mouse-antix
    * set-screen-blank-antix
    * umts-panel2
    * wallpaper-antix (work in progress)

    2. Some apps we ship with will be deprecated, so we need to find some alternatives. IMO, this is low priority at the moment.

    * disk-manager
    * fskbsetting
    * lxkeymap
    * ndisgtk
    * bittorrent

    3. No python2 app will be installable eg I use diffuse, but it does not work on testing/sid and upstream has basically abandoned it.

    As well as the above mentioned upstream changes, we have our own as well.

    1. Documentation/FAQ

    * Some of it is out of date
    * Some content needs to be written in a more newby-friendly way eg frugal install
    * New content needs to be added eg wifi-connect, TIM

    We will need volunteers to co-ordinate and write the documents.

    2. Existing antiX apps/scripts provided by the community

    * Some have been modified/extended/improved eg TIM.
    * Some may need to be modified/extended/improved especially related to localisation.

    They will need to be tested and the authors of the apps/scripts should be responsible for their maintenance (if needed).

    3. Proposals for new inclusions.

    To be clear, we encourage users to submit requests for new inclusions, changes etc. Whatever scratches your itch, go for it.
    However, don’t expect the devs to automatically include them. As an example, SamK has submitted several apps that are included in the repos, but not on the iso eg 1-1-assistance, 1-1-voice, ssh-conduit.

    Obviously, the author(s) of the apps/scripts should be responsible for their maintenance (with assistance if needed eg packaging into a deb).

    We have an excellent group of people involved with antiX. Coders, translators, forum moderators, forum question helpers plus others I’ve forgotten.
    We won’t all agree on what we consider the future of antiX, but I’m sure we will agree to keep our discussions civil and the forum a welcoming place for antiX users.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #46897
    Member
    XecureXecure

    Thanks, anticapitalista.

    I will sure help as best I can in all areas possible. I will look into the documentation and, if nobody else with more experience wants the responsibility, I will try coordinate and organize the documentation effort. Is it correct to asume I need to clone the https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/faq-docs-antix project and work on it?

    Some notes for people to know about the apps mentioned by anticapitalista:

    fskbsetting and lxkeymap are automatically uninstalled when upgrading from buster to testing.
    fskbsetting is written in python2 and is the main app that manages keyboard layout configuration in antiX. And lxkeymap is used for setting the keyboard per user/session. We need a gui program to manage XKB (X keyboard extension) options.
    Ideas: For only session/user, something that talks to setxkbmap.
    For system-wide changes, something that reads/writes to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

    fskbsetting also includes a collection of country flags that are used by repo-manager, so a replacement is needed.
    For country flags, maybe something like (or exactly) the current mx linux flags-common package (https://github.com/MX-Linux/flags-common) can be used instead for those apps that need them.

    The other python2 dependent apps listed by anticapitalista, disk-manager (most users know it as the “unmount device” button in icewm panel, but also does some other things), ndiswrapper (to install windows wireless drivers), and bittorrent still work in testing (for now). What I am not sure is about ndiswraper. Is it needed for the Network-assistant app (the tab to install windows drivers)?

    Other apps (gtk2 dependent) that may be in risk in the future (not for antiX 21, fortunately)
    – fbxkb [https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/fbxkb-antix] (flag manager placed in the system tray for changing keyboard layouts)
    – gksu [https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/gksu] (what we use to graphically give the user password to gain root privileges)
    – gexec [https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/gexec] (program to run commands and other programs. It is launched from the Menu, named “Run”)
    – gnome-ppp (used for dialup connection)
    – gtk2-engines (for qt5ct, to set up the qt5 widgets with the same theme as gtk2 theme currently used)
    – gtklp (to connect to printers using CUPS and gtk2 graphical user interface)
    – leafpad (simple and lightweight text editor included in antiX)
    – lxappearance (to change gtk apps appearance, as in gtk2/3 widget themes, icons, fonts, cursor themes, etc.)
    – lxtask (simple gui for resource monitoring, similar to htop but “nicer” looking)
    – mtpaint (very simple pixel image editor)
    – rox-filer [] (Our very well known Rox filer, that manages both desktop icons and helps us explore our files, and that is the default FM on antiX)
    – searchmonkey (a program to search and find our files, very fast and powerful)
    (there are probably more, but this is what I could find so far)

    Other mentions that have alternatives ready:
    – roxterm-gtk2 [https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/roxterm-antix] (current default terminal emulator in antiX) – There is a GTK3 version available.
    – spacefm (there is a gtk3 version ready)
    – volumeicon-alsa-legacy (volumeicon-alsa is the gtk3 replacement)

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Xecure. Reason: gtk2 apps that are safe for now
    #46898
    Member
    XecureXecure

    <big>How to help test (recommended in a VM):</big>
    – Set up antiX 19.3 base, upgrading it from buster to testing, in any of two different ways.
    A. Try to upgrade before installing (6 GBs of RAM required, this is not a joke).
    B. Install first, upgrade everything, create a new user.

    1. To upgrade, first:
    sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
    to install the latest buster packages. Say yes (Y) to all questions ansked.
    sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt autocelan && sudo apt clean
    to free some RAM/disk space, removing old packages

    2. Launch the repo manager (Control Centre > Maintenance > Repo manager) to change the repos.
    You need to (in the third tab), disable (deselect) all buster-backports and buster-updates sources.
    You need to change (as in deselect and select) the “buster” option in antix.list for the “testing” one (deb http://mirror.site/antix/testing testing)
    You need to change the “buster” and “buster-security” options in the debian.list for “testing” and “testing-security” (the same as before).
    Apply (and if you want to get faster Debian repo, do it) and close.

    3. Prepare for the upgrade to testing (many steps and errors will come up).
    sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
    Answer yes (Y) to every question. First few packages installing will lead to and error. You will need to
    sudo apt -f install
    to fix it, then again
    sudo apt full-upgrade
    it will stop again. You need to autoremove packages
    sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt autoclean
    and again try upgrading
    sudo apt full-upgrade
    You may have to repeat this process a few time until almost all the 880 packages are installed. For some reason, some gcc and python2 related packages will be kept back. Except for these, you are almost done.

    4. Reinstall desktop-session-antix
    sudo apt install --reinstall desktop-session-antix
    Very important to fix some duplication of other-desktop sessions.

    5. Install if running live (don’t keep home changes), or create a new user if already installed.

    6. Reboot and (hopefully) enter to your upgraded antiX testing VM.
    Test the apps listed above (recently migrated) and any other ones the dev team needs to be checked.

    #46900
    Member
    AvatarPPC

    @anticapitalista – great post! Nice leadership stance! Also very nice knowing what’s antiX future in the next year into more detail…
    I offer my help on creating T.I.M’s documentation (should I mention the upgraded version that’s practically ready) or still the current one?

    Where to send my contributions (probably many people would like some details about such practical questions – loads of people are eager to help as they can)

    About the programs being deprecated – I haven’t really used much any of those, but one will probably not be too hard to replace – the bittorrent – there are dozens of available clients…
    The keyboard configuration tools are what probably be most missed by international users, I’ll keep my eye out for alternatives (or think about an easy GUI to change keyboard layouts- but I do not have much experience with that…)

    I also suggest (once again) that, in a future version antiX throws a “bone” to newbies, including, on the default toolbar some sort of OS update application (antiX-updater or any other better alternative) instead of the “root file manager” icon…

    @Xecure – I don’t own any computer with more than 4 Gig of RAM 🙁 I was thinking of using a live usb device to do some testing…

    P.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by PPC.
    #46902
    Forum Admin
    AvatarSamK

    1. Documentation/FAQ

    * Some of it is out of date
    * Some content needs to be written in a more newby-friendly way eg frugal install
    * New content needs to be added eg wifi-connect, TIM

    We will need volunteers to co-ordinate and write the documents.

    My preference is for the author of a community contributed script to be responsible for producing the user guide for inclusion in the antiX-FAQ. The user guide should be considered as important as the script itself, i.e. the work is seen as incomplete without both parts.

    The user guide needs to be a meaningful document rather than a brief few lines. To help with the structure of the doc the FAQ entries for Streamlight or Alsamixer-Plus could serve as useful templates.
    http://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/docs-antiX-19/FAQ/streamlight.html
    http://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/docs-antiX-19/FAQ/alsamixer.html

    #47020
    Member
    marcelocripemarcelocripe

    Very well!

    Now we have the action plan.

    Whenever there are updates to the files or the sending of new files on the transifex website, please inform me by private email, I believe that administrators and moderators should have access to my registration email, feel free to communicate to me, or via personal message from the forum. However, through email it is more certain that I will see the message and have access to information, the message here on the forum is not sure that I will see it.

    I saw a little while ago that there was an update in the file “mxfb-goodies”, but it was unintentionally, finding an update in this way is not certain of my collaboration.

    I want to collaborate with what I get.

    Thankful.

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    ———-

    Muito bem!

    Agora temos o roteiro das ações.

    Sempre que houver atualizações nos arquivos ou o envio de novos arquivos no site transifex, por favor, me informem por e-mail particular, eu acredito que os administradores e os moderadores devem ter acesso ao meu e-mail de cadastro, fiquem a vontade para me comunicarem, ou via mensagem pessoal daqui do fórum. Contudo, através de e-mail é mais certeza de eu ver a mensagem e ter acesso a informação, a mensagem aqui do fórum não é certeza de eu ver.

    Eu vi agora a pouco que teve atualização no arquivo “mxfb-goodies”, mas foi sem querer, encontrar atualização dessa forma não é certeza da minha colaboração.

    Eu quero colaborar com o que eu consigo.

    Grato.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em Português do Brasil)

    #47039
    Member
    manyroadsmanyroads

    FWIW. I have converted my Intel gen. 10 laptop to antiX19 testing. Looking down the list of apps, I use only 2 of them. I have removed the others. I am happy to add lxtask to my list of system monitors. The three I can assist in testing include:

    -lxtask
    -lxappearance
    -gksu

    Pax vobiscum,
    Mark Rabideau - http://many-roads.com
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
    dwm ~Reg. Linux User #449130
    20 Jan 2021 ~ "End of an Error"

    #47057
    Moderator
    christophechristophe

    I followed Xecure’s directions with 19.3 base, and made an ISO-snapshot of the resulting 32-bit 19.3 testing antiX. It’s 942 MB.

    If anyone wants to use it to test, whether from live or installed, it will be available for download for the forseeable future:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ktchmh7o4jae0zt/AADTLzczAIurQ1Z3xVQAfzf-a?dl=0

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by christophe.
    #47059
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    -lxtask
    -lxappearance
    -gksu

    mate-system-monitor provides a suitable gtk3 replacement for lxtask
    (and its functionality is slightly superior to lxtask, IMO)
    installs 13MB files on disk; 28MB runtime memory footprint on a 64bit system

    Due to the spaghetti-like complexity of gtk3 theming environment (many files, many places for overrides to occur), we will probably never see a desktop environment agnostic, feature-compatible, replacement for lxappearance. For a theme previewer (does not set//select//change the active theme), the most appealing utility I have found is “awf-extended
    (scroll down the linked page to view screenshots of its user interface)

    For the sake of continued viability of lxappearance, as well as gksu (and libgksu), and gexec (the Alt+F2 runner),
    I hope that antiX repositories can host their dependent packaged gtk2 libraries.

    #47065
    Member
    XecureXecure

    Let’s not get too distracted.
    The programs that needs testing are:

    * add-key-antix
    * add-start-antix
    * antix-libs
    * app-select
    * desktop-session-antix
    * ds-mouse-antix
    * set-screen-blank-antix
    * umts-panel2
    * wallpaper-antix (work in progress)

    The other gtk2 programs are still safe for now.

    My experience with desktop-session-antix (including desktop-menu), app-select, and add-start-antix in testing is good.
    Changing “Other Desktops” worked well. The Applications menu had no duplicate category entries (fantastic work), and updated properly after installing/uninstalling programs.
    There was a bug in SpaceFM desktop icon manager, that right-click on the desktop didn’t launch the window manager menu, like if the options were reset after upgrading (and I needed to enable WM right-click menu from the File Manager properties window). My guess is that it is related to upgrading from buster, and that should not happen when using the final antiX release.
    Rox+JWM didn’t display any right-click menu on the desktop, but the right-click menu worked on Space and normal (no desktop icon manager) JWM.

    App-select worked well (as it does in buster, but the newer buster version doesn’t have the “Enter” launches app, which I miss, but it not related to any bug). no strange behaviour here.

    Add-start seems to work well on icewm, fluxbox and jwm. I didn’t test the other add-desktop or add-key yet.

    For ds-mouse-antix and set-screen-blank-antix I will first have to install testing on real hardware, so no comments yet.

    #47074
    Forum Admin
    AvatarSamK

    Let’s not get too distracted.
    The programs that needs testing are:

    * add-key-antix
    * add-start-antix
    * antix-libs
    * app-select
    * desktop-session-antix
    * ds-mouse-antix
    * set-screen-blank-antix
    * umts-panel2
    * wallpaper-antix (work in progress)

    The other gtk2 programs are still safe for now.

    @ Xecure
    Thanks for trying to ensure the focus is on the announced priorities.

    https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/future-antix/#post-46896

    Abstract (emphasis added)

    1. Some in-built antiX apps will need modifying ie from python2 to python3. Dave has already started porting these and almost all are already in Testing/sid branch. They need testing. We need a volunteer to oversee how it is going re bugs.
    […]

    2. Some apps we ship with will be deprecated, so we need to find some alternatives. IMO, this is low priority at the moment.
    […]

    1. Documentation/FAQ

    * Some of it is out of date
    * Some content needs to be written in a more newby-friendly way eg frugal install
    * New content needs to be added eg wifi-connect, TIM

    We will need volunteers to co-ordinate and write the documents.
    […]

    2. Existing antiX apps/scripts provided by the community…
    They will need to be tested and the authors of the apps/scripts should be responsible for their maintenance (if needed).

    To help with creation of docs a format is outlined here
    https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/future-antix/#post-46902

    #47258
    Forum Admin
    DaveDave

    Updated wallpaper-antix package should now be available for testing in the testing and sid repos

    Edit:
    Noticed this on the MX forum from the new recruitment.
    https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=62023

    I did not test for resource consumption vs fsxkbsetting vs a gtk3 option.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Dave.

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #47377
    Member
    Avatarseaken64

    I read Xecures instructions but I am wondering if my hardware installed system will be sufficient for testing instead of a VM. I have a Full “testing” version of antiX-19 installed on a hard drive. I update it regularly.

    Can I just create a new user for testing?

    Seaken64

    #47380
    Moderator
    christophechristophe

    @seaken64
    I am new to this. But what I did was update (on one frugal install) all the repos to “testing” and performed the upgrades as Xecure posted above. That seems to be the same as you have (only yours is a full-install). The programs you have must be from the testing repo, so any usage of the needed programs (by any user) should be valid for testing purposes. So I think “yes.” But I also don’t think you need a separate user, unless you want to.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by christophe.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by christophe.
    #47387
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    I read Xecures instructions but I am wondering if my hardware installed system will be sufficient for testing instead of a VM. I have a Full “testing” version of antiX-19 installed on a hard drive. I update it regularly.

    Can I just create a new user for testing?

    Seaken64

    @seaken64
    I am new to this. But what I did was update (on one frugal install) all the repos to “testing” and performed the upgrades as Xecure posted above. That seems to be the same as you have (only yours is a full-install). The programs you have must be from the testing repo, so any usage of the needed programs (by any user) should be valid for testing purposes. So I think “yes.” But I also don’t think you need a separate user, unless you want to.

    Just using Testing as the repo will suffice.

    By the way I have experimented many times with going from a stable version to the testing version with very few issues.

    The only time it doesn’t work out well is when the Debian-based repos are in the middle of a major shift of library packages or significant change.

    Stuff like changing from Gtk2 to Gtk3 is a big deal, but as long as the migration of the packaging is completely done and not halfway through the changes even big changes can work as long as they are not riddled full of serious bugs that disturb the whole system.

    About a year ago now I added a repo to my Debian distribution on another partition. I thought that I was adding the repo to add one app that I wanted to try. I didn’t look at the repo arguments carefully. Guess what?

    The added repo brought in Sid. When I ran a package update I saw my error. I thought, : What the heck, I will let it go and I will have a Debian Sid system if it works (once again) and I will reinstall a Debian system if it fails.

    No critical libraries were in the middle of a migration and a careless mistake resulted in a wild, but safe migration from Debian Stable to Debian Sid.

    I’ve done it before and you might be surprised to learn that 70-80% or more of the time it’s possible to get from Debian Stable to Debian Testing or Den Sid. Just don’t try to do it during the middle of a significant package migration.

    Similar story with antiX. I have done this for antiX too. I once created a Core distribution and turned it into a really good antiX Core Sid.

    In fact the instance I created was antiX Core Sid with Xfce and select applications, very similar to the MX Linux today except mine was custom made for Sid and Xfce prior to 2010, a few years before MEPIS departure and MX Linux arrival.

    When I first saw MX Linux I thought, oh good, a stable version of my ancient ‘experiment’.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

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