- This topic has 35 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Oct 31-8:45 am by blur13.
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calciumsodium
Adding unnecessary and unproductive complexities, dependencies and half cooked trinkets
To me, I would be very careful about using this language. It could be interpreted as being hurtful when I read this. Many of the forum members have contributed a lot. They have a lot of creativity. For example, one of many, is the Android Device USB Connect script, that is now an intergral part of antiX was created by PPC. As I understand it, at the time of its creation, that script was not part of antiX. But over time, it became an essential part of antiX. The value of a program may become valuable over time.
With that being said, I do like the simplicity and efficiency of antiX, especially the base version. Everything that I really need on a daily basis can be achieved using less than 3 Gb of installed disk space.
ModdIt
@olstyn what exactly is half baked and an unproductive complexity in the additions to antiX.
Which, in detail please are half cooked trinkets and why.———————————————————————————————–
What to one is unneccesary is in daily use by others, there is no gold standard by which all
additions should be judged.Belittling the work of persons like BoBC PPC is pretty shameful, they and others have made
great contributions toward making antiX a distro which a new user can adapt to very quickly.Anyone wanting the minimum of applications can use the basic antiX versions and desktops or
just remove what is considered as personaly unneeded applications or trinkets. sic..I am very impressed with antiX,
easily, the best distro I have ever used.
Very thankful to all who have invested time and thought toward making it even better in the future.
Better too in the sense it is more easy for a new user to adapt to. We can read in the forum, ask users
and incrementaly make improvements to the user experience in which usability for new users plays a massive
role .I am for example happy with rox, users adapt to it very quickly, want sound to stay with alsa for
best quality. Would love to see firefox ESR replaced with LibreWolf, at present a problem for 32
bit users.
And see4 the phone mount script more universal, unfortunately it fails for some devices.
A script from PPC exists, I have not managed to integrate it in the included in distro variant.On Looks, and message nothing seems to beat Metro. Jump in and take a ride.
Debian, the mother ship is rapidly evolving, I see it almost daily, there will be a plethora of
minor and major changes to get used to, especialy in regard to file systems. I follow the flow,
running sid and enjoying the experience. It can be less stable than Bullseye but if nobody uses
it who can give feedback and help now and in the future.My most sincere thanks and respect for the work of all those contributing to antiX.
Especialy anticapitalista whos views and opinions I greatly respect respect.
In strong contrast to capitalist Morons both in and reseeking power over others to
rake in even more gold bars to gloat over.regarding Distrowatch as an opinion maker, DW is highly censored and expresses the opinion of a couple of
site running persons who remove posts and reviews in an entirely intransparent manner.
Filter out posts on the basis of IP adresses used by Vodafone cable as an exit point. That shuts out
a huge number of potential posters. The Bookmarks included in antiX have been criticized many times,
the quality of the distro rarely even mentioned let alone praised as it justly deserves.@olstyn
Hopefully anticapitalista has some ideas what is next on his development plate for the good of humanity…
– Has such time arrived perhaps that antiX’ owner might want consider correcting his forum username to antixcapitalista,You need to learn to respect others. Your snide remarks are often below the belt.
oops
For me antiX must stay light, efficient for olds and new computers, and not too far from the Debian base (less work to do ).
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by oops.
PPC
hi, everyone! I did not want to start a small revolution here in this thread!
Here are some points:
– I’m not offended, at all with people that think my ideas or scripts are unneeded trinkets- one man’s trinket is another man’s gold- there are some antiX features that I never or seldom use, but that are essential to some users- for me, as long as no extra system resources are used, the ISO size does not increase too much and the menu does not get even more complex, the more features antiX has available the better!
– The apps I suggest adding to Package Installer are just that- suggestions- I see no reason at all why having more apps available in what is our very own app store (hey just look at P.I.’s icon- it’s exactly what it is) would be a problem- I suggested, long ago, that anti included all the main apps for some activities (like working with video, working with audio, etc)
– Most of the UI and inclusion of extra features that I suggested (excluding the flatpak and some others) are already available, officially in antiX repo – I do not want to start a new Distro, so I went the Transformation Pack route- ft10-transformation is (and has been for a while) a official antiX package that uses some U.I. concepts from KDE or Windows 10 and 11- here is it’s “homepage”: https://gitlab.com/antix-contribs/ft10-transformation/-/blob/main/README.md it includes a link for the Youtube video about it that BobC created (thanks for that once again)- you can install it, and then enable it from the menu (or disable it and get back to your default antiX look and feel)- no it does not use loads of system resources- I run it on all my computers, even my 32bits/1gb or RAM 20 years old laptop – and it uses about the same system resources as antiX rox-icewm desktop with conky running (I recommend disabling conky and desktop icons with FT10- since most of those features are available under FT10 U.I.- so you may even save some system resources- I created FT10, I updated it, the work as already been done (some localization still has to be improved, sorry for that Wallon, I’ve not forgotten your suggestions).- I usually say that icewm antiX full + FT10 is about as feature rich and easy to use (for most common tasks) as an android device- I created it for myself, but I realized it could be helpful for people migrating from Windowz, to have not a clone of it’s UI, but the same basic concepts of usability and functions – so it has even extra trickets like: a fully working (although basic) Calendar with alarms, a World Clock, a “weather app”, a “news app” and a “translator app” (that require a network connection but not a browser- so they run fine even on computers that have problems running the modern web), a “maps apps” (basicaly a .desktop that launches OSM on the default browser), easy and fast ways to add/remove favourites to the menu and toolbar, zzzfm with all my previous suggestions implemented, etc.
Even with all that, the package size is minimal – it only installs the extras you choose to install… For some random reason you came from Windows 10 and you miss Menu Tiles – hey, you can have them, do you like Windows 11 simple menu that lists pinned + all apps and? you can have it, you like a Categories based menu with integrated search? Have it, it’s already done, it took months of hard work, combining many extra apps and configuring them, and/or creating new scripts (like the world clock one, etc)- I even found a non resource heavy way to remember users to check for updates (if they choose so), or warn users if new versions of the packages are available but not installed (and no, no Deamon is running on the background- I never use that, except, kinda of, when calendar alarms are running)- so no extra CPU usage, no extra RAM usage…– I use the terminal all the time, even so, when I started using antiX, I realized that I had to learn, on-line how to set the correct time using the terminal!… so I helped create a GUI for that… My reasoning was this- to be fully usable (and not just by us “geeks”) any OS’s basic tasks can’t force the user to use the Terminal- stuff like setting the time and date, updating the system, finding recent launched files, installing packages – should not force users to learn to use the terminal- I use the terminal for most of that- but I had to learn to do it, over time… let users find their way to the terminal, discover how powerful it is- not just say – “hey it’s easy- open the terminal and enter these random words there. Oh? You are afraid it may nuke your computer because you don’t know what that does?… tough luck, RTFM”…
– I make plenty of usability and UI suggestions (even some simple ones, like moving app-select to the top of the menu)- to make life simpler for new users, and not mess up life for us antiX old timers- I remember how it was when I first came to Linux, I though- “this OS makes my computer really usable once again, but it’s as ugly as sin and almost every single thing I want to do is hard” ( man, even adding an icon to the taskbar required editing a config file!)…
In antiX you can always use the terminal, or edit config files… but most people with aging computers do not know how to do that… That’s why I like having GUI’s for basic tasks- a yad script offers a nice looking and “easy” GUI, and is literally just a few kb’s of disk space… I created antiX updater- I click the warning to use the GUI to check for updates when it comes up in FT10, but usually I update the system via the terminal, I search for apps using the terminal, etc.- but most people prefere GUI’s- it’s enough having to use the Terminal when something goes wrong, there’s no need to force “regular people” to use it for common daily tasks.
A study found that about 90% of computer users only know how to perform basic tasks- do you think a small child that just wants to play some games, an old granny that just wants to check her e-mail, even a regular young person used to just touch devices want to use the Terminal? I’m not an elitist, I’m an inclusive guy… everyone should profit from antiX- that’s the reasoning for most of my suggestions.Sorry for the long rant! Thanks for your ideas and support!
P.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
oops
… Right PPC, if it is “as option” this can be a plus (and sometimes a must have, so to integrate to the antiX base).
Also on topic of suggestions for antiX’s improvement- here’s something you don’t see every day- I’m suggesting a new icewm menu entry (ideally under “Settings”?) – an option that can toggle between screens (handy if you are conecting a laptop to an external monitor)- icewm-menu-xrandr (please read about it in https://ice-wm.org/man/icewm-menu-xrandr )
P.
Hi PPC had to grin at
do you think a small child that just wants to play some games, an old granny that just wants to check her e-mail, even a regular young
person used to just touch devices want to use the TerminalOn the setup I pass on email is automagicaly downloaded and displayed by claws on desktop 1.
I am now also older than many of the grannys around my home town…For a young kid I put all the starters in the task bar. He did and does though use the terminal to update.
His bash alias is just that, update. Majority of users install antix themselves, some need help, I really like to see the pride in their eyes
on first boot.I do like to ensure a backup is available, especialy for kids and just suggest to parents running live is best option on shared devices.
I want kids to explore their system, if they break it not a tragedy. I broke linux so many times in the last years fingers and toes are not
enough to count how often. :-).I really like the transformation pack idea far more than respins.
Been playing with a plan to beg,steal,borrow many more of both your and others ideas to completely script my changes additions and application
removals. See if my last couple of semi functional neurons are up to the task. Much is mix and match, test head bang and try again.olsztyn
Adding unnecessary and unproductive complexities, dependencies and half cooked trinkets
It is surprising that some readers just look at the above part, cut out of the entire sentence and separated from context, and quickly apply this to PPC… I do not.
This was a part of a general statement not having anyone in particular in mind.
Just as @oops mentioned interface to android (developed by PPC) is a valuable addition to antiX, I want to mention another contribution by PPC, namely SMB shares discovery and mapping utility – SMBmap. I think such would also be a good one to add to antiX, to complement existing Connectshares. Unfortunately this useful utility is not currently made available separately but only as part of entire FT10 set…
There are many other contributions of PPC and other antiX contributors that must not be overlooked. These are examples that so quick applying the quoted attributes of software to PPC by some readers is not justified.Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
Brian Masinick
I honestly do not think that any of the suggestions given here are unreasonable, though not every single one of us will use every single one of them. For example, I’ve tried PPC’s FT10; I think it’s an excellent tool for MANY people and as I noted, I have tried it. While I do not use it on a regular basis, simply because I have my own personal collection of scripts, tools, and methods, it doesn’t mean for a second that I am opposed to it’s availability; I’m not.
Same with other tools: some people need them, others don’t; it all depends on our specific use cases. As a distributor of a light, lean distribution, it is, however, advantageous to at least OFFER several of these handy tools. They are much more efficient than many of the other graphically integrated tools – those can be handy as well, but they consume considerably more resources on some of the really older or challenged hardware systems, and therefore, those handy scripts become more valuable.
The only thing I do object to is when people start attacking one another over the choices in their tools; if we make things available, either in our repositories or a menu entry to small scripts that are only a few KB in size, there is very little, if any, penalty that we pay in the cases where some of us don’t use those tools. On the other hand, if they are baked directly into an advanced desktop environment with fancy graphics and potentially also in compiled code, this has a very significant impact on the size and speed of our offerings. It’s not to suggest that those techniques aren’t useful as well, it’s simply that OUR primary objective is to remain as lean and efficient as possible, whereas other distributions, for example Linux Mint and Ubuntu, serve the full size graphical user interface community well with their full-featured (but resource intensive) interfaces, applications, and services.
I love the fact that the overall Linux ecosystem has both lean, efficient choices along with other powerful, expensive, resource intensive choices. We’re here primarily to develop, maintain, and support the lean and efficient choices.
Please remember we’re not here to blast or criticize, we’re simply here to provide one of the more efficient alternatives in the freely available software community. More specifically, direct, personal attacks are against our forum policies; please express your opinions, but discuss the advantages and disadvantages without making personal attacks while explaining your position. Thank you for adhering to these guidelines.
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Brian MasinickBobC
Open to opinions, nothing changed code wise, just graphics and minor configuration changes.
It doesn’t so much matter to the real techies, I know, but why not make IceWM look really good? First impressions are important.
BTW, I implemented the Horizontal Edge Switching, where if you hold the mouse at the left or right edge longer than 1.5 seconds, it takes you to your next workspace in that direction. I also put in a request to allow us to use that when moving windows to make it slick moving windows from one workspace to another. It would be nice, but not sure if the Devs are willing. No reply, yet on it.
PS: I thought about adding Icons for App-Select and Toolbar Icon Manager. I think those are good ideas.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by BobC.
Attachments:
techore
Very pretty. I am partial to dark themes and blue. 😀
@BobC – God dammit, man, just creat BobOS, I’ll be the first in line to try it 🙂
Now seriously – great looking theme – but not quite my taste… If it was up to me I would to this:
– move the window icons (minimize, maximize, close) a bit lower (like in your previous theme, they seem a bit too high to me, not in the middle of the vertical space)
– I love the colour effect of focused window on the toolbar – I would make that effect the default for selected menu entries and the focused window’s title bar.
– I’m not too keen on the blue menu margins (it’s a personal choice, if you want contrast, I would use a slightly different colour that the one used in the menu background, just so people know where the menu ends…
– A new “start menu icon”? Maybe the four squares most people are used to see (but filed with the same blue efect you used in the toolbar’s selected window title?)As always, very nicely done, Bob
Edit: can’t that 1.5 seconds “trick” be used to tile the window instead switching to other work spaces (most people, me included do not use multiple work spaces) and that was used in enlightenment (I think it was in that desktop) and drove me crazy…
P.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by PPC.
Yes, I wasn’t paying attention to the positions of the icons on the desktop. I’m not really advocating changing what we have there. If its not broke, don’t fix it. antiX has the very best installer of any distro I’ve seen. Who cares about glitz when it has almost any option you could want, and runs so fast that its done by the time you can key in your user id and password 🙂
I see what you mean about the positioning of the icons in the title bar. I think its caused by the title bar being taller. I’ll have to look at it. One thing I want to do when it all looks right is to reuse as many of the components as I can as links rather than files for the other variations of the theme so that the set takes up a lot less space.
The colors used to highlight on the active taskbar button, active menu selections, and title bar are actually all the same (actually the same pic even), and are colors that I stole from the marbles pic itself. That’s why everything seems to belong.
As for the separator bars on the menu, should they just be a slightly lighter color than the background of the menu itself?
Menu icon… Yes, at work they say “Click on the Hamburger” not realizing its a menu icon. A nice one using the same blue isn’t a bad idea.
In general, I was trying to make it look more polished, a little easier to work, and at the same time reduce the disk space required.
1.5 seconds is still too low on the edge switch delay. I’ll probably up it to 2 seconds and try to make it more noticeable (right now it puts up a little arrow) that its counting down to switching. I think the key is that its good to have when you want to switch, but you don’t want it to be switching unintentionally all the time. If it was a nice setup, people might like and use multiple desktops to allow them to have their screens less cluttered and crowded.
Thanks for the comments. BTW, I also created a similar matching setup using a lighter shade of blue.
PS: Is anyone interested in having compositing? I got it working so Rox-Term is partially transparent, ant it looks cool, but really not sure I would want it that way all day long.
christophe
PS: Is anyone interested in having compositing? I got it working so Rox-Term is partially transparent, ant it looks cool, but really not sure I would want it that way all day long.
I get roxterm partially transparent by adjusting the current profile preferences in roxterm. (It doesn’t work OOTB installing roxtrm in antiX core, but in base, it works.)
I DO love your icewm themes, btw BobC. Using antiX Magic right now….
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
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