- This topic has 52 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Jul 9-9:37 pm by Robin.
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BobC
I don’t come here to read stuff to upset me, and I have a hard time digesting the idea that any war is great. Avoiding a war would be great. Anyway, I agree with skidoo. There are so many places on the net to post this. Why here?
I would rather stick to discussions relevant to computers and how people have/do/or might use them for good.
anticapitalista
The kafeneio is not a compulsory read. If you don’t like the topics posted, just ignore them; they die out eventually.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
sw-ekb
internet troll
You?
Why again and again you start talking about things that dont have a relationship with this thread?
My quotes are escaped from context, I answered to “Jewish world government”, “Stalin Killer billions”, “USSR oppressed the peoples of the world” that uxer said.
I understand, brainwashing is put on a high level, you sees the speck in another’s eye and ignores the log in his own.CPU: Single Core AMD Sempron 3000+ speed: 1607 MHz Kernel: 4.9.0-264-antix.1-amd64-smp x86_64
Mem: 940.3/2759.1 MiB Storage: 186.32 GiB Shell: bash 5.0.3sw-ekb
hard time digesting the idea that any war is great. Avoiding a war would be great.
Of course you are right.
Look how many grief brought war to people.Destroyed cities.
Killed civilians.
Concentration camps.
Genocide.
It is not possible to forget and say that it was not.
CPU: Single Core AMD Sempron 3000+ speed: 1607 MHz Kernel: 4.9.0-264-antix.1-amd64-smp x86_64
Mem: 940.3/2759.1 MiB Storage: 186.32 GiB Shell: bash 5.0.3Robin
Since you ask to stick to your theme, I’ll not go into details about Shoah right now. But you asked for questions, and indeed I have some.
Let me say right at the beginning, to avoid misunderstandings: I’m feeling deep sorrow when thinking of all the Russian poeple and their relatives, who have been killed and wounded in this war, murdered by SS-squads behind the frontline, and maltreated by patriotic folks coming from Germany. This is not be narrowed on Russian people, but my sympathy equally goes out to all others who had to suffer from NS-Germany. But you asked to stick to your theme, so I’ll discuss here merely what is relevant under this constrained point of view.At the same time, the USSR and Russia removed their troops from Germany.
There wouldn’t have been any concern about them staying, from point of view of the people and everyday living. I’m sure they would have been welcome as friends. But there are political bondages, which are historically grown from the years after 1945. Since Germany is part of NATO, there is nothing strange about US as well as other NATO member countries are military present in Germany. Just as German army is present in other NATO countries, most time of the year for training. I’m in doubt whether you can call this still occupation. What do you try to construct here? Is this kind of new conspiracy theory?
Back to your original theme.
Russia is a great country, has ever been. And Russia has a great and long culture. It has born great writers, artists, philosophers, architects, musicians and composers… Many of its people are hospitable. It is a shame, a disgrace, Germans did attack Russia. Nothing can be done about that, it has happened.Another question, to which I cant find any answer: What do you believe, how it was possible, cultivated people who had Immanuel Kant, Herder, Goethe, Schiller and many others among their ancestors, representing and advocating the spirit of humanity, could have been falling back into barbarian pre-enlightenment thinking and acting? Allowing Shoah to happen. Starting war not only against Russia, but against any other country within their reach? Recent results of the latest research proved, they actually planned to make war on USA also (“Amerikabomber”), once they would have had subjugated Europe completely… So what you call restrictively “Great patriotic war” was indeed a world wide war, not only between Russia and Germany. Russia was part of the alliance of countries fighting against a Germany whose people were gone collectively mad, following their “Führer”. I do understand you need some catchy formulated expression to bring people in line behind your ideas. But it is simply not true, Russia didn’t have a private war with Germany. It was a world war. So call it what it really was. If you have an answer: Who has invented this war glorifying expression »Великая Отечественная война« as an official language regulation in Russia, and why is this expression still in use today? There is nothing great about any war. And it was not patriotic, it was world wide.
in every family there is a deceased, a participant or those who survived it in the rear, there are families who died completely – as 6 million Jews.
There were not only people in Russia being killed by the german attacks. Again, the victims of german world power fantasies lived also in Britain, France, Poland, Greece, Czechoslovakia and many other countries.
Even if it was years before Soviet era, during the tsaristic era that Russia had attacked and occupied its neighbours. What is the point of keeping them under impressment, even if people of these other cultures have had clearly expressed they wanted to get their own state back? Wouldn’t have it been the duty of the new Soviet government stright after revolution to free these people instead of sending red army to kill people standing for their culture? How could they justify keeping these countries Russia had stolen under the tsar? I can’t understand this.
Take into consideration this was one of the excuses nazis had used to justify making war on other countries. They simply said: “We are late in occupying parts of the world, just as other countries (among them not at least Russia) did before. So let’s start right now, let’s ensure our share”. Don’t misread me, it was a crime what Germans of those days did and what they thought. But the question is to be allowed whether Soviet Russia was actually what it portrayed itself to be in its own propaganda.Another question: Would the war that Germany unleashed have been possible without Stalin’s permission to invade other countries? The sharing of Poland between the two dictators was the beginning of the war. Would there ever have been a Second World War if Russia had stopped the Germans when they invaded Poland in 1939 already, together with the other countries who were allied with Poland? Instead, Stalin and Hitler had long since secretly decided on the partition of Poland. Hitler’s popular support grew mainly through his apparent success in realising his great power fantasies, in combination with this baneful patriotism. Patriotism blinded people to the cruelty of their deeds. Under this aspect, how does people in Russia assess the role of Stalin and the Soviet Union in the genesis of that war?
And what is your point of excluding this role of Soviet Union from history, only focussing on the german breach of the Non-Aggression Pact between Hitler and Stalin and its secret appendix protocol? A crime among two dictators, who were both nothing but criminals? To pose this question is not to debase in any way the memory of the victims of the German invasion of the Soviet Union.Next question. What kind of presumptuousness is it for a country to declare itself a world power, an empire? This is sheer megalomania. It doesn’t matter whether it is Russia, the USA or China. Germany under the Nazis also once had these fantasies of world power. We all know to what that has led. This much-vaunted patriotism is nothing but a kind of religion, usually imposed by the state and firmly anchored in the brains of young children by means of a permanent public and media presence. Children who are “allowed” to cheer for their respective leaders, their country, while waving small flags.
It is exactly this patriotism that makes wars possible. Patriotism is defended with the same fanaticism as a religion is defended by its adherents. It is the catalyst that allows masses of people to be driven to war. It is the vehicle that permits people to feel superior to others. It is the soil on which National Socialism flourished. The war between Germany and Russia could only be fought because the dictators on both sides knew exactly how to stultify the population with this patriotism.
I believe I can read it from your contributions here also. Don’t take this as an accusation. If you feel this way, there is nothing wrong about it, for you personally. But please don’t try to use modern mass medium internet to promote it. You can produce incredible damage this way. Remember Shoah. Again, Russia IS a great country, its people are good people with whom one wishes friendship and peace. Only stupid believe in the fairy tale of the “big bad Russia” in the East. So my final question on your topic is: Does Russia, I mean its people, really need this patriotism? And if so, why?Please put your original (untranslated) answer (probably cyrillic, in Russian language) below the automatic translation. This makes it easier to sort out any kind of mistranslation. Some of your thoughts and sentences are hardly understandable, which is caused by the automatic translation. If there would be the original text below, this would be a great help in understanding, allowing a second translation attempt.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
sw-ekb
I have some.
Thanks for your comment and your questions, as there are many of them, I will answer not immediately and for each individual comment if you do not mind.
Спасибо за ваш комментарий и ваши вопросы, так как их много, я отвечу не сразу и на каждый отдельным комментарием, если вы не возражаете.
CPU: Single Core AMD Sempron 3000+ speed: 1607 MHz Kernel: 4.9.0-264-antix.1-amd64-smp x86_64
Mem: 940.3/2759.1 MiB Storage: 186.32 GiB Shell: bash 5.0.3
rokytnji
The ghost of my DAd in me mentioned to me he is glad AntiX is running great for you.
I can still see the golf ball busted veins setup on his legs from wheel barrowing bodies for the russians in Poland. As a kid I wondered how much that hurt.
While being starved to death with a small potato a day he had to fight for.Mom just rolled her eyes when she read this thread. Cossack/Mongol.
They both walked the walk. Not just talk. They were soo happy in the east, they jumped through hoops to get here. Peasants. Not rich.
They did not have much jewish affection either. Probably because the jews had more assets than my family. Class warfare kind of thing.
Latinos around me feel the same way. I am sure. Since all people are prejudiced in some way. It is a human/primate condition.Edit: I am aware of https://retractionwatch.com/2013/12/24/doing-the-right-thing-yale-psychology-lab-retracts-monkey-papers-for-inaccurate-coding/
I have no questions that need answering.
Happy trails.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by rokytnji.
Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
Not all who Wander are Lost.
I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.Linux Registered User # 475019
How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problemsFrom your link: “overwhelming evidence that our brains are wired for bias” … “automatic prejudices”
It is a human/primate condition.
This is probably true, but… In the end it is always our personal choice, how we as human beings do act.
rokytnji, I don’t find words to express what I feel reading what you and your parents had to suffer, so I will stay silent in commemoration of what has happened.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
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