How to get HELP with an antiX PROBLEM

Forum Forums New users New Users and General Questions How to get HELP with an antiX PROBLEM

  • This topic has 21 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Nov 3-2:48 pm by Brian Masinick.
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  • #90394
    Moderator
    BobC

      Maybe we can help. Please make it easy for us to help. To do that we need to know about your computer and the programs you are running, as well as the details of what the problem is and how we can repeat the problem too. Once we can repeat a problem, it is a lot easier to figure out a way to fix it.

      You need to be willing to help. Have an open mind. Read what you need to and try following the instructions below.

      First things first:
      – Are you a beginner with Linux? Check out (and read what you need to) from PPC’s https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/short-essential-how-to-list-for-the-complete-linux-newbie/

      – Are you a beginner with antiX? If your problem is a basic question, check the FAQ and watch videos. Check out (and read what you need to) from PPC’s https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/what-is-antix-and-how-to-try-it-out-or-install-it/ There are lots of good pointers. Maybe your problem is something covered. Invest a little time in learning.

      – Investigate the problem on the internet. Do a search and try and see if you can find any good clues from where someone else had a similar problem.
      https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/how-to-search-for-a-solution-when-you-have-a-antix-problem/
      Bookmarks are a good idea. Maybe you will find it solved somewhere?

      – Is the problem with a program that comes installed by default with antiX? Those are the programs we are most familiar with here. If not, the best places to look are where there are people working on it or using it. If it is literally a bug, it is best to get the developers of that program to work on their program. With programs that come with antiX’s Package Installer, some people here will know them, others less, depending on how many people here are using it.

      – Is the problem with another program you installed? Is there a program that normally gets installed with antiX that you could use instead? Check out https://alternativeto.net and search for the program you have and see what Linux programs are available, and see if any of those come with antiX, or can be installed with our Package Installer, or our Package Manager. If none of those work out and other versions are available, check out PPC’s thread https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/how-to-install-applications-2020-version/

      Still no answer:
      – Try searching here in the forum. Pull down the menu in the browser here where it says Forum and click Search Forum. Try and see if you can find the problem or something similar. Look for ones that got solved.

      Before creating a topic here to ask for help:
      – Is your system up to date? Updates to the packages with fixes are posted daily. If your system isn’t updated, you could be running old versions of programs that had bugs that have already been fixed. Run the antiX updater to get it up to date.
      antiX menu button >> Applications >> antiX >> antiX Updater

      – After your system is up to date:

      – If you are running it from a flashdrive you don’t want to shutdown or reboot unless you are using persistence or remaster because the program updates you did will be lost

      antiX menu button >> Logout >> Logout button then log back in to restart everything

      – Now try running the program having problems to see if the problem happens again.

      If the problem is still happening:
      – We need to know what exact version of antiX you are running
      Open a terminal with Ctrl+Alt+t or antiX menu button >> Terminal and run inxi to get a listing of what your system is running. It will create a file in your $HOME directory called inxi.txt that you should attach to your post.

      inxi -zv7 > ~/inxi.txt

      Provide the details:
      – The other important thing is to tell us in detail what program you are running, including the version, if you have made any changes to the way antiX came configured, and in detail what steps starting with login we need to take to recreate your problem.

      – Did you get an error message or does the screen give any useful information? Type it in or take a screenshot (the Print key runs the screenshot program) and attach it to your post.

      Create New Topic in the forum:
      – Not familiar with getting help on Forums? Look at https://www.antixforum.com/forums/topic/how-to-correctly-use-antix-forum/

      – Its best to create your own thread if you have have a problem, unless its just to chime in on another thread to say that you have the same problem

      – It would be good clues to know if the program has the problem on certain machines or graphics or CPU, or with certain versions of antiX, or with one of our desktop selections or another, like rox-icewm (the default) or zzz-fluxbox, for example. If the problem doesn’t happen when running a different distro, that would be a good clue that will help, as well. Don’t expect that we can solve all problems. You might be better off running another distro if we don’t have a solution and someone else does.

      – Be nice, please, the people creating antiX and supporting it are doing this for fun, not to get rich. BTW, not all problems are antiX problems, but if we can help, we will. You can make it easier by providing us with a clear understanding of what you are running and what the problem you are having is.

      #90420
      Member
      punranger
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        Hi Bob, thanks for a good effort. I highly appreciate the work you and many others do here. However, I must confess: I do not think that your post will change a lot of people’s behaviour. If you’re a newcomer to the Linux world, everything’s a bit overwhelming. You probably don’t even join the forum and post here until you run into a problem, and then it’s a lot to take in. There’s also the inherent problem with desktop Linux: Everything is free, but everything is also complicated. Freedom means complexity! I’ve dabbled in this world for a while now, but I don’t even pretend to understand what’s going on under the hood yet.

        My point is that if antiX and other distros are going to broaden their userbase, the support system needs to become formalized. The forum is very informal, which means it’s always open for people to post who really don’t have done all the work they should. I sometimes feel guilty of doing this myself.

        I know it’s probably impossible to do, but to make support for antiX more manageable for the few people that know everything and have limited time, some sort of automated support system probably needs to be in place. For example, I could envision a sort of ticket system that forces people to answer a few questions before they’re allowed to post. For example, you would need to define if you have a hardware and software problem. If it’s a hardware problem, you need to say wether it’s your screen, your mouse or whatever. The categories could be formed with basis in the categories of the control centre, for example. You would need to force people to report their inxi output by default. The system could also refer people to some common issues.

        In summary, you would need to FORCE users to behave in the way you’re kindly asking them to do. I do not think the current structure of an open-ended forum will be able to withstand a growing number of users, and alleviate the concerns you bring to light in your post.

        In addition to this, I still think that there are gains to be had regarding the documentation antiX offers. I do believe that if the documentation was clearer and simpler, there would be less posts here on the forum. I appreciate that this would require a lot of work from people who already have limited resources, so maybe it’s a kind of Catch-22. But I think the vulnerabilities of the current support system can not be resolved by simply asking people to be better prepared.

        Kind regards.

        antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

        #90431
        Forum Admin
        rokytnji
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          @ punranger. I live in a spanish neighborhood. Was not easy learning spanish. But it made life easier. I am not fluent. But I don’t get ignored at fiestas.

          I look at linux the same way. No body twisted my arm to run this distro. It speaks a different language than others are used to.

          Like Spanish. I took the time to learn. Now life is easier.

          Thanks Bob. My old thread needing updating anyways as it was getting long in the tooth.

          _PS. The minute this forum gets real formal. I guess I’ll move on. I am loosey goosey mod/admin from way back. But anti likes me.
          He probably likes my loosey goosey attitude. I am not as techy as some members here. But I try in my own way.
          This is supposed to be fun.
          Happy Trails, Rok

          Edit: documentation is a thankless task. I used to contribute to the antiX wiki on eeepc installs and tips and tricks on them.
          Long in the tooth now so left documentation for the younger more knowledgeable member’s to pick up the baton.
          So thanks again Bob.

          • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by rokytnji.

          Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
          Not all who Wander are Lost.
          I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

          Linux Registered User # 475019
          How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

          #90434
          Moderator
          Brian Masinick
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            @punranger: While on one hand I think that your comments have a lot of merit and worth, the likelihood of formalized support for this, or any, distribution is a matter of time, effort and cost.

            We could theoretically provide a service but it realistically cannot be free in any practical use of the word. Our founder has a paying job. I’m retired but I formerly had a paying job. I can and do help out with questions and forum moderator efforts but they are volunteering effort; anything more would require a firm commitment and quite frankly a salary.

            Dave, anti and others who do the work definitely do a great job; to do anything more would require financial support; we all have homes to live in and support like everyone else.

            That said, we all volunteer what we can and I personally consider it a very good success.

            Brian
            Or "The Mas"

            #90436
            Moderator
            BobC
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              punranger, When I work on a problem, I usually take one of my laptops and boot from a freshly updated USB, and try to recreate the problem. For a simple problem this can be pretty quick, but the more complex it gets, it can take exponentially longer.

              I’ve had a number of ones I worked on here recently where they didn’t say what they were running on, or what versions of things they were running, and I ended up spending a bunch of hours to find a workable solution, and in the end they say they already knew that, and they have some other version or whatever. Why couldn’t they have just told me that in the first place? At that point I realize that my time would have been better spent doing something else.

              I love solving problems. To me that’s fun. It’s like a game, trying to beat the machine. We know many or most aren’t really antiX problems, but I figure when they aren’t by the end they will understand that, and when they are, the antiX devs are the most reasonable around at fixing problems quickly and helping make things useable.

              What I don’t like is spending time on things for people that didn’t even try, and didn’t even take the time to give us a decent description of what they need help with. I tried to provide a simple roadmap. I tried to orient it to non technical people, and if nothing else show them a good sequence of steps to either solving their problem outright, or getting the right information to someone that can help.

              PS: You talk about “forcing” people to do this or that. To be honest, that reminds me of the RTFM attitude of old. Look around. Not everyone running antiX is a technical person. If I told my wife to go create one of the tickets in the systems I’ve seen here, I’m sure it would never get done. But what if her problem was a legit problem? People like us can help with things like that. With the programs that are my favorites, I’ve tried to help defray some of very basic needs so the developers don’t get bothered by it rather than shuffling that additional load onto their shoulders. Just saying…

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by BobC.
              #90437
              Member
              punranger
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                @rokytnji I understand what you mean, and I appreciate it. But not everybody is like you. And maybe antiX isn’t for everybody. The way I read Bob’s post was that he saw the need to educate the users on what proper behaviour on the forum is. And my response was that I think he and everybody can write as many posts as they like, but that is not what is going to change people’s behaviour. Put it another way: If you want to avoid noobs asking simple questions here, you probably need to raise the bar somehow. Maybe antiX has the problem of being too easily initially available for users who are looking for simple solutions to their problems, but ultimately too complex for the users of those problems.

                No offense, but I think the comparison with Spanish isn’t really that spot on. A language like Spanish has millions of speakers, and there are multiple support options available for people who want to learn it. You still have to do all the work, and it’s still as hard to learn. But there’s a large support structure. antiX is a small distribution with a small community, and rather limited support options. Once the number of users start growing, the support structure isn’t really built to be able to deal with the increased pressure.

                I repeat the main message: Asking people to behave differently is not what’s going to make them behave differently. If you want people to behave differently, you need to change the world they are behaving in.

                antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

                #90438
                Member
                punranger
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                  Bob: I understand very well, and I and many users thank you for the work you’re doing. Like I said in my previous post, you can’t tell people to stop behaving in a certain way. Users who ask questions do not see the work you put in from them. I have myself spent many hours on helping people in other fields who have no idea how much time I’ve spent trying to help them. You put yourself at risk of being taken advantage of. And currently, there’s really nothing protecting you from incompetent or undereducated users. I certainly can understand your frustration. But I’m sad to say I still believe that writing a forum post is not going to change the behaviour of anyone – except for maybe the man writing the post. I sincerely believe you need to make it more demanding for users to ask for help in order to change their behaviour. Tough love, if you can call it that.

                  antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

                  #90440
                  Moderator
                  BobC
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                    Well, I tried to make it understandable and doable. They might need to spend a few minutes or an hour or two to learn, but as time goes by they will pick up more and more. Its a natural progression.

                    And if I see the post where they don’t provide the basics above, maybe I’ll copy and paste from one of these threads to try to convince them it will help them get the good results they are hoping for. Keeping it simple and friendly is important.

                    BTW, if any of the admin’s want to merge this into another thread, like the one rokytnjji referred to, I don’t have any problem with that. I was trying to get something very NOTICEABLE up near the top where people could easily find it, and hopefully refer to it if they needed help but weren’t sure how to go about it.

                    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by BobC.
                    #90442
                    Forum Admin
                    rokytnji
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                      A language like Spanish has millions of speakers, and there are multiple support options available for people who want to learn it. You still have to do all the work, and it’s still as hard to learn. But there’s a large support structure. antiX is a small distribution with a small community, and rather limited support options

                      That is why I use Debian forums. Arch wiki. and other sites like how to forge. Gnu/linux is not limiting. Lots of folks like me around.

                      example from one of tutorials that no body reads.

                      Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
                      Not all who Wander are Lost.
                      I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

                      Linux Registered User # 475019
                      How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems

                      #90444
                      Moderator
                      Brian Masinick
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                        Yeah, https://forums.debian.net/ is a useful site; as you mention there are many other good sites too. I read Linux Questions; they have plenty of good information; My friend, h2, also has techpatterns – see https://techpatterns.com/forums/forum-26.html – that’s another good general resource.
                        Those who truly WANT to learn, and eventually solve problems for themselves and others can certainly do so.

                        I’m retired now, but this is exactly how I learned both UNIX, then Linux; I read books, forums, news groups, USEnet, whatever I could get a hold of.
                        I started out with novice skills and understanding; took years but much has been learned; so many NEW things that younger people know that I don’t know; however, when I find something that I AM interested in, I read, learn, and occasionally ask questions after doing “my homework”. That’s the right way to do it, whether others choose to do so or not is their business, but I’m not personally responsible for what they learn (though I’ll try to be helpful); ultimately each person is responsible for what they learn and apply to their lives and their understanding.

                        Brian
                        Or "The Mas"

                        #90448
                        Member
                        punranger
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                          Lots of folks like me around.

                          Which is good for people like me and many others. But I never assume that other people are like myself. The world is full of people with complicated lives who want easy solutions – that is my assumption anyway.

                          And, this is not meant to be offensive or mocking to Bob or anyone of the good people here in any way: I wish you all the luck in the world in trying to change the world, one forum post at a time. It’s a beautiful thought. I’ll leave it that for now.

                          antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

                          #90449
                          Moderator
                          Brian Masinick
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                            @punranger: I’m not taking any offense; you’ve made some good suggestions. At this point, all any of us can do as volunteers is provide a little bit of help here, a script or two there, and occasionally, if someone also has development skills, help developing and/or testing software; put it all together and the result is actually a really compelling, lean, efficient, well designed, developed, and implemented system by an international community of helpful, cooperative people; that’s better than ANY politicians have ever done; we’ve shared good, honest, freely available software that anyone willing to LEARN can freely use.

                            Brian
                            Or "The Mas"

                            #90461
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                            blur13
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                              A forum post might not change anyones behaviour, but on the other hand it has no negative consequences. If it changes at least one persons behaviour it’s a win. If it doesn’t, there is no harm done. Implementing a stricter scheme, on the other hand, requires a more thorough cost/benefit analysis. And is somewhat anathema to the whole laissez faire, libre, no barriers, open source movement.

                              #90518
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                              punranger
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                                A forum post might not change anyones behaviour, but on the other hand it has no negative consequences. If it changes at least one persons behaviour it’s a win. If it doesn’t, there is no harm done. Implementing a stricter scheme, on the other hand, requires a more thorough cost/benefit analysis. And is somewhat anathema to the whole laissez faire, libre, no barriers, open source movement.

                                I couldn’t resist commenting on this: It is true that changing one person’s behaviour could be a win. But I differ on “no harm done” part. The problem, which I’ve seen in so many community/volunteer projects, is that when you try to tell people to behave, and they don’t, you ultimately give up. I’ve experienced this type of burnout in more than one setting myself, and I’ve seen it multiple times in others. I suspect it has happened here as well. (I actually thought of Bob’s original post as the first sign of a possible burnout.)

                                This is a bigger problem when there’s a smaller pool of volunteers to recruit from, as I would argue the case is here. I can see the argument that the open source movement is opposed to regulation. But open source IS regulated, and from what I understand, there has been significant conflict in many cases, such as with agreeing on the terms of software licenses for example. That said, the collective efforts of the open source movement is a staggering example of individuals working together voluntarily for the common good – I am in awe of the achievements, it actually makes me think there’s hope in the future after all.

                                But I also think: A well regulated support structure could be argued to give people MORE freedom – more time spent on productive tasks, and less time spent on answering the same questions over and over again. And less time being frustrated. But here I go, trying to change people’s mind, one forum post at a time 🙂

                                antiX linux: The best way to revive an old computer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCTaUAP6sSg

                                #90525
                                Moderator
                                Brian Masinick
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                                  Whether or not this affects any action of changes I do appreciate the conversation and dialogue; it’s a good exchange of ideas and I’m all for free exchange!

                                  Brian
                                  Or "The Mas"

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