- This topic has 18 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated Jan 10-10:08 pm by caprea.
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John Biles
Articles regularly popup on my Mobile Phone and today this one did. Reading it just comes over as propaganda designed to scare new Linux Users away from trying Linux in the first place. What do you think?
Quote “Due to Windows and MacOSX’s penetration into the mainstream market, Linux has fallen to the wayside in terms of adoption.”
Oh Yes I can remember when Linux had 80% of the Desktop Market and now only has 2% ??? Having been a Linux User / Developer since 2006 most of us know that Linux Desktop use was around 1% and now only appears to be on the rise.
Quote “Any user fed up with Windows and looking to shift to Linux might have moderate success installing and setting up one of the easier-to-use distros out on the internet. However, one of the biggest obstacles that any new Linux user will find difficulty in surmounting is the toxic community the ecosystem has built around itself.”
Strange? I’ve only found friendly helpful forum members. It’s true not every post you post leads to an answer, but other do try to help you.
https://analyticsindiamag.com/toxic-linux-community-acting-as-the-perfect-repellent-for-new-users/
LegacyOS 2023 x64 released. now based on antiX.
rokytnji
Well. I even found a India dude that thinks like I do.
https://medium.com/@zubair0/calling-bullshit-in-data-analytics-d7038a98ab04
Seeing your mag article is based on analytics.
I guess I could be considered toxic on certain cultures.As far as influence on a user to use linux or not.
I find pragmatism over rules toxic stuff.
One has to eat. Or have fun. Or what ever. Lots of expired tech gear in the world for cheap right now.So no worries here.
Sometimes I drive a crooked road to get my mind straight.
Not all who Wander are Lost.
I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.Linux Registered User # 475019
How to Search for AntiX solutions to your problems
andyprough
This is a friendly forum, but some of the forums for the largest distros like Arch and Debian have prided themselves on how unfriendly they are. Can’t say the reputation isn’t well deserved in some cases.
Hello rokytnji, I liked you link on Bullshitting. It suits the link I posted well.
LegacyOS 2023 x64 released. now based on antiX.
BobC
The “RTFM attitude and treatment plan” really did a job on non-Linux newbies perception of the OS in the past. I think its much less true these days. I hope we can learn from that article that how people are treated can be remembered decades later.
This is one of the sites where the people did treat me well, and did both try to help, and did. In many cases it was by pointing me where to look or how to investigate.
We shouldn’t be afraid to ask people to invest some of their own time and effort into resolving the issues they have, but it isn’t that difficult to be nice about it.
iznit
BobC, ouch. I did just reply advising RTFM (((manpages))) to someone asking why smartd fails to start on their system. From the generic logged error message reported in the post, it’s probably impossible for someone replying to sort through the details and troubleshoot the problem on whatever specific hardware is involved. Hope that didn’t sound mean ((( aka “toxic” ))) it just sometimes seems appropriate or even necessary.
A lot of is just the wording and attitude.
If I say “take a look at” or “check out” or “search with your browser for”, its a lot nicer than saying RTFM.
The friendly way lets them know we are trying to helping them, the other is more of an attack or taunt.
techore
This is a friendly forum, but some of the forums for the largest distros like Arch and Debian have prided themselves on how unfriendly they are. Can’t say the reputation isn’t well deserved in some cases.
Agreed.
Sad, really. Even if it is a minority of members in a community, it is going to stifle dialog for some will avoid sharing ideas or asking questions out of fear of being ridiculed and others simply because they don’t want to deal with jerks.
Yes, well, Arch more so I do remember well, but not everyone. Debian people helped me a lot. I’ve had some crazy hardware setups over the years. If the answer is likely on the man page or in the –help, there is no reason not to tell someone to look there, but I think the best thing is to learn to search the web, and try the obvious possibilities, and if still stumped, at that point you probably at least can figure out what to ask and know what info people will be asking for.
isnit, you didn’t say anything mean.
I still wish people would at least look at the threads at the top so they can provide the basic info in the first post without us having to beg for it, or waste time, or suggest badly for lack of it. I admit to being guilty of it, too. We should all try, thats all. Nobody is perfect…
Xunzi_23
Reading Linux had 80% of the Desktop Market, server market is more likely. Desktops as far as I am aware
nowhere near. Even counting in android devices which have held a large market share for a long time.As anyone reading through the antiX forum can confirm there have been cases of extreme toxicicity. One
Some posts contain disparaging language about other desktops and those who use them. Some have contained ridiculous allegations,falshoods and fallacys..Having been around many forums, Arch was generaly good if the poster had bothered to at least do a simple search before posting and remain mannerly and factual.
Same went for Manjaro. Probably the best long term forum experience I ever had. Not at present an active manjaro user.Debian, have observed some very arrogant/ignorant posts especialy toward those using 32 bit OS or older, less powerful hardware. Bias against non sys d fetishists.
The debian team member has lost my respect entirely. But his and others influence is felt in that debian is no onger the universal operating system it once was.Ubuntu forums, experience has been at times wearing, although I still visit. Buntu is based on debian so many answers apply. The huge userbase means that obscure
issues may be more easily found there.Void, Factual crisp concise helpful sparse infos at times perhaps the best description.
Puppy, sometimes difficult to follow due to the individuality coming from many experiments. Interesting helpful. But you can quickly get clobbered if you do not help
yourself.With regard to the number of linux desktop users, dependable statistics are unlikely to be available outside of government surveillance organizations.
Many linux users are privacy concious and data collection due huge spread of distros splintered.In my experience moving to linux is not forum affected. More the lack of pre installed setups and groß misinformation. Further the huge amount of money
spent on lobbying by MS SAP et al. People are habitual, most have doze at on the desktop at work so think the bosses are right. Often the client is running
linux as is the server but that remains largly unnoticed.Recently schools and universitys forcing students in to MS or worse apple ecosystem. Something I find disgusting.
- This reply was modified 4 months ago by Xunzi_23.
marcelocripe
Strange? I’ve only found friendly helpful forum members. It’s true not every post you post leads to an answer, but other do try to help you.
My experience before coming to the antiX forum was very negative. Most of the forums I’ve been in contact with before this forum were not friendly to a GNU/Linux beginner, it was even worse for me because I don’t know how to write and read in the English language. I’ve tested other distributions and on some forums, they just don’t help newbies and still discourage newbies from continuing, without help it’s impossible to start and continue in the GNU/Linux world.
But here on the antiX forum everything is very different, the distribution leader welcomes people, talks to the members of the forum, we have several professors and masters (just don’t learn here who doesn’t want to or who is too lazy to read the various tutorials) , people respect each other. And we shouldn’t pay attention to rude people who disrespect others or who are ungrateful people. In fact, someone was surprised in another thread when a moderator apologized for some misunderstanding. I call it respect and dignity between human beings of different nationalities and cultures.
And I repeat a fact again, if the community does not grow with the arrival of new people, the distribution will end because there will be no one to keep it alive for the next generations.
The material shared by Rokytnji is perfect, the author manages to synthesize very well how easy it is to manipulate data with a specific and often biased purpose. In other words, “paper accepts anything,” whether the paper is physical or virtual.
I realize that in my country, when a lie is told it often ends up becoming “truth” in the minds of weak or poorly educated people. Fake news is made by intelligent people who use their knowledge for evil and is often distributed (or shared) by other people who are unable to perceive the evil behind the alleged information. As fake news grows, useful information is almost impossible to find on social media.
The human being needs to have a lot of discernment to know how to differentiate what is a lie from what is true.
Misinformation is the worst thing we have in the “information age”.
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Strange? I’ve only found friendly helpful forum members. It’s true not every post you post leads to an answer, but other do try to help you.
A minha experiência antes de chegar até o fórum do antiX foi muito negativa. A maioria dos fóruns que eu tive contato antes deste fórum não foi amigável com um iniciante no GNU/Linux, foi ainda pior para mim por eu não saber escrever e ler em idioma Inglês. Eu testei outras distribuições e em alguns fóruns, simplesmente não ajudam os novatos e ainda desestimulam os novatos a continuarem, sem ajuda é impossível iniciar e continuar no mundo GNU/Linux.
Mas aqui no fórum do antiX tudo é muito diferente, o líder da distribuição recebe as pessoas, conversa com os integrantes do fórum, nós temos diversos professores e mestres (só não aprende aqui quem não quer ou que tem preguiça de ler os diversos tutorias), as pessoas respeitam umas as outras. E não devemos dar atenção para as pessoas mal educadas que desrespeitam os outros ou que são pessoas mal agradecidas. Inclusive, alguém ficou surpreso em um outro tópico quando um moderador pediu desculpas por algum mal entendido. Eu chamo isso de respeito e dignidade entre os seres humanos de diferentes nacionalidades e culturas.
E volto a repetir um fato, se a comunidade não crescer com a chegada de novas pessoas, a distribuição acabará porque não terá quem a mantenha viva para as próximas gerações.
A matéria compartilhada pelo Rokytnji é perfeita, o autor consegue sintetizar muito bem em como é fácil manipular os dados com um propósito específico e muitas vezes tendencioso. Em outras palavras, o “papel aceita qualquer coisa,” não importa se o papel é físico ou virtual.
Eu percebo que no meu país, quando uma mentira é contada muitas vezes acaba virando “verdade” na cabeça das pessoas fracas ou com pouca instrução. As notícias falsas são feitas por pessoas inteligentes que utilizam o seu conhecimento para mal e muitas vezes são distribuídas (ou compartilhadas) pelas outras pessoas que são incapazes de perceber a maldade por trás da suposta informação. Enquanto as notícias falsas crescem, as informações úteis são quase impossíveis de serem encontradas nas redes sociais.
O ser humano precisa ter muito discernimento para saber diferenciar o que é mentira do que é verdade.
A desinformação é a pior coisa que temos na “era da informação”.
caprea
And I repeat a fact again, if the community does not grow with the arrival of new people, the distribution will end because there will be no one to keep it alive for the next generations.
( kind of offtopic )
Please consider, antiX was never made and hopefully will never try to fit for the masses.
People come and people go,some stay. Perhaps others have already reappeared with new or old nickname.
The focus for antiX sits on mean and lean. This perfectly is liked by some rare people.
Probably the most, don’t like that at all, always missing this or that “feature”. Someone has to make wise decisions.
And so this is going for many years, this is a very old discussion.You’ve been using antiX since two years I guess.Your thinking goes into the direction, uuh we are loosing members, uhh we have to offer this feature,
believe me these thoughts are not a good advisor, they probably just lead to an end of antiX as it is known and also valued (or hated) everywhere.
Brian Masinick
I agree with Caprea. Though our founder does listen to the feedback of the community, there is no question that as long as antiX exists it will remain a niche distribution for old equipment primarily and the purpose is to have a very lean distribution.
For anyone unsure what this means, lean refers to very efficient use of resources, the least amount of memory, disk and CPU possible.
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Brian Masinickmarcelocripe
Please consider, antiX was never made and hopefully will never try to fit for the masses.
This is not what I hope or want. I just hope that antiX will continue to exist even when I am no longer alive. When something is very good or excellent, as antiX is, it has to stay “alive” for the next generations. As much as Debian has followed “crooked” paths (with SystemD), what happened when its leader no longer acted in the community is useful to us, because the community continued Debian is what fits as a good example for the other distributions. When I say it has to grow, it’s because I hope that antiX continues to exist and for that to happen, new people are needed, because nobody here will live forever.
People come and people go,some stay. Perhaps others have already reappeared with new or old nickname.
I hope this happened to those who contributed so much to this forum or to the development of antiX.
Your thinking goes into the direction, uuh we are loosing members, uhh we have to offer this feature,
believe me these thoughts are not a good advisor, they probably just lead to an end of antiX as it is known and also valued (or hated) everywhere.I don’t want the end of antiX or the end of this forum, I hope you can understand that.
Though our founder does listen to the feedback of the community, there is no question that as long as antiX exists it will remain a niche distribution for old equipment primarily and the purpose is to have a very lean distribution.
My intention is that antiX continues to exist, even when we are no longer here, because no one here will live forever.
With that in mind, the fact that no one will live forever, what can we do today to keep antiX going?
I have suggestions and ideas, but I don’t manage, so I don’t have the answer to the question I asked above.You’ve been using antiX since two years I guess.
In June of this year I will be 3 years old, during this time I have seen several programs from Xecure, PPC, BobC, Skidoo, Robin, etc. get into the full ISOs and that was for the good of antiX as well as making antiX easier for end users to use. This I consider a positive evolution when I compare it with what I got to know at ISO 19.2 and a little bit at 17 and 16, which I had very quick and superficial contact with.
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Please consider, antiX was never made and hopefully will never try to fit for the masses.
Não é isso que eu espero ou desejo. Eu só espero que o antiX continue existindo, mesmo quando eu não estiver mais vivo. Quando algo é muito bom ou excelente, como o antiX é, tem que continuar “vivo” para as próximas gerações. Por mais que o Debian tenha seguido por caminhos “tortos” (com o SystemD), o que aconteceu quando o seu líder não atuava mais na comunidade é útil para nós, pois a comunidade continuou o Debian é o que cabe como um bom exemplo para as outras distribuições. Quando eu digo que tem que crescer, é porque eu espero que o antiX continue existindo e para isso acontecer, novas pessoas são necessárias, porque ninguém aqui viverá eternamente.
People come and people go,some stay. Perhaps others have already reappeared with new or old nickname.
Eu espero que isso tenha acontecido com aqueles que tanto colaboraram com este fórum ou com o desenvolvimento do antiX.
Your thinking goes into the direction, uuh we are loosing members, uhh we have to offer this feature,
believe me these thoughts are not a good advisor, they probably just lead to an end of antiX as it is known and also valued (or hated) everywhere.Eu não quero o fim do antiX ou o fim deste fórum, eu espero que você consiga compreender isso.
Though our founder does listen to the feedback of the community, there is no question that as long as antiX exists it will remain a niche distribution for old equipment primarily and the purpose is to have a very lean distribution.
A minha intenção é de que o antiX continue existindo, mesmo quando não estivermos mais aqui, porque ninguém aqui viverá eternamente.
Tendo isso em mente, ao fato de que ninguém viverá para sempre, o que podemos fazer hoje para o antiX continuar?
Eu tenho sugestões e ideias, mas eu não administro, então, eu não tenho a resposta para a pergunta que eu fiz acima.You’ve been using antiX since two years I guess.
Em junho deste ano eu irei completar 3 anos, ao longo deste tempo eu vi vários programas do Xecure, PPC, BobC, Skidoo, Robin, etc. entrarem nas ISOs full e isso foi para o bem do antiX, além de facilitar a usabilidade do antiX pelos usuários finais. Isso eu considero uma evolução positiva quando eu comparo com o que eu conheci na ISO 19.2 e um pouco da 17 e 16 que tive contato muito rápido e superficial.
caprea
Marcello, I understand your points of view.
Good software and also good renewals are important for antiX, without question.
Considerations have to be made by someone who recognizes the consequences and inner connections. And takes the responsibility.
As you write, you see that antiX is not stagnating.
But there have always been voices that this was not enough and that had their own ideas about how antiX should be.
I hope you are able to see that our position is not so far from each other.
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