IceWM Start Menu Icons [Solved]

Forum Forums General Software IceWM Start Menu Icons [Solved]

This topic contains 23 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by noClue Jan 31-2:21 am.

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  • #17907
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    Can anybody say what is here EXACTLY going on? Where the missing icons come from? Who, what or where controls which icons are shown or not and if, where?
    Is it basically same for all versions of IceWM or each version works completely different and it’s a matter of ‘on good luck’ if it works (or not)?

    Some start menu icons are shown (/usr/share/applications), some are missing (IceWM own ones).
    It’s not antiX, it’s vanilla Devuan ASCII and it’s vanilla IceWM (v.1.3.8+mod+20161220).
    The sole purpose of this exercise is just and only, to better understand IceWM.

    Thanks for the feedback or suggestions on that matter.

    • This topic was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by anticapitalista. Reason: Solved

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

    #17915
    Moderator
    masinick
    masinick

    @noClue: I cannot guarantee that I can “say what is here EXACTLY going on”, but I was looking at logos on one of my distributions just this morning and the one thing I noticed was that the /usr/share/applications are NOT consistently populated with icons, especially when you look at different “styles” and sizes.

    In the /usr/share/applications directory in the Xubuntu directory, for example, the desktop files, such as chromium-browser.desktop on that system, contain “localized” entries for the names, descriptions, and locations – for example, the Name, Generic Name, Comment, Exec string that points to the executable image, Icon that points to the location of the application icon, etc. So this desktop entry is the file that identifies what gets put on the system menu. Whether there are usable icons that can be entered into this file, plus the accuracy of the information in this file has a great deal to do with what the menu entries look like in English and in other locales as well.

    It appears that the locale you are using here is not completely “translated”; in other words, not all entries are there for the locale that you are using, or something got “jumbled” or altered.

    We have a similar layout in antiX. Again, some applications are well-produced and come equipped in such a way that when we build them, we can provide everything needed. But if that isn’t the case, it either makes it necessary that someone on the team (knowledgeable enough to do so) creates the entries, and if not, you end up seeing entries that are either missing an icon, a description, or more, depending on what is available in the icon folders and what is specified in the desktop file for each application.

    I hope that at least explains what work needs to be done to make an entry “look right” every time we add an application. Anyone who knows more than this can by all means clarify or better explain what I’ve attempted to answer in this note.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by masinick.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #17932
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    @ masinick:

    Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, what you say is what I already know.

    Applications part is not a problem. That‘s the regular xdg xfce menu from /usr/share/applications.

    Two others were also shown upon fresh install: „strange“ Debian menu with X-this and X-that, a couple of terminals … all funny Debian things and one other menu with „no head and tail“ so I commented them out. None of them mentiond Focus or Styles / Themes.

    Settings, Focus, Themes … they are the problem. The bottom part.

    I can put focus_32x32.xpm and focus_16x16.xpm in /usr/share/pixmaps and / or in /usr/share/icewm/icons and still, no icons show up.

    There is also no mention of that part of menu nowhere in the documentation or tutorials – they all explain how to get the icons in place where I have them.

    Those bottom once „are part of IceWM“ and I somehow can‘t find a way to make them show up.

    I mean, menu gets created upon install, one adds icons afterwards and what now? Does it update automatically? Does it need a manual menu update? If yes, how? Is it rereading every now and then? Where the icon paths are getting set up? Not in IceWM preferences since I have set them up and still, nothing shows up. And so on and on … 1001 Star. 😉

    It‘s only that bottom part that I don’t understand how it works, upper part is same like in any other WM / DE.

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

    #17934
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    skidoo

    No “broken, or missing icons” are evident in your screencaps.
    (late edit: yes, I now understand: missing for the “Themes” and “Logout…” submenu items)
    For some of the top-level menu entries, and some of the submenu items (both “category” and “item” entries)
    iceWM is hardcoded to display a “diamond” glyph (indicating currently-selected, or recently selected) or None.

    Within your ~/.icewm/menu file, notice that only a subset of items represented in the menu are modifiable.
    iceWM builds the overall menu by applying wrapper which is comprised of a set of hardcoded items+rules.
    .

    Expanding on what masnick mentioned, if you do encounter a “missing” icon after installing a given app:

    1) visit /usr/share/appications to verify the installation package did (or did not) install a .desktop file

    2) if unsure, as in, not all the names of .desktop files EXACTLY match their corresponding program name, you can skim view the “Installed Files List” in synaptic for the recently-installed package or, via commandline: dpkg-query -L <packagename>

    3) if a .desktop file is present but a corresponding menu entry is absent, open the .desktop file in an editor and check/remove any limiting declarations, e.g. “OnlyShowIn=Gnome”, “Hidden=True”. After editing/saving, perform an “Update Menus” operation (and/or desktop session logout/login) then recheck whether the expected item is now correctly displayed.

    A full explanation of “what each line means, withing a .desktop file” is available here: desktop-entry-spec-latest.html

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by skidoo.
    #17935
    Member
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    skidoo

    Two others were also shown upon fresh install: „strange“ Debian menu with X-this and X-that

    Please clarify: you’re seeing that in Devuan (not in antiX… or, in both?)

    FWIW: By forcing (running a debian-centric xdg-menu utility) I can replicate that wierdness, but I’ve never seen it occur during regular antiX usage.

    #17952
    Member
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    skidoo

    Who, what or where controls which icons are shown or not and if, where?

    Regarding the “diamond glyph” displayed (or not) for certain icewm menu items:

    An icewm theme may provide a custom “app”, folder”, and “xterm” icon for use in the menu.
    icewm loads these, if present, from /usr/share/icewm/themes/*/icons

    #18012
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    @ skidoo

    Thanks for the answer. We somehow talk us all apart, probably because I do not know how to ask the right way.

    Regarding your last answer about themes might bring some custom folder, mail, windows, xterm etc. icons — everything’s peachy — I know that part already too.
    However, it still doesn’t bring in those 8 missing icons in the start menu.

    The basic idea would be to understand IceWM. That’s why I DO NOT USE antiX but vanilla Devuan / Debian and vanila IceWM 1.3.8 from the repos.

    OS installed, IceWM and Rox installed, I get the following menu (screenshot 0000):
    (Ignore the language mess — fresh install is German OS, but IceWM starts English)

    1. Terminal, Firefox, Gimp — all peachy, will get modified later.
    2. Applications folder looks like Debian menu to me, with that ‘strange’ selection of tools (that part I comment out and all is peachy).
    3. System, Utilities and Toolbar is either Debian or IceWM or part / part. Unimportant (that part I comment out and all is again peachy).
    4. Desktop Apps (Anwendungen) is xdg menu (/usr/share/applications) which is the only part I keep (it corresponds to XFCE menu) — all peachy.
    5. I manually edit menu and add the rest of apps, folders, menus, sub menus … according to my wishes / needs — all peachy … until here.

    (There are NO missing icons in my collection, NO broken app starters … everything is in perfect order everywhere. I understand how ‘normal’ starters work and what they need to show the icons properly so, NO ownership / permissions problems neither — and I also know NoDisplay=true, OnlyShowIn=KDE and all those ‘tricks’ so, NO NORMAL USER problems and mistakes.)

    My problem is: “Within your ~/.icewm/menu file, notice that ONLY A SUBSET OF ITEMS represented in the menu ARE MODIFIABLE.” and “iceWM is hardcoded to display”.

    HOW DO I MODIFY THAT HARDCODED, NOT USER MODIFIABLE SUBSET OF ITEMS? That is my problem. 😉

    For example, how to change that structure where Einstellungen (Settings) has Fokus (Focus) and Motive (Styles) as subfolders? It must be the way to remove Settings and make Focus and Styles become folders. That’s how it’s in antiX. And the missing icons …

    My icons are inside the /usr/share/icewm/icons folder, just as in antiX, but they still don’t display in the start menu.

    As you can see on my second screenshot (000), 8 icons are missing.

    Can you tell me why my vanilla Devuan-IceWM is missing those 8 icons that we get inside antiX?

    Attachments:

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

    #18020
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    skidoo

    An icewm theme may provide a custom “app”, folder”, and “xterm” icon for use in the menu.
    icewm loads these, if present, from /usr/share/icewm/themes/*/icons

    My icons are inside the /usr/share/icewm/icons folder, just as in antiX, but they still don’t display in the start menu.

    My problem is: “Within your ~/.icewm/menu file, notice that ONLY A SUBSET OF ITEMS represented in the menu ARE MODIFIABLE.” and “iceWM is hardcoded to display”.

    HOW DO I MODIFY THAT HARDCODED, NOT USER MODIFIABLE SUBSET OF ITEMS?

    Let us suppose you have selected an icewm theme named “silvertime”.
    As soon as you made that choice, icewm recorded that configuration detail
    by writing into file ~/.icewm/theme
    a line declaring
    Theme=”silvertime/default.theme”

    Each time iceWM starts, it reads the file ~/.icewm/theme
    and based on what it reads herein ( Theme=”silvertime/default.theme” )
    it checks the content of the directory /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/icons/
    to determine whether these files exist:
    /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/icons/app_16x16.xpm
    /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/icons/folder_16x16.xpm
    /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/icons/xterm_16x16.xpm

    That’s it. AFAIK, that is the limited customization extent iceWM supports for those “hardcoded” menu items
    (settings, focus, bullet displayed for the currently selected item within a submenu…)

    Can you tell me why my vanilla Devuan-IceWM is missing those 8 icons that we get inside antiX?

    Because it is using a different theme?

    If you were to copy directory+contents
    /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/
    from an antiX system into a Devuan system (or from Devuan system to antiX system)
    we should expect that theme will be displayed identically on either system.

    .
    =================

    a separate detail, mentioned for the sake of completeness:

    On either system, you may override the “global” theme definition files by (for example):
    mkdir ~/.icewm/themes/silvertime
    cp /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/*
    sudo chown -R myusername:myusername /usr/share/icewm/themes/silvertime/*

    #18021
    Member
    Avatar
    skidoo

    Okay, this ( exact path /usr/share/icewm/icons/ ) is the “fallback” resource directory.
    If the currently selected theme DOES NOT provide a custom (e.g. “app_16x16.xpm”) resource file,
    icewm falls back to loading the same-named file present in this fallback directory.

    Reiterating my earlier point: the resourcefile names are hardcoded.
    iceWM will simply ignore any unknown-name (“myapp_16x16.xpm”, “bluebunny.xpm”) files

    .

    #18023
    Member
    Avatar
    skidoo

    Here, we can see that a theme author may “extend icewm’s resourcefile vocabulary”

    .

    ^—v by default, icewm doesn’t know to look for a “system-software-update.xpm” resource file
    .

    .

    IceWM Theme Creation Howto: https://ice-wm.org/themes/

    #18049
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    @ skidoo

    Thanks for the patience.

    I know that website already.
    Everything works like you say.
    I can change every icon how I want…

    Except:

    I can’t change the only 8 icons I’d like to change (== to add, since there are obviously missing).

    🙁

    P.S.

    I can ‘replicate’ the ‘dummy’ structure too and set the icons, but again, those ‘8 problems’, still stay my 8 problems.

    Please have a look … icons a there, paths are there, I checked ~/.icewm/preferences & /usr/share/icewm/preferences …

    Changing themes also makes no difference — it changes everything except the 8 missing icons.

    I’m clueless.

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

    #18055
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
    anticapitalista

    As well as sizes 16×16 and 32×32, you probably also need one without a specified size eg reboot.xpm, reboot_32x32.xpm and reboot_16x16.xpm (or make the 32 and 16 symlinks to the main image)

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    #18057
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    @ anticapitalista

    Unfortunately, doesn’t work neither — be it .png or .xpm. It works in antiX though, but that’s not the point — to get (already working) antiX working. 😉

    If I would be paid per hour for what I’m doing, I’ll already have a very nice Porsche. 🙂

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

    #18059
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalista
    anticapitalista

    @ anticapitalista

    If I would be paid per hour for what I’m doing, I’ll already have a very nice Porsche. 🙂

    What would I have?

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    #18060
    Member
    noClue
    noClue

    Trump Tower? 😉

    How strange is to be anything at all. (Alice in Wonderland)

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