Ideas for improvements in future releases

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-19 “Marielle Franco, Hannie Schaft, Manolis Glezos” Ideas for improvements in future releases

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  • This topic has 161 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated Feb 5-2:12 pm by marcelocripe.
Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 162 total)
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  • #50935
    Member
    XecureXecure

    @ all taking out the double entries from the menu and grouping applications depending
    on usage case rather than alphabet. is a very big improvement.

    This would require a big change in the desktop-menu script
    (located in /usr/local/bin/desktop-menu)
    Also, usage is subjective, and could change depending on if the application is present or not on the system. Also, other applications installed later would be isolated from the group created, as this group was only envisioned for the apps included in antiX, and other apps that would also fit in the group would be isolated. It is too much work to organize groups for every app in the repos. Alphabetic mostly works. If you need a different order, copy the contents of ~/.icewm/menu-applications and paste in the personal menu, and you can organize the most important apps for you in the groups you want. I have done this for my main persistence system, and have the (renamed) personal menu containing a live submenu, control-centre submenu, etc.

    I also experimented with a menu that did not repeat control center entrys. That
    with removal of the double entrys and sorting was a huge improvement both in appearance and logic..

    This is my personal opinion, but I am not against duplication of programs (there are no duplicate programs in the Applications menu per se, but the same launchers can be found in multiple places).
    If someone is faster using the menu, they won’t need to launch the control centre. if someone (like myself) prefers key+combination to launch app-select and then search for apps to launch from there, if those .desktops are removed from /usr/share/applications so that you cannot access them form the menu, then I cannot launch them either from App-select.
    And what about someone who removes the Control Centre or even uses their own WM/DE not included by default in antiX? They would be forced to install the control Centre if they want to access those applications.
    If someone doesn’t like it, they can remove them, but I myself prefer having the possibility to launch an app from wherever I want, and not be limited to only one path.

    Anyway, that is my irrelevant opinion. I agree that reducing the main menu is good, but reducing options in the Applications menu, if that means removing .desktop entries from /usr/share/applications, I am against it.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Xecure. Reason: menu-applications
    #50938
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    Anyway, that is my irrelevant opinion. I agree that reducing the main menu is good, but reducing options in the Applications menu, if that means removing .desktop entries from /usr/share/applications, I am against it.

    This is my personal opinion too though not all devs agree (there have been discussions about this in the past).

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #50940
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    Hi Xecure,
    thanks for more background info. Reason for my looking at menu structure is in main due criticism both from several users who
    repeatedly asked for the difference between same application shown multiple times and places.And a number of serious reviewers.
    I also find the menus bloated.

    Having spent some time reading through the free desktop org documents on menu generation I can see that getting really clean
    structure is not so easy. Very dependant on upstream declaration in many cases.

    Still reading and learning so my direction is not fixed.

    regarding someone who removes the Control Centre or even uses their own WM/DE not included by default in antiX? They would be forced to
    install the control Centre if they want to access those applications.

    I would not worry about that scenario, either that is an advanced user or a person who will want to or have to learn a lot.
    I am working something similar with an iteration on RASPI. Still working at it ICEWM desktop setup working nicely, menus pretty much fixed.
    I had no expectation that I would get much help or encouragement as way off standard. Just learn along the way.
    Big help is Raspbian is very much debian. Just compiled and optimized for arm.

    About: you want to launch an app from wherever I want, and not be limited to only one path.
    That would in any case remain available. Just a cleaner more concise menu structure would be aim.

    #50941
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    IMHO, the menu layout of all desktop-environments are way more bloated, a lot less cleaner and less concise than ours.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #50942
    Moderator
    AvatarBobC

    Maybe the Control Centre could have its own menu/submenus that match the programs on its tabs? That would mean duplicate entries for things like Boot Repair or GParted if you still left them on the regular menu as well.

    Keep in mind App-Select (and many other programs) might need to see/use those .desktop files.

    It’s really a tricky question.

    You could really thin down the menus by moving all those to a Control Centre and tab group menu, but it would require tweaking the entries somehow…

    Just thinking aloud…

    PS: and would people be upset if they didn’t find gparted and synaptic where they expected on the menus?

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by BobC.
    #50944
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    Anyway, that is my irrelevant opinion. I agree that reducing the main menu is good, but reducing options in the Applications menu, if that means removing .desktop entries from /usr/share/applications, I am against it.

    This is my personal opinion too though not all devs agree (there have been discussions about this in the past).

    I agree with both of you. While there is room for improving the appearance, getting rid of redundancy and wasted space, this appears to be happening and will result in a cleaner, more functional appearance. In any case, the menu and mechanisms we offer are easily more nimble and easier to change than any major desktop environment.

    Brian Masinick

    #50947
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    > Maybe the Control Centre could have its own menu/submenus that match the programs on its tabs?

    That is probably impossible to achieve using gtkdialog as a framework.
    Even using a different framework (gui toolkit)… yes, tricky.

    Tab organization is suited to categorically distinct (mutually exclusive) organization.
    Difficulty arises as soon as you try to force an item which might be hunted based on multiple keywords… and many of the controlCenter items beg discoverabiity based on kewords (or drill-down, as-you-type, search as seen in app-select). Just this week, I was reminded that inxi is available via controlCenter. Huh? “cc }} Hardware }} PC Information” _means_ inxi? (Not a criticism, just presented as an example. Multipurpose inxi “means” quite a few things, but must be fitted somewhere withing the tabbed organization hierarchy.)

    IIRC, when I (unsuccessfully) searched for a suitable gui alternative, I had to go “all the way back” to gNote to find one which seemed workable. Early gnote versions, before bloaty (?Project Hamster) online calendars and sync and clown storage features were added, presented a dynamically populated left pane ~~ populated by “keywords” assigned (declared) within any of the given note items.

    a reworded generalization:
    dynamically populated left pane, populated by “keywords” gleaned from [a “field”, an attribute] of the to-be-organized entries
    +
    as-you-type search of “description” and/or “itemprogram name”

    Across years, I’ve become convinced the above is the winning solution. However, its management (the task of pre-populating, and periodically updating, the item entries) becomes unwieldy when it attempts to also accommodate “multiple locales/languages”. Instead of 4 (or 6) database fields per item, you wind up with NN “keyword” fields per item, plus NN “description” fields per item…

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #50948
    Member
    userzerouserzero

    @moddit,

    Phototonic is still happy in the Bullseye or ArchLinux repositories.

    #50956
    Moderator
    AvatarBobC

    skidoo,

    I didn’t mean to confuse.

    I meant create an

    antiX Control Centre submenu in IceWM with
    a Desktop submenu with
    a Choose Wallpaper option
    a Edit IceWM settings option
    etc
    a System submenu with
    etc
    a Network submenu
    etc.

    It would best be accomplished using desktop entries (copied and tweaked) and letting the system generate the menus normally, I was thinking, or possibly just manually creating that 2 level structure if anti has a way to convert the languages automatically.

    The idea was it would be organized like the control centre and run the same programs with the same translated desriptions so people would remember, but still be able to find those same programs with the same description or run it, or add it to their toolbar or desktop with App-Select.

    It was just another hare brained idea I guess…

    #50972
    Member
    KooKoo

    Control Center already has these options why do you need to make it confusing. Sub menu’s should stay right there in the menu. (rofi)

    That why I like using the cli versions cli-aptiX & antiX-cli-cc as they run from scripts and not a folder with a bloated bunch of .desktop files. (you have now been bined)
    The only thing that cli-aptiX is missing is fact that it does not have the ability, to install programs from the main Debian server like synaptic.Yes know aimed it is at antiX programs but you edit all source list including Debians here, your does everything have to like pretty and have tick boxes like windows. windows key + mouse a match made in heaven apparently.

    Beam me up scotty we off back to plant (rofi)

    T430 i7-3632QM 16gb , antiX-19.2.1-runit_x64-base Hannie Schaft 29 March 2020 , 5.8.16-antix.1-amd64-smp
    Testing 21a on T430.

    #50976
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    The only thing that cli-aptiX is missing is fact that it does not have the ability, to install programs from the main Debian server like synaptic

    How would that work?

    Instead of typing
    sudo apt install evolvotron

    I would launch cli-cc-thingie, and press 1) for install
    then type in evolvotron as name of package, and press enter
    then, when asked “Are you sure?”, press 1) to confirm
    then, when asked “Last chance. Are you REALLY sure?” press 1 again to reaffirm my choice
    ? ? ?

    The debian aptitude utility does this (and a whole lot more) quite nicely
    https://screenshots.debian.net/package/aptitude

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #50978
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    Different people often do things differently, including the use of different software tools.

    I often use alias commands and keyboard accelerators to reduce typing on the command line and I still enjoy using commands and various different methods of accomplishing software management.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Brian Masinick.

    Brian Masinick

    #50982
    Member
    KooKoo

    Well most of the time I use apt search first, as from below sudo apt install conky just gives you one choice. If you use search you see all the options before installing any thing, just as you would running something like synaptic.
    The same like using cli-aptiX for a kernel install you see all the available versions before installing a kernel. (Pick your number)

    sudo apt install conky
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree       
    Reading state information... Done
    The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
      fonts-fork-awesome libbinio-dev libgc1
    Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
    The following NEW packages will be installed:
      conky
    0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
    Need to get 18.4 kB of archives.
    After this operation, 27.6 kB of additional disk space will be used.
    Get:1 http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 conky all 1.11.6-2 [18.4 kB]
    Fetched 18.4 kB in 1s (27.0 kB/s)                    
    Selecting previously unselected package conky.
    (Reading database ... 224055 files and directories currently installed.)
    Preparing to unpack .../conky_1.11.6-2_all.deb ...
    Unpacking conky (1.11.6-2) ...
    Setting up conky (1.11.6-2) ...
    
    antix19a * 44 files = 48M ~ >$sudo apt search conky
    Sorting... Done
    Full Text Search... Done
    antix-goodies/testing,testing,now 0.8.2 all [installed]
      Various useful scripts for antiX.
    
    conky/testing,testing,now 1.11.6-2 all [installed]
      highly configurable system monitor (transitional package)
    
    conky-all/testing,now 1.11.6-2 amd64 [installed]
      highly configurable system monitor (all features enabled)
    
    conky-cli/testing 1.11.6-2 amd64
      highly configurable system monitor (basic version)
    
    conky-legacy/testing,testing 1:1.9.0-6 all
      highly configurable system monitor (transitional package)
    
    conky-legacy-all/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      highly configurable system monitor (all features enabled)
    
    conky-legacy-all-dbgsym/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      Debug symbols for conky-legacy-all
    
    conky-legacy-cli/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      highly configurable system monitor (basic version)
    
    conky-legacy-cli-dbgsym/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      Debug symbols for conky-legacy-cli
    
    conky-legacy-std/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      highly configurable system monitor (default version)
    
    conky-legacy-std-dbgsym/testing 1:1.9.0-6 amd64
      Debug symbols for conky-legacy-std
    
    conky-std/testing 1.11.6-2 amd64
      highly configurable system monitor (default version)
    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Koo.

    T430 i7-3632QM 16gb , antiX-19.2.1-runit_x64-base Hannie Schaft 29 March 2020 , 5.8.16-antix.1-amd64-smp
    Testing 21a on T430.

    #50984
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    like using cli-aptiX for a kernel install you see all the available versions before installing a kernel.

    Okay, understood. Need ability to choose from a list of multiple available kernels is a great example.

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #50988
    Member
    dortegadortega

    Excuse me if I jump into your discussion.

    Let me share my opinions on AntiX. I use AntiX on my old laptop (from 2004) which I now use as a second computer to perform certain tasks. I’ve been writing this post for some time and adding to it so maybe some of these points were already discussed and dealt with.

    good stuff:
    I love how AntiX runs on my old computer. You did a great job.
    I like the FAQ page, very informative and well written. Also the help menu.
    I like Conky and the fact you can customize it easily.
    Its the first time I use Fluxbox and I love it.
    I think the amount of desktops is not to much. Because they are well explained in the FAQ.
    I like the choice of applications included by default. Some very useful apps i didn’t know about like Droopy.
    I like the choice of ROX-filer as default file manager.
    I don’t think the main menu is overcrowded.

    Here are some of my suggestions. Maybe someone already pointed them out.

    1. Control Centre is a mess! Very unintuitive. I opened it a 100 times and I still don’t know where something is. I find myself going through all tabs each time. Make it more user friendly. I don’t know how. Some of the tabs descriptions have almost the same meaning: System-Hardware-Maintenance-Disks. “System Backup” is under Maintenance..ok. Menu Editor is under maintenance? Network Assistant must be under Network right? no..that’s also maintenance.
    It would be better to just put everything together in one tab/window. That way a user would visualy remember the position of icons and find something faster next time. You could use different colors for background to different sections (system,Network,..) but have all icons in the same tab.

    2. Add the AntiX Wifi switch to the Control Centre!

    3. Put all package managers, updaters and repo manager in one place

    4. I got confused a lot with Workspace switching when mouse scroll on the toolbar. Would be better to not have this as default. When you scroll through a webpage or document and your pointer touches the toolbar while scrolling your first thought is the program crashed.

    5. INSTALL language problem! During install you choose your region and the system language gets set to that language automatically. After installing you can’t change the system language. You have to reinstall the system. I fell on this trick twice. This should not be the default. There should at least be a warning: “If you want english as system language choose UK as your region! System language is set according to region and can’t be changed afterwards.”
    Often someone from x country doesn’t want his language as system language! It is very important.

    6. Make this forum searchable by search engines. If I google something specific about AntiX it only returns results from the old forum making it look like there is no current support. You can find this forum only by following the link on antixlinux.com page.

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