Ideas for improvements in future releases

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-19 “Marielle Franco, Hannie Schaft, Manolis Glezos” Ideas for improvements in future releases

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  • This topic has 161 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated Feb 5-2:12 pm by marcelocripe.
Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 162 total)
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  • #47787
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    AntiX with a Wayland without X.org?

    .

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #47790
    Moderator
    Brian MasinickBrian Masinick

    … a picture says a thousand words… you;re on a roll this week skidoo! 🙂

    Brian Masinick

    #47839
    Member
    userzerouserzero

    AntiX with a Wayland without X.org?

    Imposible si la postura de @bbidulock es,

    https://github.com/bbidulock/icewm/issues/70 , 🙂

    Si a lo anterior le agregamos el soporte de las apps para wayland (rox-filer, rox-terminal, spacefm, etc.) … Supongo que es poco difícil.

    Pero, puede intentar con AntiX mínimo, instalar waylad y usar este software,

    https://github.com/swaywm/sway
    “sway is an i3-compatible Wayland compositor.”

    https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot
    “A fast, lightweight and minimalistic Wayland terminal emulator.”

    suerte.

    Impossible if @bbidulock’s stance is,

    https://github.com/bbidulock/icewm/issues/70, 🙂

    If to the above we add the support of the apps for wayland (rox-filer, rox-terminal, spacefm, etc.) … I guess it’s a bit difficult.

    But , you can try with minimal AntiX, install waylad and use this software,

    https://github.com/swaywm/sway
    “sway is an i3-compatible Wayland composer.”

    https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot
    “A fast, lightweight and minimalistic Wayland terminal emulator.”

    luck.

    #48090
    Member
    Avataramg

    is it possible to make an anti-X with sway ?

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by amg.
    #48092
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    sway (SirCmpwn’s Wayland compositor) is a tiling Wayland compositor
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_(window_manager)
    .

    Please respect the antiX project by spelling the name correctly. Omit the spuriously-inserted dash.

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #48095
    Member
    linuxdaddylinuxdaddy

    @amg,

    yes it is possible to by building up from a core installation of antiX and installing
    sway.
    You may also look into the packages: waybar, wdisplays, and wlogout.
    And also prepare for reading on which applications work on wayland.
    You will need to also have a display/login manager such as GDM, KDM,
    SDDM, or LightDM installed to start sway.

    there is also kde5, gnome, and enlightenment can run on wayland instead of Xorg.

    Also note: The proprietary NVIDIA driver does not support Wayland. However, the free nouveau driver does.

    @skidoo you wrote:

    Please respect the antiX project by spelling the name correctly.

    absolutely should be by all members on the forum.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by linuxdaddy. Reason: added need display/login manager

    Normal == 🙂
    depends on the surrounding crowd ?!

    #48097
    Member
    linuxdaddylinuxdaddy

    Debian Wayland link:
    Debian Wayland Wiki

    Normal == 🙂
    depends on the surrounding crowd ?!

    #48124
    Member
    userzerouserzero
    #49148
    Member
    Avataramg

    it’s too difficult for me

    #49151
    Member
    XecureXecure

    it’s too difficult for me

    The thing about migrating to Wayland and abandoning Xorg would mean a major (really really big) change, meaning a LOT of work.

    First, many of the live boot script (which makes antiX special, the live USB experience) would need a rework, as they are Xorg centered.

    Second, non of the Window Manager (icewm, fluxbox, jwm or hlwm) would work on Wayland, so we would need to test and select from the available Wayland-only window managers (now called compositors, which most of the stable ones are tiling window managers -meaning keyboard centric, and no normal floating windows- and many of the others are still in development and are not stable), and need to study them and adapt them, finding good software to complement them (like a panel, toolba, etc.), create themes for them, prepare configuration files and create many gui or cli apps around them.

    Third, the desktop-session program that helps manage lots of other options (like wallpaper, desktop icons, startup programs, let you change between Window Managers, etc.) would need to be completely redone.

    Fourth, Needing to replace the current Log-in manager (SLiM), as it would not work on Wayland 8and need to adapt all log-in related programs and scripts).

    Fifth, Wayland will probably (this is theory, I have nothing to back this up) NOT work on older systems with no longer supported video Cards. Should we abandone this group of people in favor of Wayland? The development team is tiny, and having to support two versions of antiX (Wayland for the new, Xorg for the old) is too big of an effort.

    Sixth, Wayland still has issues (no clipboard management support, problem with sharing remote desktop, input grabbing depends on the compositor configuration if available).

    Seventh, many other things that I have left out.

    That is why migrating to Wayland is a lot of work, and only big teams (like Gnome team, KDE team and the creators of Wayland, that created Weston, i3 enthusiasts created sway -all of them not compatible with each other-) can achieve this, and big Distro groups (like Ubuntu and Fedora) “migrate” to Wayland (which really is using the Gnome or KDE Wayland versions).

    At some point in time, migrating to Wayland will be necessary, but right now it doesn’t make sense for small development groups (except for enthusiast).

    As other suggested, if you want Wayland, you can start with antiX core and follow some instructions for building your own antiX Wayland re-spin.

    #49170
    Member
    Avatarolsztyn

    The thing about migrating to Wayland and abandoning Xorg would mean a major (really really big) change, meaning a LOT of work.

    Pardon my lack of knowledge of Wayland architecture as I have not done enough research… As I have been hearing now and then about Wayland I am just curious what is the main reason of promoting Wayland to replace Xorg and what would be the advantages of such radical change:
    – Is Xorg too old an architecture to be efficiently supporting newer hardware?
    – Is Xorg ‘stabilized’, which in a word stands for ‘no longer maintained’?
    – Is Xorg’s architecture design too limited and chaotic and time has come for coming up with much better and straightforward design?

    If none of the above is the case, then is it another whim of Linux fragmentation promoters to introduce just another ‘different variant’?
    Just curious…

    #49221
    Member
    XecureXecure

    Xorg development is now officially stopped (we could start considering it abandonware pretty soon). Xorg redhat maintainer post: on abandoning the X server (I say this but I found a new xserver-xorg point release 1.20.10 announced in December).
    Development will continue, mainly for xwayland (for X programs to run on wayland), and patching and so on, but nobody is financing new development into Xorg, so it will stop being developed completely in a few years.
    New hardware is released all the time, so xorg support will be needed for those new graphic chips, new VR technologies, new input technologies (magic touch, keyboards, console controllers, etc.). Nvidia has stated its intention of moving to their own wayland implementation (cannot remember the name) different from the ones used by amd and intel. So possibly in the future, new Nvidia drivers will only work on wayland (still far waya from this).

    You can read some differences between Xserver-xorg and Wayland (and what leads people to wanting Wayland): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#Differences_between_Wayland_and_X

    what is the main reason of promoting Wayland to replace Xorg and what would be the advantages of such radical change:

    Many state that Wayland is faster (theoretically), and would lead to better performance in games.
    Others state that Xorg is a high security risk (understandable) because all programs running on the same X11 session will be able to see input between each other (risk of keyloggers, as it is easy to listen to other applications). This is solvable using programs like firejail to launch programs in their own x11 session (isolated from the other programs), but this workaround needs to be done by the user. the problem of blocking access to input for other “non-focused” applications is that it is very difficult to create a clipboard app, as that app cannot access the clipboard of other apps in wayland.
    There seems to be some problem with X11 and screens for mobile phones, which “need” something “better” like wayland, but I don’t understand this too well.
    Other people state that “new is better”, so 20 years old technology like xserver-xorg is “ancient” and needs to be replaced with things “for the age of today”.

    I am no expert. I am like a parrot and repeat what I read (which in fact may be false, so be aware that I may be bringing misinformation to the thread). I researched a little bit, but things are so polarized that it is similar to reading discussions between people in favor and against systemd. I get tired and stop reading.

    For now, you just need to know that Wayland will come, but it is not today, so no need to worry yet.

    #49226
    Member
    Avatarolsztyn

    Thank you Xecure for this extensive insight.
    Greatly appreciated.

    #49495
    Member
    skidooskidoo

    antiX 19.3

    dpkg -S /etc/rc.local
    ^—v
    fbsplash-antix

    apt policy fbsplash-antix | grep Installed
    ^—v
    Installed: 0.3.1

    but, but…

    https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/fbsplash-antix/-/blob/master/debian/changelog

    fbsplash-antix (0.3.1) unstable; urgency=medium

    * removed rc.local file

    — anticapitalista <a██████████████m> Sat, 05 Oct 2019 17:36:33 +0300

    Oops, I had intended to add clarifying inline comments within the provided rc.local file and submit via a merge request. I’m pleased to notice that the file has now been “set free” from that package, but am left wondering: Is the rc.local file now just inserted via build-iso template?

    ^————-in the current antiX bullseye alpha, I did notice that rc.local will be provided by “initscripts” package.

    ___________________________________________
    When requesting help, pasting the output from inxi -Fzr command will provide important relevant details:
    antiX version//edition ~~ stable vs testing repos ~~ live vs installed vs virtualbox ~~ hardware specs

    #49521
    Forum Admin
    DaveDave

    @ skidoo. I am not sure what you were planning to add to the rc.local file. Perhaps the pre/post-install script for the package could add the line?
    Similar to:
    if line exists:
    sed “/line/change/” rc.local
    else
    echo “line” >> rc.local
    fi

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

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