This topic contains 70 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by masinick Jan 16-9:59 am.
December 30, 2018 at 9:16 am #14753Member
Deleted, not really relevant anymore.
December 30, 2018 at 9:24 am #14754
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by anticapitalista.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by anticapitalista.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by caprea.
ƚɿoʇʇɘ ɘʜƚ ʜƚɿow ƚ’nƨɒw yllɒɘɿ ƨiʜƚDecember 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm #14830Forum Admin
Yes valid points that can be seen.
Now who is to make the next move? It is one thing to voice the basic known valid points, it is another to *fix* the basic valid points. Let’s take the menu icon usage / mismatch to start. Show *how* to fix this as “gimpit” is only a cop out for the situation. Who are the less knowledgeable to attain knowledge from except from those who can speak with authority?
Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author UnknownDecember 30, 2018 at 5:51 pm #14833Member
An icon for ‘pinta’ is presented in one of the screenshsots posted above, but Pinta is not pre-installed in antiX. It seems pointless to debate what pinta’s icon should be. It is unreasonalble to suggest, or expect, that antiX devs should anticipate which applications may be installed, from thousands of available, and write custom scripts to replace icons provided by each application author // packager, replace ’em with “preferred” icons. Considering that we’re dealing with a mix of pre-installed gtk2, gtk3, and Qt4/5 applications as well as a few “unthemeable” apps which utilize ncurses or the tkinter ui toolkit, the prospect of chasing “consistent” icon assignments and theming across all pre-installed antiX apps seems an unreasonable goal.
Several apps have been packaged (upstream) such that they do not provide their own iconfile assets ~~ instead, they “depend on” (require) installation of a separate specific (sometimes 20Mb+) icon package. Bloat isn’t my primary concern here, it’s the fact that these unintended extra icon themesets bring a boatload of “ designated by theme designer/team XYZ” icons. When a curious enduser changes iconset via “lxappearance”, we often wind up with “willy nilly” (and unfathomable) replacement of icons for applications whose author, or packager, DID provide a brand-recognizable icon.
For your collective consideration, attached to this post is a zipfile containing 2 themes favored by local users here.
Both are low-key, aka “dark”, and provide a GTK2 and a GTK3 variant. Each “weighs” about 1.5Mb. Neither of them utilizes SVG resource files.
If someone is interested in actually curating a package of antiX community tweaked-and-maintained gtk themes (vs just posting to pontificate regarding the status quo), I’ll create a gitlab repository, seed it with those 2 themes & process any pull requests containing tweaks and/or additional recommended themes.
As for the currently pre-installed themes, “raleigh” and perhaps a few others could be removed during the build-iso operation ~~ to weed out any collectively agreed undeisrable themes and to save users from wading through “too many choices” browsing the pre-installed themes. If anyone notices “raleigh” is missing and posts asking how to get it back, the answer is simple: just reinstall the “libgtk2.0-common” package.
Attachments:December 30, 2018 at 6:04 pm #14835Member
antiX must stick to Faenza because of Fluxbox? Well, throw the Fluxbox out, make a separate “limited edition fluxantiX”
For anyone disinterested in “all except iceWM”, Kyle maintains (and share a recipe for) LegacyIce-antiX
See? It’s not described as a special “edition”, nor a “fork”, and it imposes zero extra burden on the antiX developers. It’s a recipe offering scripted operation to shape stock antiX to better suit certain pereferences.
We can certainly have a conversation toward assisting you in achieving scripted removal of fluxbox.
We cannot have a convesation toward bullying fluxbox outa stock antiX cuz yousez it’s ugly.
Only fluxbox users, and only the subset of fluxbox users who choose to display icons in menu, are affected by its inability to display SVG files. So, unless (or until, heh heh) fluxbox is the default WM, this quirk should not restrict the list of default iconset candidates.December 30, 2018 at 6:07 pm #14836Member
missTell… IMHO… some sentences
I really dislike your uniform, market itself, boring,everything must be quadratic approach.
You mentioned ubuntu unity as a good role model,….. what a boring,stiffly,fat and ugly monster it was for me.
The things in life with a lively flair, a own character, a special honest touch, they feel friendly and appealing to me.
Surely we will will never settle on that, you will never understand this.
you mentioned the ground on which one walks, one never thinks about.
I’m always aware of the ground I’m walking on to get to my goal.Maybe unlike you, its more important to me than the destination.
Also the reason why I could never agree to your statement, windows, mac, and mint are the only usable operating systems.
So welcome to antiX, an unvarnished place, a beautifully distribution.
Sorry for the trouble antiC and all, I stay calm now.( i hope so)December 31, 2018 at 1:43 am #14848
ƚɿoʇʇɘ ɘʜƚ ʜƚɿow ƚ’nƨɒw yllɒɘɿ ƨiʜƚDecember 31, 2018 at 4:42 am #14851Forum Admin
@missTell – I warn you that any more personal insults will lead to you being banned.
You are free to make your criticisms, suggestions of antiX, but you are not free (on this forum) to insult members.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.December 31, 2018 at 8:52 am #14855Member
I do think there are some things which I would change that are within the scope of antiX devs to choose. I admit that I only really use IceWM with antiX.
Fluxbox looks fine, but feels weird to me. I know many like it, so I guess that’s why it’s also there.
JWM works fine but looks too cheap. Puppy Linux running JWM looks better.
Openbox is missing. It should be one of the main options for sure, IMO, if you want to significantly expand the user base.
I3 is missing, too. It is also highly rated by users, therefore in demand, but I don’t like tiling only WM’s.
BTW, I have tweaked my IceWM to the way I like it with 5 way tiling of windows on demand.
The biggest difference I see vs other distro’s where antiX seems behind is the choice of default background and conky layout. For the default background, a good idea might be to have a contest and poll to choose the next one. Not that I dislike the previous choices, its just that most people do at least initially judge the book by its cover, so you want the most attractive cover you can find…
Relative to IceWM (my ideas may or may not be applicable to the other desktops)
1. Use a nicer “Menu” button, maybe an new or improved looking antiX icon button
2. Add .desktop files, icons and menu entries for any always installed, often used default terminal programs like Midnight Commander as part of antiX packages
3. Add the Screenshot, Browser, File Manager, and Terminal to the default toolbar, maybe even create or find a GUI option where normal users can put a .desktop entry into a folder that contains a .desktop file for each toolbar program available so they can maintain the toolbar program list easily
4. Add icons for desktops 3 (and maybe 4) to the default toolbar
5. Revise default IceWM setup to show current activity Wan, Lan, Memory, CPU status in the status area of the toolbar
6. Revise default conky layout to add more antiX settings, more graphical status, top 5 programs cpu usage, maybe calendar, and add a list of the most often used Keyboard shortcuts (make these also easily available from the Help menu or Help key). Suggest using an interchangable ascii-text file built for each WM (by current language if possible) that copies into the file displayed by the conky when you change to a different desktop WM.
Default scroll to a page at a time(that got fixed)
8. Add Metal2 theme (I use a modified Crux with color changed from Purple to Blue, and wish those were there by default)
9. Add hibernate option back
10. Add Autostart applications manager so users can easily say what programs they want to come up automatically after the machine comes up
11. Add Xscreensaver maybe with a limited number of screensavers. Please include Star Wars and Flying Toasters if you do 🙂
12. Allow user to change default screen layout (ie arandr or whatever) and have it automatically be used if saved without any programming
And you can see that I have have few major gripes, mostly minor, and more like “it would be nicer if it had this”. That’s a good sign.
PS: I will try Legacy Ice on a default install to see if it provides any of the above
December 31, 2018 at 10:00 am #14858Forum Admin
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by BobC.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by BobC.
Answers to your 12 points.
2. Impossible since we have no idea which cli app a user will install.
3. We had this in the past – and some users said it made the toolbar ‘too busy’
4. Not sure what you mean. We had 4 desktops in the past, again some users complained it made the toolbar ‘too complicated’
5. User can easily do this via the IceWMcc app. (see comments 3 and 4 as well)
6. Too busy and too long for those will small screens. IMO users will choose and make their own conky set up whatever we do)
8. If users really want that particular theme ootb – easy to do
9. It is unreliable – even more so on old hardware.
10. If people want it, ok
11. Xscreensaver has a very annoying nag screen. Also it is much heavier than a simple lock. Finally, it is very easy to install.
12. Any idea how to do that without having to fork arandr?
Re – other wms such as i3, openbox etc. Not going to happen since antiX identity is rox plus icewm, fluxbox, jwm – so no openbox ootb.
About i3 – I used to use this wm a lot, until it added too many ‘features’ (IMO useless eye candy). It is the plasma/gtk3/gnome3 of the wm world!
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by anticapitalista.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.December 31, 2018 at 10:50 am #14860Member
Anti, I’m trying to help.
With regards to Openbox and I3, maybe if many people would want them, could they be added via “Package Installer”? People include/exclude Distros from their list of which distro to try based on if they can run the packages they want many times, I bet, and antiX will be excluded as a result. I see fvwm_crystal there as a Window Manager, and Cinnamon, KDE5, LXDE, Mate, and XFCE4 flavors of desktops also available. If they actually work, they should be included on the Package Installer and DistroWatch search lists. If not, just say “we will not add that to antiX” and/or “you can add that yourself” immediately when they get brought up by people.
For example, I saw and tested Lumina which was added (not as good or as popular as Openbox, IMO). Or maybe I read the word “added” wrong, because it’s not listed in either the Package Installer or on DistroWatch.
#2 cannot be that difficult. There is no Icon or Menu entry for Midnight Commander. But it is installed in the default install. It is not something a user decided to install. I am only talking about frequently used CLI apps that are included by antiX, not those added on later by users.
#6 is just as important as the default background because again, it’s is on that default screenshot that people will look at to decide whether or not to try antiX or some other disto instead. Not knowing what key does what leads to frustrated newbies. Other distros have added the most important key shortcuts to their conky screens, and its been real helpful for me when trying the distro.December 31, 2018 at 11:18 am #14861Forum Admin
BobC – I know you are trying to help – I even believe missTell is sincere in trying to help as well.
Adding other window managers (or desktop environments) to the package installer is ok – no issue from me.
#2 – we have already done that. There are several .desktop files for cli apps besides mc already on antiX.
Guess what – some users complained about the menu now looking cluttered.
#6 – if anyone wants to submit conkyrc files that do this, we can decide if they should be installed and set as default.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.December 31, 2018 at 11:51 am #14863Forum Admin
Thanks for your suggestions. It was good to have a concise list, clearly presented, using moderate language. That style is in keeping with the practice of the forum over many years even though those standards have occasionally faltered over the last eighteen months(ish).
My views on your suggestions are pretty much the same as the reply by anticapitalista. Over the years some of your ideas have been discussed and the uncluttered presentation was adopted.
Your Point #1
Our default IceWM theme is named Clearview. Its goals are to be easy to see, simple, uncluttered, and easily used by those with good and poor eyesight, hence the light colour schemes with high contrast dark text. If you would like to produce some examples of potential replacements for the menu button they should, ideally follow those objectives. Clearview themes are available in three colour schemes each having three different sizes of icons, taskbar etc, therefore nine variants are required.
I looked at using the antiX icon as used in the forum, but its form and text style do not fit well with the theme goals when used as a menu logo.
Your Point #2
The point you are making is unclear. I’m posting this from antiX-17.2-Full. By default, there is a menu entry and an icon for MC in Applications→System Tools
Guess what – some users complained about the menu now looking cluttered.
I am firmly in that camp. Previous releases had menu presentations closer to the overall uncluttered look.December 31, 2018 at 4:28 pm #14891Member
#2 is another “already been fixed” item.
I will take the default conky screen from it check what is missing from mine, add the most important without cluttering too much, and add the most important antiX default IceWM keyboard shortcuts to the bottom of it from a separate file as I was suggesting to show what it would look like.
Screen resolution idea:
1. When X comes up if a saved setscreenresolution script for how to set it doesn’t exist, use unxrandr to generate a default setscreenresolution file, else run the generated setscreenresolution script. I’m guessing this could be in desktop-session before the individual desktop is brought up.
2. When someone goes to change the screen resolution, instead of running xrandr directly, run a script that runs xrandr, then afterwards, run unxrandr to a temp file and compare it with the default to see if they changed the screen setup, and if they did and want to make it the new settings the default, replace the previous setscreenresolution script with the temp file generated.
December 31, 2018 at 5:15 pm #14892Member
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by BobC. Reason: to streamline the screenresolution script idea
This is actually a pic from my main system, but its close enough.
Conky – addded host name, antixversion, and icewm keyboard shortcuts in english.
Taskbar – IceWm start button (prefer a nice looking antiX one), add screenshot icon, 3 desktops with mini view, add monitors, and add calcurse on clock click
BTW, I see that the Metal2 theme is one of the few IceWM defaults.
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