incessant (er, periodic, rhythmic, neverending) network activity

Forum Forums Official Releases antiX-19 “Marielle Franco, Hannie Schaft, Manolis Glezos” incessant (er, periodic, rhythmic, neverending) network activity

  • This topic has 40 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated Apr 3-4:16 pm by rokytnji.
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
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  • #48120
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    I did not disable automatic time check as that leaves the system without NTP functionality,
    adding a list of timeservers through the connman interface fixes the problem.

    Still think ideal is a “fallback global time server list”. Which works as expected.
    And set a slower minimum query rate, minutes rather than seconds would be more sensible.

    Connman also asks for nameservers, on wifi, entering some gives more strange blips in conky.
    Maybe they get querys too, to figure that I must make a fresh stick as running default is
    free DNS on main setup.

    Side note,
    After reading with regard to timeservers DOS and DDOS and the frequency of connman NTP pings
    maybe some connection problems might be caused by server rejection based on IP adress.
    Problem condensed: the query-to-response ratio is anywhere between 20:1 and 200:1 or more.
    So the requests can cause a lot of serverside bandwith usage. Certainly running three laptops
    at same time without a fix made our home network very unresponsive.

    Strange, not yet experienced: connman disabling wifi on first boot from live ISO

    #48121
    Member
    XecureXecure

    I am not too sure that connman’s NTP requests will really update the clock. We will have to test and see.

    Strange, not yet experienced: connman disabling wifi on first boot from live ISO

    Did you never have to click on the ON/OFF slider/switch to enable wifi on any of the default antiX 19 ISO’s (in the connman UI)? I have had to do it each time and every time on a new ISO boot. This is the reason I created the youtube video and the antix-wifi-switch script (apart of making it easy to switch to ceni for those who want/need it). Most users don’t know they have to enable wifi first to get connected to a Wireless Access Point using Connman, and that is why they say that wifi doesn’t work out of the box in antiX.

    #48135
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    Reading here, on first start of connman only ethernet is on.
    https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/connman/connman.git/tree/doc/overview-api.txt#n406

    My misunderstanding, in any case a network password has been needed for wifi networks i
    needed to move the slider in the GUI before being able to connect. It does say disabled if greyed out
    and shows no networks. So done without thinking.

    I have had more problems with weird keyboard combinations and physical switches.

    You write: I am not too sure that connman’s NTP requests will really update the clock. We will have to test and see.

    Ok, I assumed the function would function as intended, connman is supposed to be a lightweight one application
    solution for network and NTP setup. Sez the webpage.

    Asking for set time/date from the control center with time zone Berlin put me several hours in the future.
    Now after waiting a while time shown in conky is correct. I guess to find out if the update came from connmann I must skew
    the BIOS time and see if it gets corrected. I can not find any other NTP application. Might be missing something though.

    #48136
    Member
    XecureXecure

    ntpdate and ntpdate-debian are the scripts used to update the time. ntpdate is called by the option “Use Internet Time server to set automatic time/date” in “Set date and Time” program (launched from Control Centre). You can also call it from the terminal giving it a ntp server address. There probably is also another process that calls ntpdate (I believe antiX 17 had it, but I may be making things up).
    ntpdate-debian
    also performs the time sync, but you don’t need to give it a ntp server address (there is already a list available in some file).

    Except if there is something really wrong with the computer (or you need some software to be in perfect sync with time), calling the ntp server for updating the time once a day is more than enough (I would even argue once a week is more than enough). Once a minute is overkill. Once an hour is good for people who need it.

    We are accustomed to turning wifi on, but on most DEs, Linux systems and other OSs, everything is ready for most users, so they don’t expect it to have to turn a wifi switch. I think having that option enabled by default would be good (if this can be done by editing the settings file you found during the ISO building process). This way the mini-script to start wifi that PPC and BobC were proposing would not be needed.

    #48142
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    So it seems a number of the connman features listed below are at present unused or even causing some problems.

    source: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/connman/connman.git/about/

    The following features are built-in into Connection Manager:
    – Generic plugin infrastructure
    – Device and network abstraction (with basic storage support)
    – IPv4, IPv4-LL (link-local) and DHCP
    – IPv4 address conflict detection (ACD) according to RFC 5227
    – IPv6, DHCPv6 and 6to4 tunnels
    – Advanced routing and DNS configuration
    – Built-in DNS proxy and intelligent caching
    – Built-in WISPr hotspot logins and portal detection
    – Time and timezone configuration (manual and automatic with NTP)
    – Proxy handling (manual and automatic with WPAD)
    – Tethering support (USB, Bluetooth and WiFi AP mode)
    – Detailed statistics handling (home and roaming)

    Various plugins can be enabled for networking support:
    – Ethernet plugin
    – WiFi plugin with WEP40/WEP128 and WPA/WPA2 (personal and enterprise)
    – Bluetooth plugin (using BlueZ)
    – 2G/3G/4G plugin (using oFono)

    Also plugins with additional features are available:
    – Loopback interface setup
    – PACrunner proxy handling
    – PolicyKit authorization support
    ——————————————————————————————
    #Regarding: Except if there is something really wrong with the computer (or you need some software to be in perfect sync with time),
    calling the ntp server for updating the time once a day is more than enough (I would even argue once a week is more than enough).
    Once a minute is overkill. Once an hour is good for people who need it.

    Standard for NTP: as below, from https://linux.die.net/man/8/ntpd
    according to the manpage the polling interval can be increased but that can be detrimental. For sure connman is at first polling way too often at about 3 seconds.

    default, ntpd runs in continuous mode where each of possibly several external servers is polled at
    intervals determined by an intricate state machine. The state machine measures the incidental
    roundtrip delay jitter and oscillator frequency wander and determines the best poll interval using a
    heuristic algorithm. Ordinarily, and in most operating environments, the state machine will start
    with 64s intervals and eventually increase in steps to 1024s. A small amount of random variation is
    introduced in order to avoid bunching at the servers. In addition, should a server become unreachable
    for some time, the poll interval is increased in steps to 1024s in order to reduce network overhead.

    #48196
    Moderator
    AvatarBobC

    Turning the wifi switch on only solves the problem for people connecting to open wifi hubs. Those are not normally used here except at public libraries and restaurants, and many of those require You Go to a sign on screen before you can access sites on the internet . Most systems just pop up the network connection system if they see you didn’t connect automatically via cable. Expecting everyone to figure it out on their own without even a familiar icon in the tray or toolbar is going to result in continued problems with people making wrong guesses as to how they should connect.

    Btw, I was noticing the weird network traffic, and wifi being turned off too, so this is great that you guys figured that out.

    #48202
    Member
    XecureXecure

    OK. We could reuse the cmst icons for connman-ui (or create a new set if you think there are better icons out there). The icon will be there on the system tray on first boot if it launched by the startup file (as that is how it is right now). Having a pop-up message is overkill (and annoying if it pops up every time a desktop-session is changed). I usually test offline and only connect if needed, so that is why I am against it.

    Also, having to comment out a big chunk of code on the startup file to disable this behavior is not desirable. cmst already launched by default on the startup script. Let it continue being this way. People will know to search for the icon if it is available on the system tray.
    People are not dumb. Once wifi is on by default, there is no longer a “why is this distro so stupid that wifi is disabled” response, as the wifi switch will be on by default.

    #48224
    Member
    Avatarpepitofer

    I have applied this configuration:

    [global]
    OfflineMode=false
    TimeUpdates=manual
    TimezoneUpdates=auto

    and the NTP traffic is now only coming from the ntpd in a more “relaxed” way.
    So the system is still updating the time and the configuration of ntp can be setup to query on a desired basis. I don’t know how to configure this with connman or if it is even possible at all in an easy way.

    Before that I tried the UseGatewaysAsTimeservers = false option but it didn’t seem to work as it kept sending traffic to the gateway.

    Having ntpd active and the ntp feature in connman seems redundant to me, and in my environment I believe that ntpd is enough.

    About having WIFI and Bluetooth activated by default in the liveUSB seems a very good idea in my opinion.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by pepitofer.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by pepitofer. Reason: add info an typos
    #48487
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    Please would one of the resident experts explain how NTP support is working in a standard antiX implementation. None of my boxes have other
    than sntp installed. When time was seriously skewed, for example when winter time was introduced we needed to use the control center button to
    update time. Or maybe we needed to wait for hours?. normaly NTP seems to take specified 15 Minutes.

    Background being consider usage of connman NTP or completely blocking the function which is compiled in to the included version.

    Some more than usual man page info on connman and its work in progress/issues can be found here
    https://01.org/jira/projects/CM/issues/CM-695?filter=allissues

    #48529
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    one of the resident experts

    Dear Moddit, I reckon all the Elvis impersonators have left the building.
    We must learn together what-makes-it-tick.

    Said differently:
    This is my profound (see: definition 2b, or 3a) worry, extending to our children.
    The brain pool has been drained.
    Moo, and boohoo ~~ hobby linux is not a Cash_cow.
    The truly hardcode geeks have vacated; their attention is now toward android and other disparate platforms.

    #48554
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    Unwilling to confess my degree of paranoia, I opened this topic by mentioning “bug?” and/or “wasted bandwidth”.

    skidoo won’t even ifup eth0 without first drawing the curtains closed.
    Paranoia, or OCD control-freakishness?

    Call it whatever you will…

    a few blips with 500 bytes or less, I wouldn’t even raise an eyelid in wonder

    …just understand that I cannot entertain the defeatist(?) outlook reflected in that comment.

    #48555
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    paraphrasing the earlier post, “we are saddled with learning together what-makes-it-tick”

    This post is a WIP, sharing notes-to-self while researching
    what-makes-it-tick on a current release antiX system

    apropos ntp
    (too many noisy results, so whittle the list)
    apropos ntp | grep -v mount | grep -v ‘(3)’

    apropos time
    (too many results, so whittle the list)
    apropos time | grep [^-lk]time[^lzisot] | grep -v [Dd]ate | grep -v UUID | grep -v SSL

    Why do we need NTP?
    man adjtime_config
    (as manpage explains, “drift” inaccuracy is inherent in every hwclock)

    Through the years, probably the only detail I had ever “needed/cared to know about NTP” was (in the context of firewall maintenance) the IANA port assignements for NTP traffic iana.org/…/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers…search=ntp

    locate ntp | grep -e ‘[^iune]ntp[^a]’ | grep -v ‘dpkg/info’ | grep -v ‘/icons’
    ^—v
    /usr/local/share/live-files/general-files/etc/default/ntpdate

    # The settings in this file are used by the program ntpdate-debian, but not
    # by the upstream program ntpdate.

    # Set to “yes” to take the server list from /etc/ntp.conf, from package ntp,
    # so you only have to keep it in one place.
    NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF=yes

    # List of NTP servers to use (Separate multiple servers with spaces.)
    # Not used if NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF is yes.
    NTPSERVERS=”0.debian.pool.ntp.org 1.debian.pool.ntp.org 2.debian.pool.ntp.org 3.debian.pool.ntp.org”

    # Additional options to pass to ntpdate
    NTPOPTIONS=””

    ^— this may only be applicable to antiX livesession. Also, it may be irrelavent to the potentially-misconfigured connman default (new to the antiX19 release) but the presence of, and content of, this file indicates antiX dev curation is at play, over-and-above any default configurations inherited from debian.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by skidoo.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by skidoo.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by skidoo.
    #48562
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    > see what is taking place

    as seen via wireshark:
    Every 2 3 seconds
    “Who has 10.0.2.2? Please tell 10.0.2.15”

    and the output from this indicates the incessantly chatty process is connman:
    sudo watch -n 1 netstat -aenp

    #48575
    Forum Admin
    DaveDave

    For those who have been using conman, have they tried switching to ceni to see if the traffic quiets down?
    A large amount of who is … tell … can also be caused by settings in the router over/rather than one computer (unless it is one device always making the request. Alexa, smart bulbs, etc). I think tuning the lan would help lower these type of messages. (like shrinking the subnet, increasing lease times, etc) It has been a number years since I have extensively used anything from the network+ certification classes.

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #48605
    Member
    Avatarskidoo

    tried switching to ceni to see if the traffic quiets down?

    Yes. The incessant requests are absent when using ceni (which is my preferred utility anyhow).

    My testing environment is virtualbox (mentining in case that detail may trigger the problem, but that possiblity seems to be ruled out by other reporters in this topic) and the host has zero subnet peers.

    It has been a number years

    Aye. Although I can still recite the layers of the OSI networking model, I’ve spent too many years cooped up in the application layer…

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