- This topic has 28 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated Dec 21-5:00 pm by BitJam.
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Posts
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olsztyn
I may be missing something of importance when trying to understand the reason why most seem to opt for antiX Installed vs. antiX Frugal. It seems to me that Frugal seems far superior choice so I would appreciate someone could enlighten me on advantages.
From my understanding:
– Frugal is much more compact so therefore leaves more space for data
– Due to being more compact it should run faster on reasonable machines
– Huge advantage of Frugal is that it supports root persistence, so with manual option you can install and test various software without permanently making changes to system. If something is not working just reboot without saving changes and previous pristine state is restored.
– Once thoroughly tested and proved working as expected just commit changes through manual root persistence and subsequently remaster.
– User management seems working equally well on Frugal as on installed
– Frugal in default locked state (no automatic commitment of changes) is resistant to malware as much as reasonable in practice. If any malware manages to get in the system during current session it will be gone upon reboot thanks to manual persistence option as running system is practically locked until changes are explicitly committed.I would appreciate opinions showing any advantage of antiX Installed vs. what it seems to me far superior Frugal instance.
Thanks and Regards.Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
christophe
I wonder about this, too. I hope others weigh in on this, because it seems that — MAYBE — it’s just the old-fashioned routine that people are just used to? Maybe it’s just a comfortable way that is just the norm — and antiX is on the bleeding edge of how (Linux) computers will be run (eventually) in the years to come?
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
— and antiX is on the bleeding edge of how (Linux) computers will be run (eventually) in the years to come?
Indeed, we too often seem to follow a traditional way which is the way Windows works. Each time you reboot you may think you are booting the same what you booted up the last time but how can you be sure some unintended changes did not creep in? This problem is solved when no changes survive rebooting unless specifically intended and manually saved root persistence. Windows used to have a great third party software (Deep Freeze) that did exactly this but this software eventually stopped working with Windows 10.
A great opportunity of antiX (as well as a few other Linux OS architectures such as TinyCore) is so OS boots reliably each time in the same state (Live or Frugal), with manual root persistence. This is a key requirement for security and reliability that is needed for anything serious. This would be banking, appliances or any other serious and predictable use and not just ‘playing with’… Vast majority of OS users do not need their OS to ‘play with’ but rather to work each time they boot. Reliably and predictably, in the same state.
So this is an opportunity that needs to be realized.Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
fatmac
I install because it’s easy, & the way it’s always been. 🙂
There are some advantages to having a known clean system, from ‘live’/’frugal’, but I’ve never had any problems, so I just install as usual.
Linux (& BSD) since 1999
caprea
I am installing or using a live usb version
I did a frugal installation once or twice, out of curiosity and to see how things work.
But I have to say, the more you both talk about the topic the more interesting the whole thing sounds to me.
So this thread is a good idea.kernelpanic
hmmmm … installing antiX the “traditional” way for over 10 years now.
olsztyn, you really got me thinking about this, too.ONE advantage of a traditionally installed system (for me as a linux-multibooter)
is the access to all system data without booting the system.example:
Let`s say my working OS is antix17. for some reason I broke it into an unbootable system.
So I just boot another OS (maybe antix19) on a different partition, other drive or external flash.
Now I can mount the partition of the broken OS, check all data and repair the system.
I can not do that to a “closed” frugal installed system.Just ONE advantage I can think of right now. Is it worth the full install? I don`t know 😉
I am installing or using a live usb version
Yes. I meant Live USB and Frugal being the same in terms of security and preserving state. If you do not automatically commit changes on exit, that is in both…
I am also using mostly Live USB, little Cruzer plugs in several laptops. Thanks to compact nature of antiX it is sufficiently fast on USB 2.0.Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_ParametersDaveW
For me, Live USB is a great system backup. It is also a good way to experiment with new software, without messing up a stable system. (Although I am fully capable of messing up a stable system anyway.)
However, on my computers, an installed operating system is noticeably faster. This is especially true on my Asus eeepc 900, but still noticeable on my Dell D620. Both of these have solid state drives (an SSD was installed in the D620 following HDD failure).
The observation above, by kernelpanic, is also very valid. Data is more likely to be recoverable from a crashed installation than from a crashed Live USB.
rayluo
I may be missing something of importance when trying to understand the reason why most seem to opt for antiX Installed vs. antiX Frugal. It seems to me that Frugal seems far superior choice so I would appreciate someone could enlighten me on advantages.
From my understanding:
– Frugal is much more compact so therefore leaves more space for data
– Due to being more compact it should run faster on reasonable machines
– Huge advantage of Frugal is that it supports root persistence, so with manual option you can install and test various software without permanently making changes to system. If something is not working just reboot without saving changes and previous pristine state is restored.
– Once thoroughly tested and proved working as expected just commit changes through manual root persistence and subsequently remaster.
– User management seems working equally well on Frugal as on installed
– Frugal in default locked state (no automatic commitment of changes) is resistant to malware as much as reasonable in practice. If any malware manages to get in the system during current session it will be gone upon reboot thanks to manual persistence option as running system is practically locked until changes are explicitly committed.I would appreciate opinions showing any advantage of antiX Installed vs. what it seems to me far superior Frugal instance.
Thanks and Regards.Thanks olsztyn for summarizing all these benefits in an eloquent way! I cannot say better than that. 🙂 Personally I go even more extreme to use only LiveUSB. It has all the benefits olsztyn mentioned above, plus you can have your familiar environment go with you, if/when you happen to need to frequently switch between multiple computers. (Speed of LiveUSB would presumably be slower than frugal install, but still fast enough during a reboot, and not noticeable after booting-up, but this one is off-topic here anyway.)
ONE advantage of a traditionally installed system (for me as a linux-multibooter)
is the access to all system data without booting the system.example:
Let`s say my working OS is antix17. for some reason I broke it into an unbootable system.
So I just boot another OS (maybe antix19) on a different partition, other drive or external flash.
Now I can mount the partition of the broken OS, check all data and repair the system.
I can not do that to a “closed” frugal installed system.Just ONE advantage I can think of right now. Is it worth the full install? I don`t know
The observation above, by kernelpanic, is also very valid. Data is more likely to be recoverable from a crashed installation than from a crashed Live USB.
Sorry, I don’t get this one.
* First of all, using a frugal system and/or LiveUSB, your system is always in pristine condition on every reboot, so you are much less likely to get into the “broke an installed system into an unbootable system” status in the first place.
* Secondly, if your solution to the above situation is to “just boot **another** OS … on a different partition, other drive or external flash” anyway, you are essentially already relying on a separated OS on a different partition (which might as well be a frugal install), or on a external flash (which might as well be an antiX LiveUSB), so again, you might as well just use a frugal or LiveUSB to begin with, and then use another LiveUSB to rescue.
PS: Of course, the assumption/suggestion here is, when using frugal/LiveUSB, you still store most of your valuable data on a harddisk/SSD, rather than storing your data on a physically unreliable flash drive.
rayluo
I may be missing something of importance when trying to understand the reason why most seem to opt for antiX Installed vs. antiX Frugal. It seems to me that Frugal seems far superior choice so I would appreciate someone could enlighten me on advantages.
From my understanding:
– Frugal is much more compact so therefore leaves more space for data
– Due to being more compact it should run faster on reasonable machines
– Huge advantage of Frugal is that it supports root persistence, so with manual option you can install and test various software without permanently making changes to system. If something is not working just reboot without saving changes and previous pristine state is restored.
– Once thoroughly tested and proved working as expected just commit changes through manual root persistence and subsequently remaster.
– User management seems working equally well on Frugal as on installed
– Frugal in default locked state (no automatic commitment of changes) is resistant to malware as much as reasonable in practice. If any malware manages to get in the system during current session it will be gone upon reboot thanks to manual persistence option as running system is practically locked until changes are explicitly committed.I would appreciate opinions showing any advantage of antiX Installed vs. what it seems to me far superior Frugal instance.
Thanks and Regards.Thanks olsztyn for summarizing all these benefits in an eloquent way! I cannot say it better than that. 🙂 Personally I go even more extreme to use only LiveUSB. It has all the benefits olsztyn mentioned above, plus you can have your familiar environment go with you, if/when you happen to need to frequently switch between multiple computers. (Speed of LiveUSB would presumably be slower than frugal install, but still fast enough during a reboot, and not noticeable after booting-up, but this one is off-topic here anyway.)
ONE advantage of a traditionally installed system (for me as a linux-multibooter)
is the access to all system data without booting the system.example:
Let`s say my working OS is antix17. for some reason I broke it into an unbootable system.
So I just boot another OS (maybe antix19) on a different partition, other drive or external flash.
Now I can mount the partition of the broken OS, check all data and repair the system.
I can not do that to a “closed” frugal installed system.Just ONE advantage I can think of right now. Is it worth the full install? I don`t know
The observation above, by kernelpanic, is also very valid. Data is more likely to be recoverable from a crashed installation than from a crashed Live USB.
Sorry, I don’t get this one.
* First of all, using a frugal system and/or LiveUSB, your system is always in pristine condition on every reboot, so you are much less likely to get into the “broke an installed system into an unbootable system” status in the first place.
* Secondly, if your solution to the above situation is to “just boot **another** OS … on a different partition, other drive or external flash” anyway, you are essentially already relying on a separated OS on a different partition (which might as well be a frugal install), or on a external flash (which might as well be an antiX LiveUSB), so again, you might as well just use a frugal or LiveUSB to begin with, and then use another LiveUSB to rescue.
PS: Of course, the assumption/suggestion here is, when using frugal/LiveUSB, you still store most of your valuable data on a harddisk/SSD, rather than storing your data on a physically unreliable flash drive. This way, your frugal/LiveUSB is really just a reproducible and replaceable boot method.
Personally I go even more extreme to use only LiveUSB. It has all the benefits olsztyn mentioned above, plus you can have your familiar environment go with you, if/when you happen to need to frequently switch between multiple computers. (Speed of LiveUSB would presumably be slower than frugal install, but still fast enough during a reboot, and not noticeable after booting-up, but this one is off-topic here anyway.)
Thanks rayluo. Great points. Just to mention I am also using mostly Live USB on multiple laptops exactly for the reasons you outlined above. The only reason I used Frugal in comparison to Installed was so disk speed would not be a deciding factor in such comparison, in fact Frugal should be (theoretically) faster.
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_ParametersSorry, I don’t get this one.
If you “don’t get it”, it’s obviously no problem for you, so don’t worry about it 😉
I just wanted to point out that you don’t have access to any files in a frugal installed system, as long as it is not booted,
all data are sitting in a kind of “closed container”.Personally I prefer a system that’s giving me access from the “outside”, just an old habit.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by kernelpanic.
I just wanted to point out that you don’t have access to any files in a frugal installed system, as long as it is not booted,
all data are sitting in a kind of “closed container”.In my understanding this is a correct statement. I think this would also apply to Live USB. So if it is indeed as you say (and as I also understand) this seems another significant advantage of Frugal or Live USB as built-in privacy – your data is private, secure from external, likely unauthorized access. This means you can rely such Live/Frugal instance to safeguard your personal banking information, your logins to banks, including cookies to eBay, email and anything else you want to protect from being available through simply booting another partition or OS.
For Live USB instance an additional protection is encryption, which I believe is missing option for Frugal.Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameterschristophe
I just wanted to point out that you don’t have access to any files in a frugal installed system, as long as it is not booted,
all data are sitting in a kind of “closed container”.That’s a good point. I ran into this, lol. I couldn’t get in to fix it! Thankfully, I just booted without persistence & deleted my rootfs, falling back to my most-recent remastered state.
For my uses, I keep a regular install on my main machine(s), and make live-usbs & frugals for “special projects.” Mostly, once testing is done on the live/frugals, I just “lock it down” with only home persistence (or no persistence), switching over to add (static) root persist only for occasional upgrades (and then remastering).
I’m just grateful that antiX is so flexible to allow these “antics.”
- This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by christophe. Reason: clarification
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
christophe
For Live USB instance an additional protection is encryption, which I believe is missing option for Frugal.
In my experience, EVERYTHING that can be done in live-usb can be done in frugal. The relevant command line switch just needs to be manually added. I’ve never used encryption, but I suspect it should work with the right boot-entry added…
confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019
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