Installed vs. Frugal – Opinion

[Member olsztyn]

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christophe wrote:

In my experience, EVERYTHING that can be done in live-usb can be done in frugal. The relevant command line switch just needs to be manually added. I’ve never used encryption, but I suspect it should work with the right boot-entry added…

Would you happen to know specifically how it can be accomplished?

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Moderator christophe]

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Short answer: No. I’ve never used encryption, so you may be right.

Long answer: Since I do my frugals in a manual way, I was assuming you would make an encrypted live-usb, copy the “antiX” folder to your hard drive, and set up the encryption key in a boot parameter to unlock to filesystem on boot, prompting for password. I admit I’m totally ignorant on the subject, and upon a cursory search and further thought, this may not be possible to even access the usb in a root file manager?

confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

[Anonymous]

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This topic has drifted evolved a bit, eh.

a seldom-mentioned limitation:
(Who cares? I do. If you don’t, that’s fine too.)

The / filesystem of frugal (or liveUSB) cannot support setting “extended user attributes” on files.
We cannot, for instance, set the immutable flag for a file
chattr +i somefile

[Member seaken64]

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I find this thread interesting. I’m not sure of the pros and cons of either. But I have been guilty of installing to a partition because it’s the way I’ve always done it. Recently I tried installing antiX as frugal on a system I already had MX on the hard drive. I found I can install more than one instance of antiX as frugal installs and just add them to the grub boot manager. I experiment with separate installs a lot and this has saved me from the usual partitioning. Just install as frugal and be done with it. I find the frugal installs just as responsive as the hard drive installs.

Seaken64

[Member olsztyn]

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seaken64 wrote:

I found I can install more than one instance of antiX as frugal installs and just add them to the grub boot manager.

Thank you for pointing this out. Indeed, multiple instances of Frugal install on the same partition is another great feature.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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olsztyn wrote:

seaken64 wrote:

I found I can install more than one instance of antiX as frugal installs and just add them to the grub boot manager.

Thank you for pointing this out. Indeed, multiple instances of Frugal install on the same partition is another great feature.

That is what I have on this laptop.

ls -l
total 1048704
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 18 14:40 antiX-Frugal-Buster-32
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 20 13:26 antiX-Frugal-Buster-64
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Oct 22 16:39 antiX-Frugal-Jessie-32
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Oct 22 23:42 antiX-Frugal-Jessie-64
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 19 16:16 antiX-Frugal-Sid-32
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 19 16:16 antiX-Frugal-Sid-64
drwxr-xr-x   6 root root       4096 Nov 21 18:29 antiX-Frugal-Stretch-64
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 19 16:17 antiX-Frugal-Testing
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root       4096 Nov 18 17:38 antiX-Frugal-xfce

and my /etc/grub.d/40_custom looks like this

#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.

menuentry "antiX-32 testing frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Testing/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Testing bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Testing/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-32-Xfce frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-xfce/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-xfce bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-xfce/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-64-stretch frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Stretch-64/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Stretch-64 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Stretch-64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-32-sid frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Sid-32/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Sid-32 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Sid-32/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-64-sid frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Sid-64/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Sid-64 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Sid-64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-64-buster frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Buster-64/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Buster-64 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Buster-64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-32-buster frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Buster-32/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Buster-32 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Buster-32/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-32-jessie frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Jessie-32/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Jessie-32 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Jessie-32/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-64-jessie frugal" {
set root='hd0,gpt1'
linux /antiX-Frugal-Jessie-64/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-Frugal-Jessie-64 bdev=sda1 persist quiet nocheckfs nostore disable=lx 
initrd /antiX-Frugal-Jessie-64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "antiX-19 ISO boot" {
     echo Boot disk address is: $root

     set iso='/antiX-19.a1_x64-full.iso'
     set bootparms='from=all quiet persist nocheckfs'

     search -f $iso --set=root

     echo ISO root is:          $root
     echo ISO is:               $iso
     echo Boot parms are:       $bootparms
     echo
     loopback loop $iso
     linux (loop)/antiX/vmlinuz fromiso=$iso $bootparms
     initrd (loop)/antiX/initrd.gz
     echo Booting $iso}

menuentry "antiX-19 32 ISO boot" {
     echo Boot disk address is: $root

     set iso='/antiX-19.a1_386-full.iso'
     set bootparms='from=all quiet persist nocheckfs'

     search -f $iso --set=root

     echo ISO root is:          $root
     echo ISO is:               $iso
     echo Boot parms are:       $bootparms
     echo
     loopback loop $iso
     linux (loop)/antiX/vmlinuz fromiso=$iso $bootparms
     initrd (loop)/antiX/initrd.gz
     echo Booting $iso}

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Moderator christophe]

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and my /etc/grub.d/40_custom looks like this

anti, many thanks for that — I was just going to have to search for that sort of template tonight!

confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

[Member olsztyn]

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christophe wrote:

I was just going to have to search for that sort of template tonight!

Christophe:
To make it really easy: Ready to go entries are created with each Frugal install. Just cut and paste to grub list (/etc/grub.d/40_custom) to show selections in grub. Just remember to refresh grub after paste.
There is an excellent video on this too.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Member Vincent17]

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Thanks, this entire discussion, especially the sample grub entries, was very helpful.
I wondered if it was possible to make several frugal installs without making copies of initrd.gz, vmlinuz and linuxfs (I am frugal with disk space). I tried making a new folder antiX-2, used dd and mkfs to create new homefs and rootfs there, then made a symlink to ../antiX-1/linuxfs. Grub entry:

menuentry "Second antiX Frugal Install" {
    search --set=root --fs-uuid #
    linux /antiX-1/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-2/ buuid=# quiet persist_all
    initrd /antiX-1/initrd.gz
}

So far, it works… Is there a better way? Anyone foresee problems with this?
Thanks

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Vincent17.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Vincent17.

[Forum Admin BitJam]

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I’m absolutely delighted you are playing like this!

Vincent17 wrote:

I wondered if it was possible to make several frugal installs without making copies of initrd.gz, vmlinuz and linuxfs (I am frugal with disk space).

If you just want to change the persistence files then you could use the “pdir=xxx” option to just put the persistence files under a different directory. This is seldom used so it is possible it may break some things.

used dd and mkfs to create new homefs and rootfs there

Often “fallocate” is better than “dd” since fallocate will default to making a sparse file. Also, on the first persistent boot, we will offer to make those files for you if they don’t already exist. Or you could have copied rootfs and homefs from your previous frugal install, but it looks like you wanted to start over.

Is there a better way? Anyone foresee problems with this?

See above. We made the live system respect symlinks so you could play tricks like this but you will run into problems if you try to take things too far. For example, if you do a remaster then only one rootfs file will continue to work. The others will be locked out because they won’t work if the linuxfs file they are for has changed. Although there are manual ways around this. You won’t be able to do a live-usb-maker clone when you boot from your antiX-2 frugal install because we count on having the the boot/ directory under the frugal directory.

Another difference between bdir=xxx and pdir=xxx is we use the state/ directory under the bdir directory. So by using bdir= instead of pdir= you will be using two state/ directories.

We want to encourage playful behavior (“antiX” is pronounced like “antics”). I’d love to see if “pdir=antiX-2” works for you. Generally, basic things should work but if you push far enough, some things will eventually break. If they are easy to fix then we will try to fix them but we may not fix every edge case such as LUM cloning.

Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what’s a heaven for?

Context is worth 80 IQ points -- Alan Kay

[Member oops]

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… I use frugal mostly to use the x32 versions of antiX or MX to consume less memory and resources … But for me, frugal is not so perfect, I gess it uses prematuratly the sdd or hdd (read/write into only a small area ?)

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by oops.

[Member Vincent17]

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Bitjam, thanks for all the information.

you could use the “pdir=xxx” option to just put the persistence files under a different directory.

I removed symlink to linuxfs in antiX-3 and changed the grub to
linux /antiX-1/vmlinuz bdir=antiX-1/ pdir=antiX-3 buuid=# quiet persist_all
Success, and much neater! The boot-parameters wiki entry mentions pdev, plab etc. but not pdir. Should have tried it anyway :/

Good to know about fallocate.

I don’t know the implications of having multiple state directories; I’ll keep it in mind as I play with this.

We want to encourage playful behavior

Thanks for the encouragement and for the warnings.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Vincent17.

[Forum Admin BitJam]

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Vincent17 wrote:

The boot-parameters wiki entry mentions pdev, plab etc. but not pdir.

Oops. Sorry about that. There are more live boot parameters than are in the documentation. AFAIR, this is the first time anyone had a use for the pdir boot parameter. The pdev, plab, and puuid, parameters are useful for people who want persistence but can only boot from optical media, but this has been superseded by “from=usb” which will look for the linuxfs file only on usb devices. In turn “from=usb” has been superseded by the live rescue system (in antiX-19, written by fehlix) which lets you boot directly into installed systems and live systems. This is better than “from=usb” because “from=usb” requires the kernels be the same but the live rescue system does not.

I don’t know the implications of having multiple state directories; I’ll keep it in mind as I play with this.

State files are saved across reboots even with no persistence. In addition, machine state files are saved on a machine by machine basis. So, in theory, hardware settings for one machine won’t get carried over to other machines even when you have persistence enabled. Since you are running on only one machine and you use persistence, the state files should make very little difference to you. You can customize the lists sof state files by editing “general-state-files” and “machine-state-files” in the state/ subdirectory of your boot directory (where linuxfs was found).

Thanks for the encouragement and for the warnings.

Party on!

Context is worth 80 IQ points -- Alan Kay

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