Music and Poetry of Grup Yorum antiX

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  • This topic has 70 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated Aug 1-4:52 pm by olsztyn.
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 71 total)
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  • #70220
    Member
    Dzhigit

      Only after Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941

      That’s what I’m saying. NKVD had intelligence for months that Germany was going to attack but Stalin ignored it. Troops were ordered not to fire back until it was too late. 1/3 of Soviet air forces destroyed almost immediately. If not for Stalin we would have crushed the Nazis much more easily. Partition of Poland was somewhat justified because it liberated western Belarus and Ukraine. Everything else was a big mistake. Estonia and Latvia in 1940 were pro-Soviet and anti-Nazi. If we didn’t annex them, they would be allied or at least friendly to us today. It’s Stalin’s fault they hate us now.

      #70224
      Forum Admin
      anticapitalista

        Soviet Communism (sic) (better called Stalinism or state capitalism) was imperialist and expansionist.
        Pre-1917 revolution the Tsarist state was known as the ‘prison house of nations’ (Lenin).
        1917 revolution liberated them under the slogan of ‘right to self determination’.
        Stalinist Russia became the new ‘prison house of nations’ within the USSR and also outside ie its ‘satellite states’ in Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, the Baltic States and others.

        @Dzhigit – I agree with what you said about Trotsky and stopping Nazism.
        The Nazis should have never come to power. They could and should have been crushed at birth in the 20’s.
        Hitler’s rise to power (and Mussolini in Italy) was not inevitable.
        The workers movement had the power (but not the political leadership) to smash fascism well before it came to power.

        IMO Trotsky’s analysis of fascism remains invaluable to all of us fighting fascism today.

        Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

        antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

        #70300
        Member
        olsztyn

          Partition of Poland was somewhat justified because it liberated western Belarus and Ukraine. Everything else was a big mistake. Estonia and Latvia in 1940 were pro-Soviet and anti-Nazi. If we didn’t annex them, they would be allied or at least friendly to us today. It’s Stalin’s fault they hate us now.

          Invading and annexing other countries under pretense of ‘liberating’ minorities, just to include them in own ‘prison house of nations’… As long as you have the power to hold them by force. otherwise it falls apart and I cannot see Bielarus or Ukraine as loving Russia for that either…

          • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.
          • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

          Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
          http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

          #70313
          Member
          olsztyn

            Another great song by Grup Yorum – Dağlara Gel:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSnml2x4hyw

            I understand that the words are based on a poem by Gevherin, although I am still tracking down lyrics…

            Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
            http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

            #70331
            Member
            Eismckwadraat19

              Another great song Olsztyn 🙂
              Thank you

              Honestly, I didn’t know that Stalin did such bad things.
              In Kurdistan and Turkey he is seen by socialists as a good leader.
              but I think his crimes are obvious and he’s been a bad leader in the history.

              But I think the idea of a leader is region connected, so Europeans see Mustafa Kemal as the founder of modern Turkey.
              While millions in Turkey see him as a second Hitler.

              -I find capitalism repugnant. It is filthy, it is gross, it is alienating... because it causes war, hypocrisy and competition-

              Fidel Castro

              #70344
              Member
              olsztyn

                But I think the idea of a leader is region connected, so Europeans see Mustafa Kemal as the founder of modern Turkey.
                While millions in Turkey see him as a second Hitler.

                This is very interesting…
                To me it is surprising to hear that there are people in Turkey (millions?) who do not regard Mustafa Kemal Pasha as hero and great leader of Turkish nation…
                From what I know the reforms he advanced in Turkey were fundamental to transform that country from traditional to modern.
                Among others he had ordered when he came to power in 1923:
                – He ordered immediate replacement of Arabic script to writing based on European alphabet.
                – Ordered research and replacement of Arabic origin words with their equivalents in native Turkish language.
                – Fundamental economy changes.
                So it is surprising to me that some people do not see these great things that ended feudal relations and brought Turkey to modern world…
                I think even Grup Yorum regards him as great leader, if I am not mistaken… Although I have not seen songs about him by Grup Yorum…
                Thanks and Regards…

                • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

                Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
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                #70348
                Member
                Dzhigit

                  I cannot see Bielarus or Ukraine as loving Russia for that either…

                  Well Belarusians made a national holiday for it. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Unity_Day_(Belarus)

                  They were added to the prison, but if it didn’t happen, they would only have a tiny piece of territory once they become independent. I wish we did the same thing for Armenians in Turkey. Too late now.

                  #70349
                  Member
                  Eismckwadraat19

                    Agree, large parts within Turkish borders belong to the Armenians.
                    In fact, the houses and roads they built are still there.

                    But the reality is that in 2021 Azerbaijan and Turkey have conquered areas inhabited by the Armenians(Nagorno-Karabakh).
                    World was quiet… 🙁

                    -I find capitalism repugnant. It is filthy, it is gross, it is alienating... because it causes war, hypocrisy and competition-

                    Fidel Castro

                    #70350
                    Forum Admin
                    anticapitalista

                      Another great song by Grup Yorum – Dağlara Gel:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSnml2x4hyw

                      I understand that the words are based on a poem by Gevherin, although I am still tracking down lyrics…

                      Wonderful!

                      Same song – Not sure if it is in Kurdish or Turkish or both

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mih-SAO76Aw

                      αθάνατοι

                      Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                      antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                      #70351
                      Member
                      olsztyn

                        I wish we did the same thing for Armenians in Turkey. Too late now.

                        This I have to agree with you… Genocide of Armenians was a horrible thing. Later, in 1917, when Bolshevik revolution reached Azerbaijan, another killing of each other started with Azeris calling Turks to Azerbaijan to help them finish off Armenians…
                        In my great respect for Armenians (Ormians) I want to make an exception from only Grup Yorum songs and bring up to light a beautiful Armenian song sung by beautiful Xeda Hamzatova. Xeda (Heda) is from Chechen area but sings beutifully in Armenian. This song fascinated me for some time…
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZa7XElQ1Ig
                        Thanks for bringing up Armenian genocide topic…

                        Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                        http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                        #70354
                        Member
                        olsztyn

                          Wonderful!
                          Same song – Not sure if it is in Kurdish or Turkish or both
                          αθάνατοι

                          Thanks! I did not know this song was a part of one of Grup Yorum concerts still with Helin Bölek. Great performance…
                          Immortal indeed…

                          P.S.:
                          It is in Turkish for sure. You can easily distinguish Turkish from Kurdish – lots of umlauts, hard pronunciation and accent mostly on the last syllable, except suffixes…

                          • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

                          Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                          http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                          #70356
                          Forum Admin
                          anticapitalista

                            For a long time my neighbours downstairs were (they went back to Georgia a few years ago):

                            The mother – Armenian
                            The father – Georgian
                            The 2 daughters – both born in Greece
                            The grandfather – Armenian

                            The mother spoke Armenian, Georgian, Russian and Pontiaka (Greek from Pontus) as well as modern Greek.
                            She was sad that she couldn’t speak a ‘real’ language like English (her words not mine, and this made me sad)
                            and that in the area she was brought up in in Armenia had a significant Greek/Pontiaka minority.
                            The father spoke Georgian, Russian and Greek.
                            The grandfather spoke Armenian and only a little bit of Russian.
                            The kids were Greek speakers and the grandfather tried to get them to also speak in Armenian, but only the youngest was interested.

                            As well as the genocide of Armenians, there was also the mass slaughter of Pontic Greeks that began in 1914. (I deliberately refrain from using the word ‘genocide’ in this case because it is the language used by Greek nationalists). However, it is true to say that this ethnic cleansing did exist, just like the ethnic cleaning of Muslims (mostly Turks but also Albanians) happened in the same period in Greece.

                            The songs of Grup Yorum and the poets and poetry mentioned in this thread believe (ultimately) in the destruction of what we call nations.

                            BTW – I live a 15 minute walk away from Ataturk’s place of birth.

                            Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

                            antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

                            #70357
                            Member
                            Eismckwadraat19

                              You live so close to Mustafa Kemals house 🙂
                              How do Greeks see him?
                              Too bad that Armenian lady only sees English as a real language…

                              I wonder, are the Laz people (in Turkey) actually Greek?
                              This is a highly assimilated group.
                              Most are even mostly Turkish Nationalist.
                              Came to my mind when you wrote about Pontic Greeks

                              -I find capitalism repugnant. It is filthy, it is gross, it is alienating... because it causes war, hypocrisy and competition-

                              Fidel Castro

                              #70366
                              Member
                              olsztyn

                                I wonder, are the Laz people (in Turkey) actually Greek?

                                From what I read Lazi people are not Greek but came originally from the area of Abkhazia and from I understand they do not speak Greek. Their language is from Kartvelian family, which appears not related to other language families, such as Indo-European, to which Greek belongs along with English and other European languages, except Hungarian and Finnish.

                                BTW – I live a 15 minute walk away from Ataturk’s place of birth.

                                More and more looks to me that many famous people were either born or live in Thessaloniki…

                                The songs of Grup Yorum and the poets and poetry mentioned in this thread believe (ultimately) in the destruction of what we call nations.

                                Perhaps in the next millennium… But perhaps much sooner if a few big companies take over control of the entire world over governments and people become just a grey workforce working for the elites in control. Such scenarios from Sci-Fi movies may not be too far off…
                                What matters to me is the spirit in these people, even if they represent unrealistic dreams and are misguided on some details of ideology. This spirit and dedication is so deep in their hearts that they are ready to die young for their cause. Spirit rarely seen in Western world…
                                From classic tragedy represented by works of Sophocles or Euripides, it is not tragedy when a good person dies from the hands of a bad one, but it is when a good person dies from the hands of good one or by a mistake made.
                                Her sacrifice and death of Helin Bölek was a very sad event. In Turkish style it deserves sad remembrance equal to one, when şehzade Mustafa died (Muhteşem Yüzyıl – Magnificent Century):

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZTu-pXtKFA

                                Perhaps for a different ideology though…

                                • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.
                                • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.
                                • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

                                Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                                http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

                                #70450
                                Member
                                olsztyn

                                  Just want to highlight the huge support in Greece and elsewhere to Grup Yorum. The following video shows a protest march in Athens for Grup Yorum on June 2, 2020:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WXaHlSk3iY

                                  And clash with police of pro Grup Yorum demonstrators in Greece on Sept. 26, 2020:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A60Nd8hzWOQ

                                  And in Dortmund, Germany demonstration on Sept. 26, 2017, singing ‘Bella Ciao’:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i5GaCIqVyQ

                                  Unfortunately that after loss of Helin Bölek and İbrahim Gökçek this group of singers and musicians is not the same anymore. Banned in Turkey altogether as I understand…

                                  • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by olsztyn.

                                  Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
                                  http://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

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