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RJP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
Nineteen Eighty-Four (also published as 1984) is a dystopian social science fiction novel and cautionary tale by English writer George Orwell. It was published on 8 June 1949 by Secker & Warburg as Orwell’s ninth and final book completed in his lifetime. Thematically, it centres on the consequences of totalitarianism, mass surveillance and repressive regimentation of people and behaviours within society.[2][3] Orwell, a democratic socialist, modelled the authoritarian state in the novel on Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany.[2][3][4] More broadly, the novel examines the role of truth and facts within societies and the ways in which they can be manipulated.
Robin
Nineteen Eighty-Four (also published as 1984) is a dystopian social science fiction novel and cautionary tale by English writer George Orwell.
A brilliant Writer, and an excellent piece of modern World literature he has written. Everybody should have read it at least once in his life.
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
olsztyn
RJP wrote:
Nineteen Eighty-Four (also published as 1984) is a dystopian social science fiction novel and cautionary tale by English writer George Orwell.
A brilliant Writer, and an excellent piece of modern World literature he has written. Everybody should have read it at least once in his life.I read this some time ago and also saw the movie. Well done. This system is gradually coming, being very late already – 2023 instead of 1984…
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
anticapitalista
“If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They need only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
Unfortunately times have changed a lot since and it is far more difficult now for ‘masses’ to be any significant power anymore. The worlds economy is practically controlled by handful of international ultra rich ones behind the scene, deciding fate of countries, governments, instituting politicians in the highest posts to execute their strategy. Judges are being educated, indoctrinated and put in place to make sure any attempt of ‘insurrection’ is dealt with swiftly (Soros comes here to mind as one example).
Masses are being prepared for obedience, so directives of the governments are obeyed to the letter. No dissent is tolerated anymore.
Masses will only be meant as obedient and powerless gray work-force. Masses will not rise anymore. People are in historically tolerable living conditions to sacrifice life for the sake of utopian ideas…Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parametersanticapitalista
Unfortunately times have changed a lot since and it is far more difficult now for ‘masses’ to be any significant power anymore. The worlds economy is practically controlled by handful of international ultra rich ones behind the scene, deciding fate of countries, governments, instituting politicians in the highest posts to execute their strategy. Judges are being educated, indoctrinated and put in place to make sure any attempt of ‘insurrection’ is dealt with swiftly (Soros comes here to mind as one example).
Masses are being prepared for obedience, so directives of the governments are obeyed to the letter. No dissent is tolerated anymore.
Masses will only be meant as obedient and powerless gray work-force. Masses will not rise anymore. People are in historically tolerable living conditions to sacrifice life for the sake of utopian ideas…This is ‘exactly’ what Orwell describes in 1984 (minus Soros), yet he (and I) still see the only way out is through proletarian revolution.
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.
This is ‘exactly’ what Orwell describes in 1984 (minus Soros), yet he (and I) still see the only way out is through proletarian revolution.
However today is not the times of french revolution or 1917, with rifles on both sides… Now it is technology and capability of weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological if need be, against just guns and rifles on the other side. Capability of execution is way different than used to be…
P.S.
Surprising perspective as it might seem, collapse of the Communist block was not beneficial for working class in the West. Now there is no real competition in the world to make governments care about people…- This reply was modified 1 month ago by olsztyn.
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters
andyprough
However today is not the times of french revolution or 1917, with rifles on both sides… Now it is technology and capability of weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological if need be, against just guns and rifles on the other side. Capability of execution is way different than used to be…
Historically, revolution has almost always meant nearly certain death to most of the participants. Doesn’t really matter if you get hung, stabbed, slashed, shot, exploded, or atomized. Dead is dead. If people want revolutionary change, they can’t be afraid of dying.
If people want revolutionary change, they can’t be afraid of dying.
Yes, indeed, I concur with this statement. And I believe active participants of such events in the past did understand such principle.
However, To clarify and paraphrase some of the previously mentioned reasons why the traditional notion of proletariat revolution cannot succeed in our times (100 years later):– Proletariat in the traditional meaning does not exist in the West anymore due to tolerable and often somewhat comfortable life quality for the working class, including token ownership. This would defeat the original classification of proletariat. Fact is that status and quality of life for the working class gradually deteriorated after 1989 (Fall of the Communist block), but still it is not proletariat. Having relatively comfortable quality of life does not typically force people to rise up and stage a revolution.
– Even if such condition should arise, for people to rise up in arms, the success of such strategy is rather unrealistic due to overwhelming disparity in capability of execution: A bunch of people with just handguns and rifles against the state with tactical weapons with precision technology, real time visual surveillance, mass destruction if needed.
And here my reference to people with handguns and rifles is only applicable to the USA, where it has been provided in the constitution that individuals have the right to own firearm, originally meant to defend from oppressive government. In Europe I think all such firearm ownership is more restricted so such proletariat may not even have such option…
If the definition and meaning of proletariat is updated to the realities of our times, then a different strategy would need to be adopted. But what is such strategy to defeat that ruling consortium of those international ultra rich who control the Western world and those in power? Certainly not ‘democratic’ elections, as they can be easily manipulated and ‘amended’ to the advantage of the ‘deep state’ as we have seen…- This reply was modified 1 month ago by olsztyn.
Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_ParametersXunzi_23
In a Commons statement setting out the next stage in the plans to reduce asylum claims in the UK, Robert Jenrick, the immigration minister, said the plans would meet legal requirements to ensure that those who arrived were not made “destitute”, but nothing more.
“We must not elevate the wellbeing of illegal migrants above those of the British people,” he told MPs.
So in short, with exception of the upper crust the british people are declared just above destitute.
Extremely unusual for tory right wing scum to speak so openly….
It is also in a country run by the eton educated, right wing, lying anything for fast money doing self proclaimed upper classes unsurprising.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Xunzi_23.
blur13
I think the point is that if the masses rise up then it doesnt matter how much power the rulers have. What are they going to do? Kill them all? Then who is left to rule over?
PPC
I read 1984 when I was a teenager (I bought the book, in English, in a flea market, almost for free). It’s an hard book to read, because it’s not simply a narrative, but a study about what absolutist rulers can do to a world.
Strangely enough, I always thought that “The Prince” by Niccolò Machiavelli, is another great study on rulers – the main idea that I took from that book was that the Prince (the ruler) has to oppress the people, in some ways, to keep his power… but if he oppresses too much, the People will rise up, kill him and replace him with a new, more gentle “Prince” (and I assume, starting the cycle all over again)- Strange how a book about politics, written some 500 years ago still applies perfectly, in a time when we have robots exploring other worlds… Hum…I do not think that a major revolution is coming, not in the way people usually think about “People rising up”. I hope that technology will help a bit, with that, as it often helps change the world in unforeseen ways- what really ended up slavery in most parts of the world was probably not lots of people worrying about human rights, but the industrial revolution, that showed, The Money that it was far cheaper to pay a minimal amount to factory workers than having to own slaves… There were, probably slaves in ancient empires that lived way more comfortable lives (generally speaking) than most “Free People” in many parts of the world have today.
Strangely enough, reading comics offers also some insight about the world- I remember a comic book villain, in a particularly well written story, saying that he wanted to rule the world, that we would be a benevolent leader. When confronted with the argument that people praised Liberty above all else, he just answered: “No, people praise, above else, having enough food to eat”.
Considering all this assorted facts, I almost hope that some super-intelligent AI takes over the world and makes sure we all have enough to eat (but I hope not in a “Matrix” way, plugged to a machine, from birth to death).
On a more serious note – I’m not sure any popular rebellion will happen, on “Democratic” States. Most have very perfect ways to take care of people, but “The Money” is, in fact, keeping all the money. Probably 1% of the people in the world have some 90% of the economic resources in the World. Is that fair? Probably, to a degree, it’s always been that way. But is it fair to allow the stock market to sink a small company but close down that market when it hurts major investors? Hum…- Nope: that’s fixing the free market – it’s the “it’s the way capitalism works, unless it hurts our pockets”. We see that a lot, banks and companies, complaining that the State is intervening, not letting the Free Market self regulate… but when the Free Market begins to cause them losses, then both banks and companies beg for the State to intervene… so sometimes Capitalist works only one way. Change that, and maybe the world will be a better place.
P.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by PPC.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by PPC.
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