OT: Sometimes …

Forum Forums General Software OT: Sometimes …

This topic contains 28 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by rej Aug 29-11:54 am.

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  • #26229
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    BobC

    Great info, Dave, thanks.

    Rej, I suggest you test thoroughly ANYTHING you are going to try in test folders or test system before running on your main system.

    #26238
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    rej

    noClue-

    Thank you – this must have taken a lot of patience to compile this.

    I assumed that you have the basic Linux rights management understanding, but I was wrong.

    That is what I meant by “my inexperience on this level”, but always open to learn and “bork” as well.

    You’ve noticed missing “-R” in the last command?

    Not really – it appears in what I posted above – unless I am not seeing it.

    But I will try it the way it should have been done from your new instructions.
    —————–
    BobC-

    Thanks – downloaded and will try this out just to learn more.

    and don’t blame me if it causes trouble

    Never! It is all about testing and seeing what happens – everything is backed up one way or another anyway…
    —————–
    Dave –

    Thank you for clarifying! and added information.
    ____________________

    The thing that concerns me the most, even as there are many options for work-arounds, is that I get the feeling this isn’t just “wider Linux weirdness”, because of the following:

    In trying to uncover the root of what is causing this, yesterday I focused completely on the install media.

    Running the live USB – 19 B3 full version, “as is”, with only importing two Leafpad-created text files that came from a long-running problem-free, maintained, installation of antiX 17. These were the only 2 files on the empty Flash drive that they imported on – just for the sake of “purity”, if that is possible. Put them in my Home folder “documents” and looked at them in Rox-filer, checked the “permissions” and they were indeed now “executable” right on the install media, where those files are not “executable” on the laptop sitting next to it with antiX 17 running and where they came from.

    Next:

    1: Make new install media freshly downloaded B3 full version, with new USB drive on a completely different model and much newer computer. Same thing – those same files now have “executable permissions”.

    2: Download and install the Base version – on another completely different USB stick and device. Same again – those files have “executable permissions”.

    3: Install the Base version on a partition and see if on install, findings are different.

    what I noticed was they were still with “executable permissions”, yet appeared pretty normal, but still do not open in Rox-filer unless the right-click drop-down is used where you select, and even though I have set my “Preferred applications” to Leafpad, other options are listed first.

    SpaceFM has them in the “permissions” as “executable” but opens them normally by just clicking on them, as in my experience, Rox filer normally does.

    Everything appeared and behaved as almost normal text files when first installed even though they clearly had “executable permissions”. It was when I downloaded Gnome-icons and Simply-grey icons [from installed Synaptic] that it became very evident that something is wrong.

    4: Debian 10 “Buster” live install key – transferred same two testing files to the install media USB Home/documents and different result – the permissions are normal “read and write”.

    MX18 – permissions – normal, “read and write”.
    ________________________
    Like I said – like to learn new fixes and what things do, and using SpaceFM and Thunar is perfectly acceptable for my work (just stay with 17).

    However, my primary concern is with the final release, finding these problems with Rox and whatever might be connected with it.

    There are other anomalies with Rox filer and IceWM that do not occur in antiX 17, and I will not go into that in this thread, so as to not go off on tributaries and just stay focused with the files issue.

    I very much appreciate all the input and experience I am having here and learning from, as there is better chance of my being able to be help out more in the MX and antiX forums.

    Yet, if you do not feel that this Rox issue will be a problem in the final release or that this information is irrelevant, I do not want to take your valuable time and attention from what is more important for testing.

    #26251
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    rej

    noClue-

    Thanks for the explanation.

    used:

    rj@antix19rj:~
    $ su
    root@antix19rj:/home/rj# chown -R $USER:$USER /home/$USER
    root@antix19rj:/home/rj# chmod -R 755 /home/$USER
    root@antix19rj:/home/rj#

    Nothing changed (that is apparent) – permissions still the same.

    For proper understanding of Linux rights management, you should read some thorough explanations first!

    Thanks – Found some tutorials for this. One is specifically Debian.

    #26252
    Forum Admin
    Dave
    Dave

    Does the problem go away if you make those clean test files read and write only?

    If so two immediate issues come to mind that should be changed/ addressed in v19.
    1. The default umask is incorrect
    2. The live usb overlay setup is causing issue with file permissions.

    Both could have further consequences not yet discovered past what you have found. (example: applications menu not updating because the link permissions are incorrect?.?.?)

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #26253
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    BobC

    Dave,

    When I updated the permissions for all of my /home with recursive on from spacefm as root, unintentionally it did mess up ~/.icewm/menu-applications and the desktop literally had no applications menu as a result. I also got all applications flashing on the taskbar as I would bring them up. It was a mess. That was why I ended up reloading mine.

    It was not messed up until I did the recursive global change of owner and permissions. I tried fixing them, but I must not have gotten everything fixed correctly.

    rej’s situation may be different, I really don’t know, but it seemed similar.

    #26259
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    Anonymous

    For testing, you need a solid knowledge of rights/permissions and a solid knowledge of file systems and applications in use and OS itself, plus you need a plan (==”scenario”).

    Just as small examples: FAT32 will not keep the permissions, but NTFS will do … specific (first) user’s UID (id -u username) will usually be 1000, but some OS use 500 as default — under certain circumstances, you’ll not be able to access the files at all … when using NW shares, Gnome3 will preserve time stamps, KDE will not and other properties (like permissions) might get preserved or might get lost … some applications behave different than the others …

    Example scenario:

    I use a dozen of different OS’s and at least triple as many different applications.
    (Here you would like to make a detailed list of everything that’s relevant for you.)

    I’m a designer and a writer. Currently I’m redesigning antiX and need to add some new wallpapers. I’m also a “flash-writer”. I’ll not sit down and write my book, but I’ll keep my “inspiration flashes” down as they come and will put them together, like the pieces of a puzzle, at some later point. That has consequences. My way of writing means, I’ll be writing a couple of sentences at once at most, at some given time fragment, and that means, I’ll be using “anything that writes TXT”, regardless of device or application.

    Now watch carefully — examine the images at 1:1 (right click and open in new tab, enlarge if necessary):

    1. I started writing … “Siehst du die Milchstrasse?” … Textdatei_Neon.txt, kWrite on Neon (1st screenshot)

    2. Drinking my coffee, searching the web for some proper fitting wallpapers … I had another inspiration flash and my Devuan was at the hand.
    “Sie suchte nach der Antwort in den Augen ihres Spiegelbildes.” got kept as Leere_Datei_Devuan.txt in Mausepad on Devuan. (1st screenshot)

    3. I found some appropriate desktop wallpaper and I wanted to copy it to my antiX when I got another inspiration flash and I started writing again:
    “Du bist mein grösster Geschenk Maxine … Wenn du im Morgenlicht, neben mir aufwachst … flüsterte sie leise. Chloe schliss ihre Augen. “Oh …””
    To be able to find all those puzzle pieces for my story, they all get copied in one shared folder. (2nd screenshot)

    4. Time to check my puzzle pieces and bring them together … (3rd screenshot)

    5. Time to put the new discovered wallpapers to their place … (4th screenshot)

    Did you notice what happened with permissions?

    I copied the “essence of the night” [antix:vboxsf 770] and it become [root:root 750] and I moved “f25” which was [antix:vboxsf 770], but it preserved the properties and didn’t become owned by “root”.

    Copying single original text files, each with different owners, but all with same 644 rights, to a shared folder and back to antiX, the files kept the shared folder user and group, but changed the permissions to 770.

    Interesting, no?

    #26292
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    rej

    Hi Dave-

    Does the problem go away if you make those clean test files read and write only?

    Yes, and to my knowledge, they stay that way in Rox filer and SpaceFM through reboots. This would have to be done with every text file imported to 19.

    The files originated as Leafpad text files “read and write”, transferred from a hard disk installation of antiX 17, taken from its existing Home-documents file.

    #26318
    Forum Admin
    Dave
    Dave

    OK thanks.
    What does the command
    umask
    Show?

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #26322
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    rej

    rj@antix19rj:~
    $ umask
    0022
    rj@antix19rj:~
    $

    #26332
    Forum Admin
    Dave
    Dave

    Hmm that should be correct for making a file with 644 permissions.

    Perhaps more detail on the copying method. You are copying from

    Running the live USB – 19 B3 full version, “as is”, with only importing two Leafpad-created text files that came from a long-running problem-free, maintained, installation of antiX 17. These were the only 2 files on the empty Flash drive that they imported on – just for the sake of “purity”, if that is possible. Put them in my Home folder “documents” and looked at them in Rox-filer, checked the “permissions” and they were indeed now “executable” right on the install media, where those files are not “executable” on the laptop sitting next to it with antiX 17 running and where they came from.

    So, laptop -> usb #1 -> live usb instance on usb#2?

    If so what was the partition type on the first usb? How was the usb mounted? Also what was used to copy (import/export) the files from the install to usb#1 and then to the live usb?

    Hopefully I can trace the exact steps to see if the problem can be duplicated here.

    Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening Windows. ~Author Unknown

    #26376
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    rej

    Sorry Dave – hope I can clarify here. Please let me know, if not.

    So, laptop -> usb #1 -> live usb instance on usb#2?

    Yes.

    what was the partition type on the first usb?

    what was used to copy (import/export) the files from the install to usb#1 and then to the live usb?

    GParted – “msdos” partiton table. Fat32.

    USB #1 -Used an empty unpartitioned 32gb Kingston DataTraveler via “cut & paste” – to transfer the 2 existing text files from my documents in antiX 17.

    How was the usb mounted?

    Not sure what this means -Plugged into USB port – AntiX automatically mounts as far as I know.

    Bootable USBs for Betas – 16gb Sandisk Cruiser, 32gb Sandisk Dial, 64gb Kingston DataTraveler

    – no special partitioning – just let the antiX USB-maker do it with directly downloaded ISO Beta files from Sourceforge.

    ====================
    Opened an installed, running, fully configured antiX 17 on a laptop.

    Plugged an empty 32gb Kingston DataTraveler flashdrive into a USB port on the laptop.

    Took 2 random existing files, created with Leafpad as text documents and have permissions as “read and write” and “cut and pasted” them on the empty Kingston flashdrive.

    Shut down laptop and plugged in the Beta 3 bootable USB live install media and booted.

    Then plugged in the other USB flashdrive and transferred [cut & paste] those 2 Leafpad text files to live Beta 3 install media Home/documents.

    These two files open immediately in Rox filer as “executable” permissions in the “USB live Beta” 3 install media “Home/documents”, even though they actually originated in my antiX 17 HD installation as “read and write” only.

    Now, take these 2 Leafpad text files (now considered executable by Rox), cut & paste them back onto the empty 32 GB Kingston DataTraveler USB flashdrive, bring them back to my antiX 17 installation on the hard drive and they are immediately again recognized as normal “read and write” text files. The files’ permissions were never actually changed, except for the period they were in Rox.
    —————————–
    When doing comparative testing, I used Debian 10 “Buster” install media (live bootable USB flashdrive) and performed the same test – they opened as normal “read & write” text files.

    I installed Debian 10 “Buster” on SSD on that same laptop and configured it with the same applications and settings in antiX – to replicate. The imported text files are recognized as “read & write”.

    Same result with MX test – “read & write” only.
    ————–
    I made new Beta bootable USB install media to rule out something having gone awry with the first install media (created in antiX 17 on the laptop where the 2 files were lifted from).

    Used the install media to try to find out where this started to happen – and there it was on Beta 2,3, Full and Base version, bootable USB install media, yet not in Deb10, antiX 17 or MX. Tried this same testing on different brand laptops some newer, some older models to rule out hardware, even though antiX and MX are on every one of my computers and run as expected.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by rej.
    #26443
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    rej

    Dave-

    Just as another test, in case this is useful information, I downloaded MX19 Beta 1, installed on HD and did nothing except set WiFi, update, configure power manager, changed some panel settings, added a few folders to Home/documents that were from MX 18, and adjusted the mouse.

    Next, installed Rox filer, same result – Rox filer saw the text files that were in my documents folder, that were pasted in before installing Rox, as “executable”. Thunar saw them as “read & write”.

    #26445
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    rej

    Dave-

    I opened an installation on HD of Debian 10 “Buster”, installed Rox filer and found the text files, again, as “executable” when opened in it. SpaceFM and Thunar saw them as “read & write”.

    ———
    Update: reinstalled Rox-filer in MX19 and Deb10 – text files only open with “Nano”, but could not set all to open with Mousepad or Leafpad – they need to be edited one by one and set the “run action”, but maybe there is another way. Sorry for the inaccurate information.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by rej.
    #26488
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    rej

    Don’t know if this is related to this issue and will post in regular beta 3 feedback –

    Control Centre – Desktop – Preferred Applications:

    Changed Video Player to “vlc.desktop” yet opens videos with “io.github.GnomeMpv.desktop”

    Changed Text Editor to Leafpad and still does not open an imported file at all in Rox filer, must right-click and select

    This occurrs in B3 Base install and Full version

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