- This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated Mar 22-3:45 am by Anonymous.
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oops
(Only antiX do that on the fly, I guess)
hmm, I’ve encountered at least two other distros which offer this feature.
Foggy memory, but I’m guessing they were Semplice Linux and GALPon MiniNo
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Also, Zorin Linux… and possibly one of the French distros. Voyager?Yes, but 3 or 4 distributions and respins on at least some thousands, with the ability to have the functionality of WMs on the fly it’s very few.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by oops.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by oops.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by oops.
Wallon
Dear all,
The translation is not easy.
For English speakers everything is obvious.
I have a very good example in this thread.
Robin uses the expressionJust my two pennies worthIt means absolutely nothing in French.
I would like to understand what it means because many English speakers use this expression ?
In French, for example, we say “Est-ce que le franc est tombé? Literal translation in English: Is the franc (monetary unit) fallen?
It means for french speaker, “Did you understand?”Best regards,
Wallonoops
“Just my two pennies worth” = “juste ma petite contribution” (c’est de l’humilité)
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by oops.
Xecure
Robin uses the expression
Just my two pennies worthIt means absolutely nothing in French.
It doesn’t translate well to barely any language. It means something like “These are my thoughts/opinion, as little as it may be worth (2 pennies)”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_two_cents
It is used to preface a tentative statement of one’s opinion. By deprecating the opinion to follow—suggesting its value is only two cents, a very small amount—the user of the phrase, showing politeness and humility, hopes to lessen the impact of a possibly contentious statement.I understand that this topic (The desktop session topic) sparks from searching for clarity, but there is no standard name for the graphical environment for a session, so “Desktop” (and its translations) that someone started to use (probably starting in the typewriter’s era) is the best we can use right now.
antiX Live system enthusiast.
General Live Boot Parameters for antiX.Robin
I feel highly honoured that I am already allowed to ride a bicycle with training wheels. 🙂
Windows is like a submarine. Open a window and serious problems will start.
marcelocripe
I feel highly honored that I am already allowed to ride a bicycle with training wheels.
Only I didn’t win a bike (laughs). Skidoo is full of games (laughs) …
(I will write seriously after the laughs …)
Hello guys,
Skidoo, it is not meant to be a “trivial” matter. It has to do with what was mentioned by everyone before you considered it “trivial” and still make the art super funny and share the “Law of triviality” by Poul-Henning Kamp.
Perhaps a brief comment can be made here … I don’t translate anything from English to Portuguese, the ones who translate are the internet translators. What I do is try to build understandable texts in Brazilian Portuguese so that I can understand and make it understandable to other Brazilians. However, doing this is not easy … For a good adaptation of the translation, it is necessary to understand the context, where and how these translated and adapted words will be used to make complete sense. For this to be possible, I need to understand the meaning of the translated words, understand the terminologies used in this “world of GNU / Linux distributions” (saw “GNU”, now I started to correct the text in quotation marks), I need to study about each subject treated, even if only superficially. In my opinion, communication can never be treated as something “trivial”. If an English term is poorly explained or out of context in antiX, that term will certainly be poorly translated into all other languages and communication will certainly not take place as it should.
Robin’s examples reinforce the need for care in communication and the inclusion of more language support, due to differences between the English language in the USA and the English language in Great Britain. The same occurs between European Portuguese in relation to Brazilian Portuguese. And as for the example of understanding the word “desktop”, in Brazil the proportion of Germany must be similar, but there are still people who do not know what “desktop” is or a Portuguese translation of “área de trabalho”. English language terms used in Brazil are usually poorly understood, there are cases of people who write in the same sentence in Portuguese, part of the text in Portuguese and part of the text in English. They are usually misunderstood by people who do not understand and do not read in English and therefore do not know what it means, so there is no communication. There are also those who want to demonstrate “wisdom” or “knowledge” using some terms in English in their daily lives and are usually pronounced by those who do not know how to speak English correctly, in these cases they are the reason for a joke by those who have mastery of the English language.
I thank everyone for their considerations that helped me a lot.
marcelocripe
(Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)———-
I feel highly honoured that I am already allowed to ride a bicycle with training wheels.
Só eu que não ganhei uma bicicleta (risos). O Skidoo é cheio de brincadeiras (risos) …
(Eu vou escrever sério após os risos …)
Olá pessoal,
Skidoo, não é para ser um assunto “trivial”. Tem haver com o que foi citado por todos antes de você considerar “trivial” e ainda fazer a arte super engraçada e compartilhar o “Law of triviality” do Poul-Henning Kamp.
Talvez cabe aqui um breve comentário … Eu não traduzo nada do idioma inglês para o português, quem traduz são os tradutores da internet. O que eu faço é tentar construir textos compreensíveis em português do Brasil para que eu possa entender e tornar compreensível para os outros brasileiros. Contudo, fazer isso não é nada fácil… Para um boa adaptação da tradução é preciso compreender o contexto, onde e como serão usados estas palavras traduzidas e adaptadas para fazerem sentido completo. Para isso ser possível, eu preciso compreender o significado das palavras traduzidas, entender as terminologias utilizadas neste “mundo das distribuições GNU/Linux” (viu o “GNU”, agora eu comecei a corrigir o texto entre aspas), preciso estudar sobre cada assunto tratado, mesmo que de forma superficial. Na minha opinião, a comunicação nunca pode ser tratada como algo “trivial”. Se um termo em inglês está mal explicado ou fora de contexto no antiX, este termo certamente será mal traduzido para todos os outros idiomas e a comunicação certamente não ocorrerá como deveria.
Os exemplos do Robin reforçam a necessidade do cuidado na comunicação e na inclusão de mais suporte a idiomas, devido diferenças entre o idioma inglês dos EUA em relação ao idioma inglês da Grã-Bretanha. O mesmo ocorre entre o português Europeu em relação ao português do Brasil. E quanto ao exemplo da compreensão da palavra “desktop”, no Brasil deve ser semelhante a proporção da Alemanha, mas ainda existem pessoas que não sabem o que é “desktop” ou tradução para português “área de trabalho”. Termos em idioma inglês utilizados no Brasil normalmente são mal compreendidos, existem casos de pessoas que escrevem em uma mesma frase em português, parte do texto em português e parte do texto em inglês. Normalmente são mal compreendidos pelas pessoas que não entendem e não leem em inglês e por isso não sabem o que significa, por tanto não há a comunicação. Tem ainda aqueles que querem demostrar “sabedoria” ou “conhecimento” utilizando alguns termos em inglês no seu dia a dia e normalmente são pronunciados por quem não sabe falar corretamente o inglês, nestes casos viram motivo de piada pelos que possuem domínio no idioma inglês.
Eu agradeço a todos por suas considerações que me ajudaram muito.
marcelocripe
(Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)
ile
me too first glance Thought about the training-wheels for myself.
Your reflect is how the world sees You.
I think Reflection is the best word, but
I think “Desktop” is the right word. opinion.proper nouns are not translated. foreign words italicized.
I hope you understand that my opinion of Reflect
demonstrate my understanding acceptance that
you may raise just the right word of your language, not DesktopThere is 1297 file names inside with the word desktop in my antiX19.
inside those files (?
8-|ModdIt
“Est-ce que le franc est tombé? = Has the penny dropped?.
At least well known for older UK generation. meaning: Have you understood at last.
Just my two pennies worth, Can not remember the equivalent my tuppence worth being
used around west midlands in my childhood. Not worth tuppence was widespread and
derogatory when used regarding a persons opinion.Regarding translation to UK English, as there are huge regional differences it is
not always easy to find words which are universally understood in the same way.It may be better for the distro to stick to a well known usage as an own definition.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by ModdIt.
seaken64
@marcelocripe, I understand that translation and communication is difficult. You are to be commended for your thoughtfulness and consideration of this difficult job. I’m sure users in all languages will benefit from your efforts.
However, on this topic of the desktop I share this opinion for your consideration –
The user has to take some responsibility for understanding. It will be impossible for the developers of any interface to achieve complete communication with every user, regardless of their mother tongue and cultural identity.
In my case, I did not come across the word “desktop” as a description of the interface until I started using Linux distros that focused on the “desktop” use of the operating system. (I don’t count the “Bob” debacle). I had to learn the meaning. I would have to ask myself “what does clicking on this do?” and “Why does clicking on this Change Desktop change my file manager and menu?” I would look at the menu and start clicking on the words in the menu and find out what happens. Then I would read up on why and what it means. Eventually, I came to understand – at least enough to be functional with the interface. I may never understand the exact meaning of the chosen terms or words, but I learn enough about the results for the menu choice to be meaningful for me.
I think you have to compromise to a degree and not be too technical in your translation. At least at the level of the interface. You may need to have more help text explanations of the idioms and cultural terms used in other languages and why certain words are chosen. But you can’t worry too much about the label chosen for the interface. Let the user do some work.
seaken64
In English, a Desktop is
in Murrica a desktop is someplace ta set muh beer yah
That was hilarious! At least once I understood it. I had to read it a couple of times.
American Redneck > English
In America a desktop is someplace to set my beer
seaken64
marcel, please understand that it is just a little humor injected into the topic, which of course is important to consider as part of the translation process.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by seaken64.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by seaken64.
Anonymous
If the “meaning” of this flyout submenu label, even without words, is not immediately clear as soon as the user hovers and sees the submenu items…
oops
If the “meaning” of this flyout submenu label, even without words, is not immediately clear as soon as the user hovers and sees the submenu items…
Not really either, there is no information if it is a switching “on the fly” or not, to know we have to click. 😉
Brian Masinick
Although in some respects it’s OK to inject humor, in fairness to a large percentage of our readers, as seaken64 has done, if we are sharing USA humor that even English speaking people who live in other countries may not really understand, I think that it is polite to note that American humor has been used,
To be honest, at first I didn’t get one of the recent comments until it was actually explained then I finally got it. Imagine my friend Marcelo Crepe, an intelligent person who lives in a completely different culture. He is very good at using language translation tools, but those tools simply cannot translate regional humor, so I politely suggest that while such things do not have to be excluded, perhaps either a “American humor” caveat, an explanation or a follow up note, saying that a previous message contained regional humor that may not be universally understood would at least alert a potentially confused reader to ignore the regional humor comments. Sound fair to others?
This is an encouragement to be considerate of others, whether we agree with them on all matters or not.
--
Brian MasinickI appreciate the comment Brian. But honestly, I think the same about interjecting humor in a thread as I do understanding the menus. The reader/user has to take some responsibility, and not be quick to take offense or give up easily if they don’t understand.
This is a pretty friendly place. It’s rare for someone to lash out in malice. Although such behavior may be found common in some other forums and visitors may get “gun shy” by experience, I think Marcel and others can understand that a little good-natured humor is not intended to discount their own important comments.
Nevertheless, I will abide by whatever you and other moderators may ask of us. Like I said, this is a friendly place and I would like to see it stay that way.
seaken64
cheeseandrice
Walking on eggshells ain’t my speed.
✓ ☑ ✘ ☒One loose end (upload to github the locale-aware version of slimski//SLiM) thenI’ll take a timeout and reflect on my “considerate of others”.___________________________________________
shrug
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