“Package Installer” only in English?

Forum Forums antiX-development Translations “Package Installer” only in English?

  • This topic has 49 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated Apr 6-12:27 am by marcelocripe.
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  • #57109
    Forum Admin
    anticapitalistaanticapitalista

    So should we not bother with fr_BE from transifex and only use fr_FR? (same question for nl_BE)?

    Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

    antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

    #57112
    Member
    AvatarPPC

    Hi, I’ve been away for a while… I don’t think my question deserves a new thread:

    @anticapitalista- should not the “Flash” entry be removed from the Package Installer, since it’s a deprecated tech?

    Great work, on getting not only the categories, but most package’s description translated, team! This will make antiX much more usable by non English speaking folks!

    off-topic- now if “time & date” and “set default applications” were next, the most essential configurations tools would be fully localized! Sadly Connman does not seem to be “localizable” 🙁

    P.

    #57115
    Moderator
    AvatarModdIt

    For CMST, the connman GUI a number of translations are listed on the GIT Hub page

    https://github.com/andrew-bibb/cmst/tree/master/translations

    #57124
    Member
    AvatarRobin

    So should we not bother with fr_BE from transifex and only use fr_FR? (same question for nl_BE)?

    I beleive it’s the other way around. We should have all country specific translations (four significant letter code) which are found by

    cat /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED | grep UTF-8

    present in antiX as well as on antiX project site in transifex. These are the languages supported by debian.

    It doesn’t matter whether then there will be “empty” languages with no translated strings at all present within the project, since in this case the locale mechanism employed by debian will use the non country specific (two-letter code) translation strings instead for all empty strings, and if these are missing also for a specific language the original string (English language in most cases, but meanwhile not necessarily) will be in use instead automatically on running antiX system.

    So it doesn’t count whether translations are marked by transifex as “ready for use” or not. Transifex is wrong in its presumptions about the state of readyness.

    If we have e.g. “fr” as a basic translation in transifex, we should make sure every string in there is translated. Thus in no french flavour will show up an original (English) string (as long the programs and scripts are prepared correctly) anymore. In the four letter code country specific derivates of “fr”, whichever that might be (fr_BE, fr_CA, fr_??), people will have to fill in only the very strings which they feel unnaturally sounding in their language. Not any other string should be touched, all the other strings which are OK for them in basic “fr” already should stay empty on purpose. The percentage of differences to the basic language (e.g. “fr”) can reach from one word only to 100% of the strings present. The language is still “ready for use”, even if there are possibly e.g. 10 strings filled in only.

    Since we can’t know, what people in foreign countries feel to sound strange in their native ears, it will be filled in over time, if they see there is a way to do it easily.

    So as a rule of thumb we should aspire any two letter language code to be filled in to 100%, but consider any country specific language (with four letter code) to be taken as “ready for use” allways, even if there are filled in only very few strings.

    This follows the standard behaviour (standard fallback mechanism) of gettext observed in debian.
    I couldn’t find a text source for this statement, but it works this way in antiX also, as you can easily check by removing or adding .mo files (partly filled in and fully filled in) to country specific and non country specific languages. People not familiar with the language system folder and -file structure in antiX might want to use aCMSTS to experiment with languages on an antiX Live System (19.x or 17.x) in order to get further insights what happens exactly when adding or removing a single string in a given language, and what is the result on the (translated) user interface of programs.

    You have to understand that even a nearly empty translation file can be everything what is needed to make all the difference in view of natural sounding translation against the base language in a specific country.

    Robin

    P.S.: All the “en” language flavours (en & en_??) should also be present, for three reasons:
    — Firstly in recent gettext the msgid doesn’t need to be in English language anymore, so you can’t any longer rely on the presumption English language is always available without need of being translated to.
    — Secondly this would make it easy to fix mistakes the programmer has made in his original English strings, simply by filling in the string in transifex for the “en” translation (leaving all correct strings empty simply). Think of non native speaking program authors also!
    — Thirdly we would be able to differentiate between variations in spelling and wording eg. between BE and AE (possibly not urgent, but anyway, somebody might feel like “correcting” to make antiX “sound” more familiar to him)

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Robin.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Robin.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Robin.
    #57140
    Member
    marcelocripemarcelocripe

    So should we not bother with fr_BE from transifex and only use fr_FR? (same question for nl_BE)?

    An Anticapitalista, Robin is absolutely right.

    According to site, data from the International Francophone Association report, estimates the number of French speakers at around 274 million. I do not believe that the French language is exactly the same in all parts of the planet.

    The Portuguese language is spoken in 9 countries:

    In Europe: Portugal

    In America: Brazil

    In Africa: Angola, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Mozambique, São Tomé and Príncipe

    In Asia: Timor-Leste

    According to the site, these countries total about 280 million speakers.

    However, each of these countries has its own accent and the words, even though they have similar spelling, have totally different meanings. I can quote the text in “pt” and the conversations I had with Portuguese users of antiX and MX Linux, our languages ​​have many differences and the values ​​of the words are different. For example, some words or phrases of mine may sound harsh, offensive or even disrespectful to the Portuguese, however this is not my intention, as the same words or phrases have different values, which can be aggressive in Portugal can be friendly in Brazil and vice versa. In the same way it occurs in the various states and municipalities of Brazil, the country is the fifth largest in the world in terms of territorial extension, so I cannot speak on behalf of another 211 million speakers of pt-BR. What I can say is that, within Brazil the same words have different meanings from region to region, which makes it very difficult to adapt the texts of the translations to be understood by most people, not necessarily by all, unfortunately.

    I think of antiX users, speakers of the Portuguese language from countries on the African continent and East Timor in Asia, as they do not have a four-letter version for their respective country, they are obliged to use the language “pt” or ” pt-BR “, as they are the only ones available. However, I believe that neither of these two languages ​​satisfy your eyes, because when you read the texts that are written in Portuguese (“pt” or “pt-BR”) and even then they do not make any sense for your local Portuguese language.

    Anticapitalista, it makes no sense to restrict or withdraw languages. For the beneficial growth of antiX, what makes the most sense is the increase in languages ​​and the availability of language variations by country. If we have a user from each country or town on the planet who can collaborate with the translation of everything that is possible on antiX into your language or your language, who will most benefit from this is antiX itself and consequently the people who use antiX .

    marcelocripe
    (Original text in Brazilian Portuguese)

    ———-

    So should we not bother with fr_BE from transifex and only use fr_FR? (same question for nl_BE)?

    Anticapitalista, o Robin tem toda a razão.

    Segundo o sítio, dados do relatório da Associação Internacional de Francofonia, estimam o número de falantes do idioma francês em cerca de 274 milhões. Eu não acredito que o idioma francês seja exatamente igual em todas as partes do planeta.

    Já o idioma Português é falado em 9 países:

    Na Europa: Portugal

    Na América: Brasil

    Na África: Angola, Cabo Verde, Guiné-Bissau, Guiné Equatorial, Moçambique, São Tomé e Príncipe

    Na Ásia: Timor-Leste

    Segundo o sítio, estes países totalizam cerca de 280 milhões de falantes.

    Contudo, cada um deste países possuem o seu próprio sotaque e as palavras, mesmo que possuem escrita semelhantes, possuem significados totalmente diferentes. Eu posso citar os texto em “pt” e as conversas que eu tive com Portugueses usuários do antiX e do MX Linux, nossos idiomas possuem muitas diferenças e os valores das palavras são diferentes. Por exemplo, algumas palavras ou frases minhas, podem soar duras, ofensivas ou até mesmo desrespeitosas para os portugueses, contudo esta não é a minha intenção, pois as mesmas palavras ou frases possuem valores diferentes, o que pode ser agressivo em Portugal pode ser amigável no Brasil e vise-versa. Da mesma forma ocorre nos diversos estados e municípios do Brasil, o país é o quinto maior do mundo em extensão territorial, por tanto eu não posso falar em nome de mais 211 milhões falantes do pt-BR. O que eu posso falar é que, dentro do Brasil as mesmas palavras possuem significados diferentes de região para região, o que torna muito difícil a adaptação dos textos das traduções poderem ser compreendidas pela maioria das pessoas, não necessariamente por todos, infelizmente.

    Eu penso nos usuários do antiX, falantes do idioma Português dos países do continente Africano e do Timor-Leste na Ásia, por não possuírem uma versão de quatro letras para o seu respectivo país, se veem obrigados a utilizar o idioma “pt” ou “pt-BR”, por serem os únicos disponíveis. Contudo, acredito que nenhum deste dois idiomas satisfazem os seus olhos, pois quando leem os textos que estão escritos em idioma Português (“pt” ou “pt-BR”) e mesmo assim não fazem sentido algum para o seu idioma Português local.

    Anticapitalista, não faz sentido restringir ou retirar idiomas. Para o benéfico crescimento do antiX, o que faz mais sentido é o aumento de idiomas e da disponibilidade das variações linguísticas por países. Se tivermos um usuário de cada país ou povoado do planeta que possa colaborar com a tradução de tudo que for possível no antiX para o seu idioma ou da sua língua, quem mais ganha com isso é o próprio antiX e consequentemente as pessoas que utilizam o antiX.

    marcelocripe
    (Texto original em idioma Português do Brasil)

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