Pentium 4 can be your daily driver (kind of)

[Member seaken64]

32-bit computing beyond the P-III 1Ghz with 512MB

For several years I have been experimenting with an old Pentium-III and Linux to see if I could keep the old machine useful. I have written about it often on this forum. This exercise has not been so much about doing serious work as it has been a hobby and having some fun trying to shoe-horn an old machine into the modern world. For the most part I have been able to keep this old machine doing useful things, even browsing the web. The most success has been with the antiX Linux distribution. It has been amazing to me that I can still use a P-III 1Ghz with only 512MB of RAM, which was first used in the year 2000, all the way into 2021, and soon into 2022.

Over the years I have acquired several more old computers through our normal upgrade procedures in our business. As we upgrade to new computers the old computers are sent out to pasture, many of them coming into my lab where I enjoy my hobby of playing with old computers. Last year I retired our last Pentium 4, which was holding on as a backup file server in my office.

I now had several Pentium 4 32-bit computers that I could experiment with. I decided I wanted to see what I could do with these 32-bit computers that were somewhat more powerful and capable than my favorite Pentium-III. I had been able to keep my P-III alive with only 512MB of RAM. What could I do with these P4‘s with from 1GB to 3GB of ram?

I had already learned that the old P-III would not handle cloud computing on sites like Google Docs. It also choked on the Firefox browser and a lot of my exercises were about finding alternate browsers that would work better than Firefox on this old equipment. Now I wondered if I could get better results with these P4‘s with more RAM. I embarked on an experiment to find out what these P4‘s could do on the modern web.

I chose my four best P4 computers and set them up with progressively more RAM and then I performed a series of tests to compare these machines. The four P4 machines are as follows, in progressive order from lower specs to higher specs.

ECS P4VMM2 P4 w/ 1GB RAM
2.4Ghz Northwood, 1GB DDR1, 80GB IDE, BIOS 2003

HP d220 MT P4 w/ 1.5GB RAM
2.67Ghz Northwood, 1.5GB DDR1, 80GB IDE, BIOS 2005

IBM ThinkCentre 8189MUD P4 w/ 2GB RAM
2.8Ghz Northwood, 2GB DDR1, 300GB IDE, BIOS 2004

Intel 915GEV P4HT w/ 3GB RAM
3.2Ghz Prescott, 3GB DDR2, 120GB IDE, BIOS 2006

After I started the tests I decided to add some more systems that fell somewhere between the P-III 1Ghz w/ 512MB and my best P4. I also added one system that is newer than my best P4. The added systems for this experiment are as follows.

Compaq Deskpro EN P-III w/ 512MB RAM (this is the P-III already spoken about above)
1Ghz Coppermine, 512MB SDRAM. 100GB IDE, BIOS 2000

Dell Dimension 4300 P4 w/ 512MB RAM (this is the earliest P4)
1.7Ghz Willamette, 512MB SDRAM, 40GB IDE, BIOS 2001

Dell Dimension 2400 Celeron w/ 1GB RAM
2.4Ghz Northwood. 1GB DDR1, 48GB IDE, BIOS 2003

HP zv5000 P4 w/ 1.25GB RAM
1.6Ghz Athlon XP 3000+, 1.25GB DDR1, 55GB IDE, BIOS 2004

Dell Dimension E521 w/ 2GB RAM (earliest 64-bit dual core, step up from P4HT)
1.9Ghz Athlon 64 X2 3600+, 2GB DDR2, 240GB SSD, BIOS 2007

This makes a full lineup of nine computers. Will any of these old computers allow cloud computing using Google Docs? If so, what will be the minimum requirement? We already know the P-III 1Ghz w/ 512MB won’t work with this task. What do we need to move up to to make this a usable application? Are any of these old computers capable of standing in as a daily driver?

The metrics used for this experiment included the following:

Time to boot from the Grub menu
Initial RAM used after startup
Disk space used after initial install and setup
RAM used for Firefox and a single tab on Google
Time to load Google Drive page ready for editing
RAM used on Google Drive with two tabs and editing single doc
Time to load single doc for editing
RAM used on Google Drive with three tabs and editing two docs
Time to load second doc for editing, two open docs
RAM used with Google Drive open with 2 docs and Local document open in LO/Abiword
Is the system snappy? or sluggish? Poor, Fair, Good?
Time to shutdown

I experimented with several distros, including antiX, MX, Debian, Q4OS, Bunsenlabs, Sparky, LMDE, Bhodi, and OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. On all of these computers there was no comparison to antiX in terms of RAM used. And overall snappiness was always good with antiX, even on the oldest computers and with the least amount of RAM. Some of these computers also run other distros very well, such as MX XFCE or Tumbleweed on the P4HT w/ 3GB of RAM. But after all was considered I have used antiX as the basis for a fair comparison between all of these machines. While some can run other distros fairly good they can all run antiX.

Here is a brief review of each of these nine computers, after which I will make a judgment about which systems, if any, could fill in as a daily driver in 2021.

[Note – as all but one of these machines is 32-bit I am using Firefox ESR as my browser for supporting Google Workspace. I use Chromium on 64-bit machines for Google Workspace but Chromium is not supported on these 32-bit machines. Google Workspace also does not like browsers like SeaMonkey or Otter-Browser, which are my usual browsers on these old machines]

1. Pentium III 1Ghz w/ 512MB
This is the computer I already know very well. I already know that this computer is not capable of being used on the cloud with Google Workspace. It cannot run Firefox good enough for Google Workspace. As a general computer, not including Google Workspace or other web centric applications it runs “fair”. Not snappy, but usable.

2. Pentium 4 1.7Ghz w/ 512MB
What about moving up to a Pentium 4 but with same RAM as the old P-III? Will that be enough to use Firefox and Google Workspace? No. The only advantage this machine has over the P-III is that it supports SSE2 and thus the current SeaMonkey version. This makes it a slightly better general use computer than the P-III but it still can’t do Google Workspace.

3. Celeron 2.4Ghz w/ 1GB
This Celeron is a crippled P4 and does not perform much better than the P-III. Even with 1GB of RAM it cannot be used with Google Workspace. It takes more than 2 minutes to load Google Drive and another 7 minutes to load a Google Doc for editing. Even as a general computer it is only slightly better than using the P-III. Like the first P4 it supports SSE2 and with more RAM than the P-III it is a little better than both the P-III and the first P4. But not enough to be impressed.

4. Pentium 4 2.4Ghz w/ 1GB
This machine is only slightly better than the above Celeron. Google Workspace can barely be used. It takes nearly a minute to load the Google Drive and an additional 1:30 to load a document for editing and another 2:00 for the second document. That’s between 4 and 5 minutes to load two Docs for editing. Way too slow to be productive. And the RAM used is over 800 so not much room left out of 1024. As a general computer it is better than the Celeron and it is a better choice over the P-III. But not good enough for Google Workspace.

5. Athlon XP 3000+ 1.6Ghz w/ 1.25GB
This machine is almost capable of running Google Workspace. It takes 0:31 to load Google Drive and another 0:33 to load the first document. RAM use is about 800 with these two tabs open. Another 1:07 to load a second doc in the third tab and RAM is over 900. With 1.25GB of RAM this does not allow much more room. It is better to do one thing at a time. Maybe you could edit one document. But it is not very productive. As a general use computer it is more snappy – not great but fair to good.

6. Pentium 4 2.67Ghz w/ 1.5GB
This machine is slightly better than the Athlon XP above, taking a few less seconds to load and the RAM used is over 900. With 1.5GB there is enough headroom in RAM. It is better than the P4 with 1GB of RAM and a little snappier. It is still not a great machine for Google Workspace but it is more bearable with this 1.5GB of RAM. It takes over 2.5 minutes to load two docs which is a little more than the Athlon XP but there is a little more RAM to work with. As a general machine it is also fair to good.

7. Pentium 4 2.8Ghz w/ 2GB
This machine is close to allowing using Google Workspace at an acceptable pace. It takes about 2 minutes to load two Google docs and the RAM used is about 942. The pace is about the same as the two machines immediately above but there is more RAM to work with. The general feel is also fair to good. This machine can also run more distros due to the larger RAM. It runs most other distros at “fair”, not snappy – but they run.

8. Pentium 4HT 3.2Ghz w/ 3GB
I have had this machine setup in my lab for several years. It is my best Pentium 4 and has Hyper Threading so it runs like a Dual Core and with the 3GB of RAM it can run most distros. I usually use MX XFCE on this machine. I also have Q4OS and Tumbleweed on this machine. This machine can run Firefox and Google Workspace at a comfortable pace. It takes about 1.5 minutes to load the two Google Docs and uses about 845 of RAM with antiX. As a general computing experience, including Firefox and Google Docs, it is a “Good”. It is snappy in antiX and close to snappy in MX and Q4OS.

9. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ w/ 2GB
This is the only machine in this line up with a dual core and 64-bit processor. It runs Google Workspace comparably to the P4HT above. I also tested 64-bit Chromium and it had the best results, taking about 1:18 to open the two Google Docs and using about 1024 of RAM in antiX 19.3 64-bit. It was about the same using Firefox in antiX-21 32-bit. This machine is snappy in antiX and rates “Good” as a general use computer.

So, what did my experiments reveal?

Will any of these old computers allow cloud computing using Google Docs? If so, what will be the minimum requirement?

Yes, a Pentium 4 with at least 2GB seems to be the minimum requirement for making use of Google Workspace. The single core P4 is still a little sluggish but with 2GB or RAM it is possible to use Google Docs and have a “fair” experience.

The P4 with Hyper Threading is the best 32-bit computer for Google Workspace. Of all the Pentium 4‘s in this lineup it is the best, and it is comparable to the true Dual Core Athlon 64-bit X2.

Are any of these old computers capable of standing in as a daily driver?

Yes, both the 32-bit P4HT 3.2GHz w/ 3GB and the 64-bit Athlon 1.9Ghz w/ 2GB are good enough to use a daily driver. They both run antiX very good and they both also run well with MX or Q4OS.

It is my opinion that you need to be able to work with cloud computing on your computers these days. Services like Google Workspace and Office 365, and others, allow you to collaborate and synchronize your efforts with a team or allow you to shift your work progress from one place to another. Yes, there are other ways to collaborate and synchronize. But cloud computing really makes it especially good for business people to get the most out of their office computer systems.

If your work routine is primarily office applications you can make it work with Linux and an older two threaded computer, even a 32-bit Pentium 4. If you can, you should try to secure at least a Dual Core 64-bit machine. But if all you can get is an old Pentium 4 don’t worry. Just put more RAM in it and use antiX or MX and you’ll be able to get your work done.

Seaken64

[Moderator christophe]

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Very nice writeup. Magazine quality, brother. 🙂

confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

[Member seaken64]

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Thank you christophe. I’ve been logging this experiment into my google docs spreadsheet for weeks.

I’ll be sharing some more on antiX versus other distros on these old machines. It’s really clear that there is nothing better than antiX on these legacy machines.

Seaken64

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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Very useful data – thanks.

The way I see it is that the Internet and Internet apps (cloud computing) are the biggest problem.
Running zoom/skype/google docs/MS Teams/MS online office is just not going to work very well, if at all.
The Internet/cloud computing is far too heavy (even MS10 with 4GB struggles using the above mentioned apps).

So, it seems to me that if you have old computers, you need to run them ‘the old way’.
It worked then and still works today.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member seaken64]

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Yes, I agree anticap. Having a “daily driver” means different things to different needs. I wouldn’t attempt Zoom or Teams on a Pentium 4. Heck, even YouTube is getting to be impossible. But if you DO happen to do more old-fashioned computing, like I do, then you can work with an older computer.

A lot of office work like documents and spreadsheets, even presentations and desktop publishing, can be done on lesser equipment and in the cloud even with an old P4 with the right setup. In our business we still do a lot of this old-fashioned computing, including database entry and backup, accounting, writing, spreadsheets, e-mail, etc.

I didn’t upgrade to iCore 5 equipment until last year. Before that we were using Core2Duo and Windows 32 bit.

Seaken64

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by seaken64.

[Member blur13]

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It is my opinion that you need to be able to work with cloud computing on your computers these days. Services like Google Workspace and Office 365, and others, allow you to collaborate and synchronize your efforts with a team or allow you to shift your work progress from one place to another. Yes, there are other ways to collaborate and synchronize. But cloud computing really makes it especially good for business people to get the most out of their office computer systems.

I couldnt agree more!

Yes, there are other ways to collaborate and synchronize

There are, but no one else will put up with them. You are more or less forced, these days, to use something like google docs. If ppl were prepared to use email, IRC, and LO for team efforts then 20 yr-old machines would work just fine. Its like trying to get ppl to switch from whatsapp/messenger to something more reasonable like Telegram (which can run in a CLI). More or less impossible, as they are so entrenched in their daily habits and networks.

[Member seaken64]

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@blur13,

If it were just me I would still be using Windows 2000 and antiX-16! (Okay, maybe not W2K!)

But I keep upgrading in our business because I have to keep up, or at least close, to modern computing techniques. Try installing Intuit QuickBooks on anything older than Win10. And they really prefer you to be on the cloud. And all our vendors use some sort of cloud storage. And Google Calendar and Email is a lot better than our old paper based calendar and Thunderbird.

But I do draw the line at Facebook! I let my wife take care of that. That annoys the hell out of me.

Seaken64

[Member PPC]

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Like stated above, any machine can be used as a “daily driver” depending on what you want to do…
For me, almost 100% of what I need to do can be done on a 32bits laptop with 1 gig of RAM although it’s not my daily driver.
Google E-mail and web calendars can be managed from Thunderbird- but that application uses a lot of RAM.
I can do editions using google docs or MS Office 365 free accounts- but not as smoothy as working with LibreOffice.
For modern web apps I would advise using at least over 1 gig of RAM and, ideally, at least a dual core.- using those specs, at least for now you can use probably any web app in existence- which is the single good out come from every single servince being “transformed” into a web app- you can run video streaming services, music streaming services, video game “remote play” services- like Google Stadia or the equivalent Microsoft service, Instant messengers, Video Chat services, Office applications (like google doc or MS on-line Office), or now, even Ms Windows itself (if you want to pay a small fortune for it) inside a web browser… Basically once Adobe’s products make the move to web apps, for the normal user there won’t be much difference if the OS is Windows, Linux or whatever.
In my case, for office work, and work with on-line pdf’s, almost any single computer that is able to run Firefox esr and LibreOffice will do for me.

P.

[Member seaken64]

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@PPC, I mostly agree. But as my data above shows I would suggest at least 2GB if one is looking to use web/cloud apps effectively. In my tests I could not get good results with 1GB. Having a dual core does make a difference but with 1GB there is not enough room to do more than one or two open tabs at a time. A little more headroom allows the OS to do some stuff in the background or keep the e-mail or calendar open while working on docs.

Seaken64

[Member blur13]

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Google E-mail and web calendars can be managed from Thunderbird- but that application uses a lot of RAM.

You are of course aware of this, but there are old school email clients that can handle gmail. I use Alpine. It runts in the terminal. Its easy to set up with your existing gmail account. A bit of searching online and you’ll find lots of tips n tricks to tinker with the multitude of settings. As for checking google calendar, there is the excellent gcalcli. Instead of having to launch firefox everytime to check my email and calendar, these two applications save me lots of time when using my old EEE pc netbook. If you listen to Spotify you can do so with minimal resources using ncspot. Its almost as light as cmus. Anyways, I digress. I guess the point is, like anticap said, if you use an old computer the way it was meant to be used, it will be lightning fast.

[Member PPC]

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@blur13 – sorry for the partly off topic post:
I was never able to use gcalcli- and I tried to follow the instructions on thie github- if I, that I think I’m a mid to advanced Linux user – can’t configure something at my first, or even second try, then I think it’s not uable for some 95% of the users out there 🙁
I tried to use cli e-mail apps, but I don’t really like them- I would rather use Claws, I’m too “addicted” to GUI applications (ence my drive to keep creating YAD based GUI’s to perform simple tasks in antiX – for example- it’s trivial to access google drive from any file manager (even cli file managers), but it’s not simple to configure it- that’s why I made a GUI script to take care of that- I’m aware that we can use many modern web services (like e-mail, instant messengers, translation services, music players, weather and news apps, even read epub ebooks) from the terminal, but most people won’t use that option if it’s too hard to configure or simply looks bad, like we say in Portugal- “The eyes also eat” [meaning “looks do matter”), sometimes at the expense of using more system resources…

P.

[Member seaken64]

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Again, I agree with @PPC. While I personally have an affinity for text based computing (as do many others here like @blur13) I did not consider using anything but a modern browser and the GUI interface of antiX. By far the majority of business users will need something close to the Windows or MAC point and click interface and will be most comfortable viewing a cloud site that is similar to the paradigm they already know. Most would not even understand that they can access their calendar and email outside of the computer provided by their office.

So, daily driver, in this case is really a “standard” desktop computer running common business apps on the cloud. And even with this in mind it is interesting to me that we can use an old Pentium 4 for this purpose, given the right circumstances.

Seaken64

[Member blur13]

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To use gcalcli you have to create an API for that app in https://console.developers.google.com/. That can be a bit tricky, but once its set up you can use the same set up on all your computers. There are tutorials online for this.

Yes, I think you are both right in that a “daily driver” for “the common people” requires a modern browser, at a minimum. But as PPC said “any machine can be used as a “daily driver” depending on what you want to do.” The fun part about linux is that it allows tinkering with old hardware. Its almost like a sport. Okay, I’ve got an ancient underpowered netbook, can I check my gmail and google calendar? Can I listen to spotify? Can I browse the web? (yes, sort of, with Links2). But yes, if I were to give my netbook to my neighbour it would be completely unusable to them.

[Moderator christophe]

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Its almost like a sport.

But yes, if I were to give my netbook to my neighbour it would be completely unusable to them.

I agree. Great way of stating it!

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by christophe.

confirmed antiX frugaler, since 2019

[Member seaken64]

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I did a couple more experiments with two more old computers, neither of which were on my first test since they did not fit into the “Pentium 4” class I was experimenting with. But since we are talking about the minimum for a daily driver I decided to do a quick experiment. My question was whether my comment about needing 2GB instead of 1GB was valid. I know this is subjective and that daily driver can be different for different people doing different things. But my hypothesis is based on doing daily “cloud” office computing, and maybe some simple audio and video. Here we go:

Computer #1 – HP Mini 110-3700 Netbook
Atom N455 Single Core Hyper Threaded, for two threads. 1.67Ghz w/ 1GB DDR3 RAM. 240 GB SATA Drive.
Running antiX-21-Full 64-bit (also runs 32-bit in another partition)

This machine supports Chrome and Chromium. I used Chromium for the tests. When browsing to Google Workspace it takes quite a while to open the page. It takes even longer to open a Google Doc for editing. Once it loads it is still sluggish to move around the doc, but it does edit the document. If I open a second document, now with three tabs open (one for Google Drive and two for two docs), the RAM is nearly exhausted at over 900 and swap is kicked in. There is no room left. If using Google Workspace this machine can only do one document at a time and nothing else.

As a general browser to the forum and opening the antiX menus and windows it is a fair experience. It is even better with SeaMonkey (but no Google Workspace support in SeaMonkey). I would say this experience is very similar to my Pentium 4’s with 1GB of RAM and worse than my P4’s with 1.25GB and 1.5GB. This atom processor, even though it is two threads, is not very different to faster 2.4/2.6/2.8 single thread P4’s

Computer #2 – Gateway MT6728 Laptop
Pentium Dual T2330, Two Cores, two threads, 1.6Ghz with 2GB DDR2 RAM, 150GB SATA Drive
Running antiX-21-Full 64-bit

I used Chromium for the tests. When browsing to Google Workspace it is not immediate but fast. The Google Drive page comes up in just a few seconds. It also loads a doc fairly fast and it is ready to edit in only a few seconds. With the three tabs open the RAM is at 1GB, But since this machine has 2GB it is not close to running low on RAM. I can also open other apps such as a local file manager or music player.

I put this machine ahead of all the previous Pentium 4’s including my P4HT 3.2Ghz w/ 3GB. It is about the same as the previous Athlon 64 X2 I used to compare to the others on my list. This machine runs Google Workspace just fine and can be a daily driver for this purpose.

The HP Mini is the only two thread machine I have with only 1GB. It does not outperform the P4 with 1GB, which I did not think was good enough as a daily driver. My guess is that it would probably be better with 2GB. My P4 with 2GB was also not impressive for Google Workspace but it is close to being a daily driver if you can put up with only editing one Google Doc. It is about the same with this netbook.

My conclusion is that 1GB is not really enough. I maintain that 2GB is the minimum for a daily driver for cloud office work. And a two thread machine is best. A single thread 2.8 Ghz P4 is barely manageable even with 2GB but it’s still better than an two threaded Atom N455 with only 1GB.

Seaken64

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