Pipewire without systemd

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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@stevesr0 – why don’t you start with an antiX-21 sid iso?

antiX-sid

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi anticapitalista,

Thanks for comment.

I believe I did – first with a runit net install, then with the sysvinit net install. I couldn’t get either of them to launch X (IIRC). It may be an issue with trying to get a live usb to run X from the unstable repos.

Then, I “backtracked” to a “regular” antix-21 net install to start with.

I have managed to get that to launch X.

Now that I have upgraded that to Sid and am getting the same error as with the sid isos (IIRC).

HOWEVER, having said that, I can always double check whether I get the same error by retrying a Sid iso again.

(Each time I do these, I am learning a little more about how to do it and what information to capture.)

stevesr0

(Edison is quoted as saying after his first 5000 tries a making a working lightbulb, “I now know 5000 ways NOT to make a light bulb.”)

[Member stevesr0]

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Update.

I can confirm that (in my hands <g>), using a live usb (net install) running Sid repos doesn’t launch X.

Today, I used the “regular” antiX-21 net install live usb and was able to launch X. But after updating, I no longer was able to. Then I tried the sysvinit antiX-21 Sid iso posted by anticapitalista on 22 January and that failed in exactly the same way as the stable version that I upgraded to Sid repos.

Running startx, both give an error message about not finding modules.builtin.modinfo in /usr/lib/modules/.

If anyone is successfully running a liveUSB of antiX-21 using Sid repos and able to launch X, please let me know <g>.

I shall have to regroup at this point and consider trying with a “fuller” iso…

Thanks to all who are reading this (especially if they offer advice <g>).

stevesr0

[Member stevesr0]

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Summary of Current Findings.

I can set up and launch X using the 4.9 kernel that comes with the net install with the stable repos.

However, whether I switch to the Sid repos or start with the Sid iso, I cannot launch X so far. The errors seem the same with either route.

Yesterday and today, I have tried remastering the live systems to use the 5.10.104 kernel which has worked well on my installed Sid system. That broke the resolveconf and /etc/resolv.conf setup and I could no longer do apt update.

So, I will try from the other end using a live usb with a full install and see if I can install the systemd-free Pipewire packages.

stevesr0

[Member stevesr0]

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UPDATE: I now am listening to music through Pipewire sound server on an antiX Sid live usb WITHOUT elogind.

LIMITS: It is on a particular customized/limited Sid system, that I might have trouble replicating.

How: (1) I cloned my installed Sid system that was successfully running Pipewire WITH elogind using
iso snapshot-cli.

(2) I made a live-usb of this snapshot.iso using live-usb-maker.

(3) I launched the live-usb on my Sid machine.

(4) I removed libelogind0, which removed my pipewire (and wireplumber) packages and elogind and libpam-
elogind.

(5) I downloaded the elogind free version of Pipewire packages that anticapitalista provided on 23 August.

(6) I used dpkg to install the debs.

(7) I started listening to music. (On VLC, the audio devices list Pipewire sound server as the selected
device.)

Caveats: I did not reboot between removing the old Pipewire packages and installing the new ones. I would like to make sure it survives a reboot, but I didn’t see an opportunity in iso snapshot or live usb maker to make persistence. Either I missed it (very likely) or when you launch live usb maker to use a snapshot iso, it doesn’t offer that choice.

I plan to leave my machine on for the rest of the day, hoping for advice from those knowledgeable about saving the changes. At worst, this went so easily, I could repeat it.

So, I hope people read this and ask questions and offer suggestions.

If any are interested in the limitations and “features” of my minimalistic installed system, I will be happy to discuss it. I am sure it can be improved, but it has been a fun toy so far.

stevesr0

[Member calciumsodium]

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Maybe step (8) make a new iso snapshot of this new system with the elogind free version of piperwire. Then save a copy of that snapshot iso before rebooting or shutting down. Then use the live usb maker to create the live usb of the new iso that contains the elogind free version of pipewire.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by calciumsodium.

[Member stevesr0]

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Update: I stuck in a second usb flash drive into the computer running the live snapshot and attempted to make a snapshot of the running snapshot. However, the program automatically selects the first usb drive (and says there isn’t enough storage to make a second snapshot…

So, unless there is a way to launch with an option to use a different drive, it won’t work.

I will let it run tonight…

Hi calciumsodium,

Thanks for the response.

That sounds plausible. (I am brand new to using iso snapshot. Only looked at it today, after I realized that I should try to use my existing install as a base for trying out the elogind free packages that anticapitalista provided in August.)

The other issue is that these packages are overwritten relatively frequently by updates to pipewire and wireplumber at this stage. I think it is necessary to block any updates to avoid problems (I plan to “pin” these packages and if necessary any library dependencies).

Once the development of Pipewire slows down to where it enters debian stable, then it (hopefully) will be feasible for new versions to be antiX-ized as with a number of other programs. If I could learn to do this for these 40+ packages, I would be happy to try.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by stevesr0.

[Member calciumsodium]

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stevesr0 wrote:

Update: I stuck in a second usb flash drive into the computer running the live snapshot and attempted to make a snapshot of the running snapshot. However, the program automatically selects the first usb drive (and says there isn’t enough storage to make a second snapshot…

So, unless there is a way to launch with an option to use a different drive, it won’t work.

In the iso snapshot window, there is an option to “Select a different snapshot directory”

Do you see it? See my attached picture.

Also, if you have enough ram, you can create the snapshot in the home directory of the live usb. I am guessing there is not enough ram.

Also, what compression to choose. I have used the lz4 and the xz methods. If you want quick compression and uses less cpu, use lz4. But the iso file will be compressed to a lesser extent (bigger iso file). If you use xz, then it will use a lot of cpu power but you get a greater compression (smaller iso file).

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by calciumsodium.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by calciumsodium.

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[Member stevesr0]

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Hi calciumsodium,

Thanks for responding.

Because of my funky “minimalistic” X setup, I am using iso-snapshot-cli, which didn’t have that nice box. Eventually I thought to use option -h and it turns out that if you use option -d, you can enter a different place to hold the iso. Which I eventually figured out how to do.

Unfortunately…

When I use the fresh iso without a “heritage” of elogind and the pipewire/wireplumber packages that came from debian, “it don’t work”. I can see that one of the libwireplumber modules (logind.so) is missing and that might be the problem, since the modified pipewire/wireplumber package works ok after libelogind0 and elogind and libpam-elogind are gone.

I managed to copy the missing module into the “second-generation” directory it was supposed to be in, but quitting and restarting X did not result in it working.

I am going to PM anticapitalista about this and maybe a revision that includes the logind.so module will work (assuming it is not forbidden as an “undercover agent” for systemd. I assume that seatd and libseat1 which are installed might be enough for that module, but – hey – I really don’t have a clue.

Long day playing with this – lucky I am retired and this was supposed to be a day of rest (wife’s decision).

I will wait a bit to hear from y’alls (Southern talk) how I might fix this, or at least move it along a bit.

Best to all for a nice weekend.

stevesr0

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi all,

Some pipewire nosystemd versions have reached Sid. (Thanks anticapitalista and Devuan)

After installing these, I ran

sudo apt remove -s libelogind0

Only a few packages were listed for removal!

Most of these are NOT obviously needed on my minimalistic Sid system (libapt-inst2.0, libapt-pkg5.0, at-spi2-core, libpolkit-gobject-elogind.-1-0). In addition, elogind and pam-elogind would be removed. I will try removing these and then see what a simulated removal of libelogind0 pulls out.

The most recent vlc upgrades are from nosystemd to systemd versions (vlc and vlc-plugin-base) and these would also be removed. I may wait until the next vlc upgrades to nosystemd versions occur before removing these, but I can live without vlc for a while if it will mean I can run pipewire without systemd stuff.

With the newest pipewire nosystemd packages, VLC is still playing thru Pipewire-Alsa.

I will report back after removing the packages dependent upon libelogind0 and elogind.

(I realize that others may have already successfully tested this with antiX-22. Speak up and be recognized!!)

stevesr0

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Wow!
Congratulations!

--
Brian Masinick

[Member stevesr0]

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hi Brian,

It ain’t me who deserves congratulations.

Back in January, anticapitalista placed “beta” pipewire packages on Sourceforge for testing. At that time, I couldn’t get anywhere (remember I am both a permanent noobie and old).

Tonight I saw that there were a bunch of Pipewire packages that were labelled nosystemd (and looking at the history, the previous most recent versions were as well).

So, after my last post, I deleted all the packages EXCEPT for vlc and vlc-plugin-base and libelogind0 itself and installed libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0.

After a fresh boot, VLC could no longer use Pipewire?!

So, I looked to see if I was missing something and realized that I didn’t have consolekit or libconsolekit1 installed. After installing them and performing a fresh boot, VLC was able to play thru Pipewire!

(There is also a libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 package, but it wasn’t compatible with the other consolekit packages – yet.)

So while I haven’t gotten rid of libelogind0 yet, I will try removing it in the near term even if it costs me (temporarily) the use of VLC.

Way to go, anticapitalista!!

stevesr0

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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Thanks for giving anti the proper credit.

Still it’s great that you have a solution or upcoming solutions!

--
Brian Masinick

[Member ModdIt]

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Hi stevesr0,
anticapitalista recently pointed out that VLC requires systemd package problem should not occur
unless a backported package is involved.

A simulated install confirmed the fact as expected.

At present I find the results from SM tube are fine and with less CPU loading so did not reinstall VLC on
my newly setup antiX sid setup with runit. I am using pure alsa.

Very grateful for work of anticapitalista and all others involved for such a great setup without
systemd involved.
Except for some references to manpages I have no more references to poetterings madness
when system is searched.

• This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by ModdIt.

[Forum Admin anticapitalista]

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I moved the systemd/elogind free pipewire and wireplumber debs into sid/nosystemd and testing/nosystemd since those that use it (I don’t) need to let me know if it works, works well, mostly works etc without systemd/libsystemd0, elogind and libelogind0.
Thanks for the feedback.

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

antiX with runit - leaner and meaner.

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