Pipewire without systemd

[Member olsztyn]

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stevesr0 wrote:

Tonight I saw that there were a bunch of Pipewire packages that were labelled nosystemd

@ Stevesr0:
I must say it is impressive that you pursue this challenging project and with great success as it seems. I greatly appreciate this effort as I am also very interested in this new frontier even if I do not have any immediate needs that would require pipewire. I should be able to join soon experimenting and if things go as successful for me as they are for you I will probably make it a permanent baseline on my system.
From the quoted note it seems that anticapitalista is also supporting this effort, updating files in the background…

My concern is (not directly about pipewire technology) that in Linux world it becomes increasingly difficult to hold systemd-free and *elogind*-free line. More and more system components and application packages seem to be forced into systemd, elogind dependency, which adds lots of extra effort for anticapitalista to keep up with these.

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi olsztyn,

I hope you are able to try the Pipewire packages without systemd dependencies. Right now, they are only available in testing and Sid.

People using antiX-22 are in the best position to immediately use these Pipewire packages (at least those running antiX-22 Sid.

My current setup is a from – net version that I just added things to in order to stay “minimalistic”. It is a nonstandard collection of stuff, but happily has continued working without a significant problem. Of course, my usage is kind of basic.

re your comment:

My concern is (not directly about pipewire technology) that in Linux world it becomes increasingly difficult to hold systemd-free and *elogind*-free line. More and more system components and application packages seem to be forced into systemd, elogind dependency, which adds lots of extra effort for anticapitalista to keep up with these.

I totally agree. Hopefully the nonsytemd distros will be able to share stuff and thus help each other deal with the systemd steamroller.

stevesr0

[Member olsztyn]

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stevesr0 wrote:

My current setup is a from – net version that I just added things to in order to stay “minimalistic”

I will probably start from base. Not much difference though (Just WiFi I believe). I got spoiled by Full so it will be a significant learning curve for me, starting without X…
It will take me some time to go over this learning curve but my thinking is that with antiX related components developed by anticapitalista in SID, this will be a good step towards antiX 23 as well. Hopefully anticapitalista will consider pipewire for antiX 23, based on your successful tests but I am not holding breath.
One way or another congrats on your accomplishment with pipewire…

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Member stevesr0]

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CAUTION:

Today’s Sid upgrades include new pipewire packages which are NOT systemd-free. So, if you ware trying to use systemd-free pipewire, don’t upgrade these.

stevesr0

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@stevesr0: Thank you for the information!

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Brian Masinick

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi all,

Deleted vlc and vlc-plugin-base and libelogind0.

Neither PAVU or alsa could use Pipewire. From terminal, alsamixer produced error message “can’t find host”. After reinstalling libelogind0, both work.

Didn’t try invoking pavucontrol from terminal until after reinstalling libelogind0. When I did initiate it just now, it launches fine, but the terminal has an error,

(pavucontrol:2988): dbind-WARNING **: 14:36:39.940: AT-SPI: Error retrieving accessibility bus address: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files

Since I was advised (IIFC) that consolekit might be needed in addition to seatd, I checked the packages related to these and found one that is not installed for lack of an available package.

It is libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0.

sudo apt install -s libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 : Depends: libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 (= 0.105-26.0nosystemd3~really25.0) but 122-1.0nosystemd1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

The package 0.105-26.0mosystemd3~really25.0 is listed as an alternative version to the currently installed 122-1.0nosystemd1 version.

Not sure what to do at the moment (or even if resolving this conflict and installing the backend package will enable the elimination of libelogind0). Have to root around the forum and hope that some knowledgeable person(s) provide pointers…

stevesr0

[Member stevesr0]

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Update:

Two libpolkit packages (libpolkit-backend-1-0 and libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0) cannot be installed because they are dependent upon version 0.105-26.0nosystemd3~really25.0 of a package (libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0) that is now at a newer version (122-1.0nosystemd1). These libpolkit files are packaged by Devuan, not anticapitalista. I looked at the Devuan forum site (Dev1Galaxy) and didn’t see any discussion of this. I will register there and post about this.

stevesr0

[Member stevesr0]

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Note: Started a thread regarding polkit and consolekit re: substitute for systemd.

Advised on the Devuan forum that the “missing” polkit libraries weren’t being used beyond the equivalent of oldstable Debian and that in another nosystemd distro (Alpine Linux) that startd was able to support Pipewire.

Will continue thrashing through the wilderness…

Perhaps an antiX-22 Sid with Pipewire live usb will just work. I will try and report back.

stevesr0

[Member olsztyn]

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stevesr0 wrote:

Perhaps an antiX-22 Sid with Pipewire live usb will just work. I will try and report back.

Just want you to know that your work is greatly appreciated. Thank you. I trust you will succeed in making this work. I am very much interested but am just at the beginning of the learning curve…

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi olsztyn,

Thank for comment.

I realized that I don’t hardly understand how seatd/libseat1 are supposed to work in enabling Pipewire in Xorg, so I just posted a question about that to the seatd/libseat1 developer.

In addition, I saw a post that without modification,seatd/libseat1 only supports pipewire-media-session, NOT wireplumber. I will look at the “fix” for that and see if it is within my “paygrade”.

stevesr0

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@stevesr0: Thanks for all of the wonderful efforts you have been putting into this.

I’m not familiar with the underpinnings of the components you’ve been recently interested in, so I don’t have much to share or comment on in that regard.

I am, however, interested in finding out if you’ve continued to be successful in your attempts to keep your personal Sid implementation “systemD” free, or if, accidentally or intentionally, you’ve had to succumb to systemd or if you’ve been able to keep it “clean” in that respect.

I was thinking about this because of the recent struggles a few others have had in taking the antiX Sid image and adding packages to it. From what I’ve seen, at least one of those images was able to run on the processor in which it was constructed, but I’ve seen limited success in the Sid area in using the same media to create an image that will also boot on other images, or can be shared with others. Have you attempted to run any of your efforts on multiple systems?

I’ve tried two or three of the images that BobC has created, and we’ve not been able to share any Sid efforts across our systems. I have, many times, been able to take antiX USB devices created on one system and reuse them on two or three other systems, but these were STABLE antiX snapshots, NOT Sid snapshots, hence my question and interest.

anticapitalista himself stated that it’s not a problem to use a Debian Sid distribution and move it around; it CAN and HAS been a challenge to seamlessly use and exchange systemd free images until all of the systemd free components are included in the Sid image.

What’s been the extent of your work, and what challenges have you spotted and overcome so far – or what are you finding to be personal impediments?

It’s times like this that I occasionally wish my technical skills were still up to date; alas, I’m several years out of date with current technology; otherwise I’d be tempted to build a few systemd free tools myself and help out this effort. I certainly WILL assist in the evaluation and testing process as this work progresses!

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Brian Masinick

[Member stevesr0]

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Hi Brian M.,

Thanks for the complimentary words.

I have been following the thread about Sid isos.

I have to believe that the “stability” of my system is (a) mostly due to it being a very simple setup and (b) taking care to not add packages with systemd dependencies. In addition, I have generally been playing with Sid on one machine and only with one kernel at a time.

Unfortunately, this means there is no guarantee that something that works on my system will work on many others.

However, it also suggests that a “minimalist” graphic system might more easily be standardized for general use. I think there were comments to this effect on the Sid iso thread.

As to keeping an install systemd free, as Moddit and anticapitalista (and probably you and Bob C. and others) have said, you need to use a standard careful “screening” approach to any upgrades.

In my case, I run

sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade

then say no to doing the full-upgrade. Instead, I run aptitude which presents a list of the packages to be upgraded on the opening screen. All packages that DON’T involve a change from a nosystemd version to a “regular” version are ok to upgrade. I use

sudo apt-mark hold {package}

for any package that does change from a nosystemd version to a “regular” one.

Personal impediments.

1. I am terribly unskilled at looking or modifying source code, so I haven’t tried to fix problems by looking at package sources.

2. I don’t have a clear understanding of what is necessary to support the launch of Pipewire. If something works automagically (as when I reinstall libelogind0 without anything else and Pipewire works) and there are simple instructions to follow, I am fine (although VERY slow). For example, supposedly in antiX, either consolekit or seatd (together with libseat1) should provide support for running Pipewire. Doesn’t work on my one Sid system (as you say, that failure might be true only for this one computer).

Final thoughts
– if anyone wants to build a system from net, I would be delighted to correspond with them about it. The experiment might enlighten both of us and point to how to make things work with systemd-free Sid and Pipewire and perhaps ultimately with systemd-free Sid in general.

– It is frustrating that the successes that other nosystemd distros have had cannot readily be transferred to antiX (or I don’t know how to do it).

stevesr0

[Member olsztyn]

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stevesr0 wrote:

– It is frustrating that the successes that other nosystemd distros have had cannot readily be transferred to antiX (or I don’t know how to do it).

I think your project is more challenging than for other distros. To accomplish implementation for antiX is not just nosystemd but also *elogind*-free, which means no liblogind0.
This is way more difficult if I am not mistaken. This is why your accomplishment is way above those other distros…

Live antiX Boot Options (Previously posted by Xecure):
https://antixlinuxfan.miraheze.org/wiki/Table_of_antiX_Boot_Parameters

[Moderator Brian Masinick]

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@stevesr0: Since you have a working, minimal instance of antiX Sid, by any chance would you be willing to create a snapshot of your work that could be reused (without your account included) so that BobC and I could have a look?

We’re interested. He’s started a Sid instance; his version doesn’t work except for his system.

--
Brian Masinick

[Member drumanart]

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Hello.
Release: 11
Codename: bullseye

I’d like to connect SuprCollider (uses ALSA) to connect to Bluetooth. As Bluetooth connects over PulseAudio I thought pipewire could solve the issue.
So I’m trying to install pipewire through the PPA following this link:https://trendoceans.com/enable-pipewire-and-disable-pulseaudio-in-ubuntu/

First I get a API key warning:
gpg: keybox ‘/tmp/tmpj7cm4o5n/pubring.gpg’ created
gpg: /tmp/tmpj7cm4o5n/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created
gpg: key 25088A0359807596: public key “Launchpad PPA for SOURAV DAS” imported
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg: imported: 1
Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (>
gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.

Then when I try to install some libraries:

sudo apt install gstreamer1.0-pipewire libpipewire-0.3-{0,dev,modules} libspa-0>
Reading package lists… Done
Building dependency tree… Done
Reading state information… Done
Package pipewire-media-session is not available, but is referred to by another >
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
wireplumber:i386 wireplumber

E: Package ‘pipewire-media-session’ has no installation candidate
E: Unable to locate package pipewire-locales

pactl info
Server String: /run/user/1000/pulse/native
Library Protocol Version: 34
Server Protocol Version: 34
Is Local: yes
Client Index: 0
Tile Size: 65472
User Name: drumanart
Host Name: antix1
Server Name: pulseaudio
Server Version: 14.2
Default Sample Specification: s16le 2ch 44100Hz
Default Channel Map: front-left,front-right
Default Sink: alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo
Default Source: alsa_input.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo
Cookie: 7204:9fb7

Thanks for help Martin

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